New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

Which Contender`s Rifle has more chances of winning than others?


  • Total voters
    390

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,042
OFB was always meant to serial produce the selected AR which ever will come before in competing trails OEM had to transfer ToT to OFB anyway, Including OFB`s own, Besides OFB really don`t manufacture anything of its own rather get its parts via sub tenders of L1 bidders within local Private Industry, This includes ammunition ..

For Older SLR to Modern multical design available within India, Their is less probability that they would need to look elsewhere, Its obviously not a rocket science for them, If you don`t have something valuable to add better keep of conspiracy theory unless your evidence are solid ..

While most people over here are contemplating that OFB has designed a 7.62x51 rifle for Indian army ,there is a high probability that they have collaborated with an Indian company(which has collaborated with a foreign company) and therefore offering a "foreign rifle" to the RFP issued by the Indian army.

They must have feared that in case of some other rifle being selected the production would be transferred to the Indian private firm(collaborating with the foreign company) .So,they decided to collaborate with an Indian firm to remain in the race to be able to produce the rifles and ammunition themselves.

However,it could be possible that in absence of any company responding to their RFI ,they have gone ahead with their own design .Let's wait and watch.


The RFI issued by them:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...11-16.pdf&gws_rd=cr&ei=sfuKWIa8MMWFvQSXkZbYAw

Important parts:
This EOI is being issued for selection of partner for collaboration agreement for
production and supply of 7.62x51mm Assault Rifle .


The interested prospective collaborators shall approach OFB to ensure their response with details. The response shall necessarily be accompanied with details on company background, technical features/product performance preservation with capabilities, product catalogue, reference list, financial performance and other enclosures as required under the present EOI. Interested prospectives are required to submit 2 Nos. of 7.62x51mm Assault Rifles as advance returnable samples on No Cost No Commitment basis for internal evaluation.

A Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) shall be signed with the selected prospective collaborator before submission of bid against RFP to Indian Army / MoD. The licnese & technology collaboration agreement and the Supply Agreement shall be entered into with the selected prospective collaborator after receipt of contract by OFB from MoD.

The last date for receipt of responses is 09/12/2016. Your response may be sent to the following address.



PART – I: Eligible vendor/OEMs have to supply the World Class Assault Rifle with calibre 7.62x51mm. The Assault Rifle should be light weight, accurate and able to hit the target at a distance of not less than 500m. The Rifle should be able to work in all environmental condition and geographical terrain.

PART - II

Qualitative Requirement of 7.62x51mm Assault Rifle OFB seeks a 7.62x51mm Assault Rifle with adequate lethality to achieve the objective of ‘Shoot to Kill’ with the following board Characteristics: a) Effective Range: Minimum 500 meters.

b) Lethality: Adequate lethality at ranges up to minimum 500 meters in terms of wound profile, energy transfer and penetration.

c) Recoil: The recoil should be duly optimized to provide maximum comfort to the firer and shoot consistently with accuracy.

d) Accuracy: The Rifle should be capable of achieving accuracy better than 3 MoA up to a range of minimum 500 meters.

e) Reliability: The Rifle shall be reliable in its operation as per international standards for reliability.

f) Modular design.

g) Capable of fitting and firing of Indian in-service UBGL manufactured by Ordnance Factory Trichy.

h) Compatibility with all modern sights and accessories and provision for mounting the same.

i) In terms of design, metallurgy and performance parameters, the Rifle and Sight shall be ‘State of the Art’ in order to remain relevant for next 25 to 30 years.

j) The Rifle shall be capable of providing the desired performance across all spectrums of employment in the Indian terrain and climatic conditions.

k) The Rifle shall comply with the laid down MIL standards and other International standards in vogue.
 

hardip

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Messages
462
Likes
379
@Kunal Biswas
Sir can't we use FAL as DMR/sniper rifle ?
If the M14 :
I am reposting an example one member on another forum have suggested
M14


can turn into mk14 Mod 0 EBR


Why can these the SLR


Turn into something like this



Is not it convenient of IA to do something like this ??

yes.......IA have change this ....
time to gate up and remake all older version weapons in to Morden era Atlest...
 

ghost

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
1,234
Likes
2,455
OFB was always meant to serial produce the selected AR which ever will come before in competing trails OEM had to transfer ToT to OFB anyway, Including OFB`s own, Besides OFB really don`t manufacture anything of its own rather get its parts via sub tenders of L1 bidders within local Private Industry, This includes ammunition ..

