New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

Which Contender`s Rifle has more chances of winning than others?


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Kunal Biswas

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One cannot modify the firearm in service, But factory made that is from OFB and such as one already being used on one of their own sniper prototypes ..

How about Two stage triggers available in the market? Can't we orders one?
 

sthf

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@Vayuputra

Dude don't approach the MOD or Army directly if you have good designs, instead look up for the private sector manufacturers who have recently received small arms manufacturing licenses but have no experience and were probably going to import.

If your designs pass the muster, let them deal with the bureaucratic circus.
 

AbRaj

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One cannot modify the firearm in service, But factory made that is from OFB and such as one already being used on one of their own sniper prototypes ..
Thanks ,
Wait, so they are already working on it?
Any pic available ?
 

ghost

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Apart from that, I think a modified barrel too would improve its accuracy over longer distance a lot. Right now its a battle rifle which fired the full powered 7.62 NATO round. In other words its an enlarged version of AR. To be a DMR we do need to increase its accuracy over distance. Rifling the barrel should help in this regard or am I missing something?
IMHO SLR have 1:12 twist rate with 21inch barrel in 7.62x51 which is suffice,rifling barrel or to say reducing twist rate will increase accuracy but also increase pressure,barrel wear and tear while the increase in accuracy would be negligible.The ideal twist rate for 7.62x51 is 1:12 even FN 17 barrel have it,so it is not an issue.

In my perspective as a enthusiast, today we can build a much better DMR from ground up with improved reliability,accuracy ,modular,ergonomics and weight.So,we don't need to spend too much money or time on SLR.

However few basic things that are required to convert SLR into a proper DMR are:
Free floating barrel

Hand-guard to accommodate free floating barrel .



Picatinny Rail to mount various optics



Lighter trigger.



Adjustable stock with cheek rest.


Bipod


End product.








.
 

ghost

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Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain

As a military professional my focus towards the basic personal weapon of the Indian Army and the Infantryman's mainstay was missing for almost thirteen years after I was commissioned. I was happy with the 7.62 mm Self Loading Rifle (SLR) as it was a far cry from the .303 that I had seen and fired as a youngster when my father was commanding our unit.

The issue of personal weapons finally caught my fancy when I rejoined my unit in Op Pawan (Sri Lanka/IPKF). We had a few captured 7.62 mm AK 47s which were reserved for the Ghatak platoon and for a couple of scouts while we conducted jungle bashing.

The captured AK series, worn and grimy from LTTE over use, carried a romantic aura about it. The greatest thing was that it could fire in automatic mode. Why is that important? In the jungle or urban terrain, response at close quarters is a recurring phenomenon. Automatic high rate of fire from a weapon with an enhanced capacity magazine has far greater chances of success, especially in the crucial two minutes of the first contact.
In Op Pawan the Army's leadership was dynamic in response, even though resources were still of the socialist order. Since AK 47s were not easily available the Ordnance factories quickly gave us 7.62 mm SLR 1C, a modified rifle with a slightly shortened barrel and surgically intervened breach blocks to give a burst capability. My first success in an ambush was with this weapon which I found ingenuously outstanding given the resource position of those days. The only problem with Model 1C was that it overheated very early.

By the Nineties I found myself attending meetings in Army Headquarters about the upcoming wonder, the 5.56 mm INSAS Rifle and family of small arms associated with it. It had artificial furniture and plastic see through magazines which looked very fancy. The feel appeared good and it was a novelty. I felt a change from the aging 7.62 mm SLR would be advantageous. Although I had an experience with 5.56 mm caliber, in the thick jungles of the Wani in Sri Lanka I continued to live by some dictums which I had learnt at the academy but never applied in my mind thereafter. I
n one instance I saw one of my 'bhullas' (Garhwali soldiers) peppered with six rounds fired by an LTTE cadre from an M-16 (5.56 mm) assault rifle. M-16s were popular in Sri Lanka; in fact anything could be popular after the 7.62 mm SLR. But this 'bhulla' was running around attending to casualties and least concerned with his injuries. Six bullets in his abdomen did not trouble him until I forced him to start acting like an actual casualty. That is the day I lost confidence in the 5.56 mm variety of small arms. It is true that the terminal effect is dependent on the range at which a bullet is fired and the amount of explosive content it contains. Yet, somehow a mindset seemed to grip me on this.

Why am I discussing all this? The reason is simple; the INSAS family which never really matured is now on the way out. In J&K too it is the AK-47 which is depended upon. But the easing out can only happen once the leadership of the Indian Army can finally decide what family of small arms it wants as its next generation small arms weapon system. Reportedly, this issue will be discussed at the ongoing Army Commanders' Conference this week. It's been discussed before but a dilemma seems to be gripping the minds of the leadership. The higher leadership comes from my generation which was taught that in battle it is far advantageous to maim or injure your adversary rather than kill him. That forces the adversary to deploy men to tend to the casualty, carry him out to a safe place, evacuate him to the rear areas and thereafter perhaps care for him for life. All this is heavy in resources at all stages, and resource depletion of your adversary is what you always aim in conflict. However, conventional conflict it appears is passé; hybrid is in and it caters for both situations - conventional and sub conventional. I can hold my own in a debate to justify the return to 7.62 mm caliber with an appropriate architecture and composition of the ammunition. The 7.62 mm also has a psychological effect on the adversary when the nature of fatal inflicted injuries is observed. However, anyone who knows small arms also knows that the parameters in consideration have to be weight (of weapon and ammunition), the recoil effect (can't have a horse buck at the shoulder), the range, the comfort of carrying and firing (ergonomics) and the length of the barrel. Throw in a couple more such parameters and the designer has more issues than he can handle. For me, recoil is a very important factor. In burst mode one can't afford only the first bullet hitting the target and the rest going astray.