For Older SLR to Modern multical design available within India, Their is less probability that they would need to look elsewhere, Its obviously not a rocket science for them, If you don`t have something valuable to add better keep of conspiracy theory unless your evidence are solid ..
Every company in manufacturing get its parts via other suppliers,TATA motors get various parts from suppliers .Does this mean that it does not manufacture that vehicle?Every manufacture source his parts from various vendors because making everything from A to B under one roof is neither feasible,nor economical.However, the original design and requirement is their own.

I have spent my valuable time to find the information and then post it here to share it with others,I have posted the original link and my observation based on that .Just because it does not tow your line, it does not lose its credibility!

Don't blame others for your failure to comprehend things.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,042
Your post loosed credibility when you start making assumptions into facts, Your observation is much of disinformation ..

It does`nt have to tow my lines, I have already mention in depth ..

I have spent my valuable time to find the information and then post it here to share it with others,I have posted the original link and my observation based on that .Just because it does not tow your line, it does not lose its credibility!

Don't blame others for your failure to comprehend things.
 

ghost

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
1,234
Likes
2,455
Update:
Last date for the Expression of Interest for 7.62x51mm ASSAULT RIFLE was extended upto 31.01.2017 by RFI.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...i.nic.in/&gws_rd=cr&ei=H-uSWPXfIornvATlioaoDA

Now certain 7.62x39mm assault rifles have been imported for trials in November 2016,who is undertaking these trials Army,Crpf,Itbp etc I don't know.I only know that these rifle have been imported for trials recently in 7.62x39mm:
http://www.infodriveindia.com/india-import-data/rifle-import/hscode-93039000-report.aspx

CZ 807


ARSENAL AR-M1



Zastava M70B3MH { this is M70B3 but the rifle imported is M70B3MH which would be specific variant for India but photos are not available)



GILBOA M43






Indian army officers visited GILBOA factory in Israel on july 2016.(I think they might be from CRPF )
 

Rchauhan

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2016
Messages
91
Likes
212
Country flag
Update:
Last date for the Expression of Interest for 7.62x51mm ASSAULT RIFLE was extended upto 31.01.2017 by RFI.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...i.nic.in/&gws_rd=cr&ei=H-uSWPXfIornvATlioaoDA

Now certain 7.62x39mm assault rifles have been imported for trials in November 2016,who is undertaking these trials Army,Crpf,Itbp etc I don't know.I only know that these rifle have been imported for trials recently in 7.62x39mm:
http://www.infodriveindia.com/india-import-data/rifle-import/hscode-93039000-report.aspx

CZ 807


ARSENAL AR-M1



Zastava M70B3MH { this is M70B3 but the rifle imported is M70B3MH which would be specific variant for India but photos are not available)



GILBOA M43






Indian army officers visited GILBOA factory in Israel on july 2016.(I think they might be from CRPF )
As per the RFI the request is for 7.62x51 Rifle , can they select any other rifle (the once above are 7.62x39) ?
 

ghost

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
1,234
Likes
2,455
As per the RFI the request is for 7.62x51 Rifle , can they select any other rifle (the once above are 7.62x39) ?
Here RFI is meant for Rifle factory Ishapore ,which is looking for a collaboration with a private company for Indian army standard assault rifle RFI(Request for information) in 7.62x51mm.

The 7.62x39mm assault rifle trials(photos) is not related to the one above(7.62x51mm).It is for different requirement,most probably different force.
 

ezsasa

Designated Cynic
Mod
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
31,905
Likes
147,984
Country flag
Here RFI is meant for Rifle factory Ishapore ,which is looking for a collaboration with a private company for Indian army standard assault rifle RFI(Request for information) in 7.62x51mm.

The 7.62x39mm assault rifle trials(photos) is not related to the one above(7.62x51mm).It is for different requirement,most probably different force.
Where did you get the part RFI = rifle factory ishapore?

This is a global RFI, if I am not wrong.
 

ghost

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
1,234
Likes
2,455
Update:
Last date for the Expression of Interest for 7.62x51mm ASSAULT RIFLE was extended upto 31.01.2017 by RFI.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...i.nic.in/&gws_rd=cr&ei=H-uSWPXfIornvATlioaoDA
Where did you get the part RFI = rifle factory ishapore?

This is a global RFI, if I am not wrong.
I was talking about expression of interest for a joint collaboration with private company by Rifle factory Ishapore (RFI) ,so that they can apply for the RFI (REQUEST FOR INFORMATION)for 7.62X51MM with the rifle provided by that company.Go through the link I have provided and my previous post and link in this thread .
 

ezsasa

Designated Cynic
Mod
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
31,905
Likes
147,984
Country flag
I was talking about expression of interest for a joint collaboration with private company by Rifle factory Ishapore (RFI) ,so that they can apply for the RFI (REQUEST FOR INFORMATION)for 7.62X51MM with the rifle provided by that company.Go through the link I have provided and my previous post and link in this thread .
Good find...
But i think no foreign OEM would be stupid enough to collaborate with RF-I on this tender, simply because Rifle factory do not hold any cards..
 

sthf

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2016
Messages
2,271
Likes
5,327
Country flag
Bulgarian AKs were/are great for IA &CAPFs and were bought dirt cheap if I remember correctly. But why is ghatak not replacing the older AKs?
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,042
Is this, What is all about >>

http://rfi.nic.in/doc/TENTATIVE_REQUIREMENT_OF_RFI_FOR_ITEMS_FOR_2017-18.pdf

I was talking about expression of interest for a joint collaboration with private company by Rifle factory Ishapore (RFI) ,so that they can apply for the RFI (REQUEST FOR INFORMATION)for 7.62X51MM with the rifle provided by that company.Go through the link I have provided and my previous post and link in this thread .
Good find...
But i think no foreign OEM would be stupid enough to collaborate with RF-I on this tender, simply because Rifle factory do not hold any cards..
 

ghost

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
1,234
Likes
2,455
Good find...
But i think no foreign OEM would be stupid enough to collaborate with RF-I on this tender, simply because Rifle factory do not hold any cards..
I think no one has responded ,that's why they had to extend the deadline.To be honest ,I think any company collaborating with govt agency would have an upper hand since MOD would be more favorable towards its own agency.


Bulgarian AKs were/are great for IA &CAPFs and were bought dirt cheap if I remember correctly. But why is ghatak not replacing the older AKs?
I think ghatak was rejected by the army or maybe it is also competing along with the others.


Interested prospectives are required to submit 2 Nos.of 7.62x51mm Assault Rifles as advance returnable samples on No Cost No Commitment basis for internal evaluation.

A Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) shall be signed with the selected prospective
collaborator before submission of bid against RFP to Indian Army / MoD.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...11-16.pdf&gws_rd=cr&ei=sfuKWIa8MMWFvQSXkZbYAw
 

sthf

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2016
Messages
2,271
Likes
5,327
Country flag
@ghost So is it safe to assume to geniuses at OFB botched up AK, something which was supposed to be "unbotchable" or the army brass is up to its usual tricks?

Either way, despite this some people will keep singing paeans about OFB.
 

ghost

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
1,234
Likes
2,455
@ghost So is it safe to assume to geniuses at OFB botched up AK, something which was supposed to be "unbotchable" or the army brass is up to its usual tricks?

Either way, despite this some people will keep singing paeans about OFB.
Talking about people, you would like to hear what our honorable Defence minister,who is from engineering background and knows a thing or two about manufacturing and quality has to say about them:
"Local chari community( goan community) probably make better arms than many of the OFB factories"
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ar-parrikar/articleshow/55015315.cms?from=mdr

Army might have a prejudice towards OFB,but once bitten twice shy.

@Gessler

I think ,I have an Idea of what's going on.My informed guess:

1 A 7.62mm assault rifle would be adopted as standard issue for Indian army.(High chances of galil ace)

2 A 5.56mm carbine most probably m4 or galil ace would be adopted by the army.

3 A 7.62mm LMG will be procured.

4 7.62x39 would be adopted by CAPF(itbp,crpf,Bsf) +50% chances for RR.


IMHO a different carbine procurement that too in a different caliber than standard issue would be stupid.Instead of carbine ,they should procure a SBR version of whichever 7.62 Nato rifle is procured to be the standard issue.






I would also like to point out that Indian made SLR was not licence produced but a reverse engineered mix of British l1a1 SLR and FN fal.


I am surprised by your and others fascination for SLR ,it was good for its time but now IMHO a much better rifle can be made from ground up,with better barrel (design/metallurgy) ,better trigger group,better bolt carrier design,Incorporation of new system to minimize recoil,better muzzle-brake,and a much better furniture overall.You can take inspiration from SLR in parts ,but thinking of incorporating the SLR with a modern furniture does not make sense to me.

Regarding new 7.62x51mm rifle on ghatak platform ..................best of luck to OFB.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,042
7.62X51mm rifle will be on MICWS and Not a Ghatak ..

Ghatak is not a platform its or host other calibers, Its design is limited to one type of ammunition ..

================

I wonder in last 3 years, their have been very different requirements set by some people in armed forces & These requirement came out as soon as the former requirement are ready for fielding, The ones which completed the trails remain ideal for next so many months until they become obsolete or rejected without any cause, This is harmful for nation as well as military so does wastage of tax payers money ..
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top