I am not sure if there is a case for a compromise caliber such as 6.8 mm which some foreign analysts speak of. An examination of this would also be interesting. The Indian Army's dream personal weapon of twin caliber capability with changeable barrels to cater for different calibers has resulted in the acute delay in the final decision. There appear to be no takers for this variety which the General Staff had desired.


Many in the media are attempting to analyze the benefits of different calibers and other characteristics of small arms. This is interesting and a welcome change because the romance of military technology is usually associated with armour and artillery systems and not infantry weaponry. An issue which no one appears to have considered is the equipping of Infantry and other Combat Arms personnel with specialist small arms of a higher technical order than those of the personnel of other Arms. No doubt in conventional operations it is primarily infantry personnel who will require to use these weapons extensively in offensive/assault mode. Those away from frontlines would primarily be involved in defensive operations in rear areas. However, if the Hybrid variety of operations is considered there may be equally robust operations against well entrenched terrorists in rear areas. The issue to be considered should be the cost effectiveness of going in for one type of product across the board. No doubt uniformity in personal weapons contributes to the overall management of maintenance and logistics but this aspect need not be given undue consideration. The equipping of infantry units with a state of the art weapon which near about meets the dual parameters of both conventional warfare and hybrid operations would be the most recommended option.

Some inexperienced analysts are speaking of 1000 meter range for infantry small arms; they also appear to be mixing all this with the need of sniping which is a completely different domain. Effective ranges for infantry small arms have almost always revolved around the 300 meter mark with increase to 500 meters with stabilization due to a bipod and some more due to tripod stabilization. A target acquisition device in the form of a latch on telescope and an accuracy enhancer in the form of laser assistance are almost mandatory in the modern world.

The AK 47 type of options of burst rapid and controlled burst fire along with single shot continues to be the favourite. Indian infantrymen operate very largely in the mountains and jungle terrain and therefore the weight of the weapon and its ammunition must remain important considerations. A weapon upwards of 4 kg would not be acceptable. In fact sub 4 kg with all latch on accessories is the figure one would be satisfied with. 25-30 round magazines would be desirable when burst modes are adopted. The 20 round 7.62 mm SLR magazine was robust and less prone to malfunctioning; an improvement on that is what is looked for rather than the rather disappointing plastic magazines with conventional spring mechanism that the INSAS went in for.

Whatever it be, the Indian Army has remained in various stages of self-doubt while equipped with the INSAS family. Let us hope that with renewed interest in a new family of weapons and slippages now causing virtual panic the senior hierarchy will finally come to a decision on a subject which should be considered as important as the acquisition of aircraft, tanks and guns.

http://www.news18.com/blogs/india/l...e-its-family-of-small-arms-14405-1236056.html
 

tharun

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Here is the new assault rifle from both Rehinmetall and Styer Mannlicher named as RS556


It weighs abiut 4.2 kgs which is more than HK 416....
 

sthf

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^^^^Proposed replacement of G-36 in German service.
 

hardip

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kuna@ i'm self taught small arms(rifles ) designer and I have very good assault rifles both regular and SBR barring metallurgy desgings. If i were to present my design then whom do i contact? Btw I'm a civilian.

ur right...
in US
civilian have superior Rifle than Indian solder...
 

sthf

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@ghost

NZ army tried it, didn't work so they bought LMT 308 MWS instead. Whether you like it or not, SLR is a 50 year old design. It was very good in its day but the world has moved on and so should we.
 

pmaitra

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Can't say anything about import on SVD. Although we do licence produce it.
1A1 is indigenous version of SLR. Its still in active use. We could easily modify it.
Ishapore 2A1 is indigenous version of Springfield. Its a world class weapon on its own. Slight modification in right place could make them world beater.
Best thing is all of these does fire 7.62x51 NATO round.
Ishapore 2A1 is a 7.62 x 51 NATO version (not a conversion) of the original .303 Short Magazine Lee-Enfield or SMLE. It looks somewhat similar to Springfield (probably due to the Remington heritage of the SMLE) but was developed from the .303 SMLE. Both 7.62 x 51 NATO SMLE and .303 SMLE are indigenous, because the factory was and still is in India, just like there are factories all over the former British Empire making the SMLE.
 

ghost

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@sthf I agree.

RM Manohar parrikar has said " have given 4 months to OFB to prove itself or else rifles would be acquired through fast track" most probably through GTG route.

There is a high probability that we may go for Galil ace 7.62x51 Nato under fast track.The person in the following video state(from 21:00) that Indian army have selected Galil ace for itself :


Nobody know how things in Indian system work.However ,suppose we do end up with GALIL ACE .308 ,I would like to provide a brief overview of it.


Galil ace 7.62x51mm


Main highlights:

#Long stroke gas piston .
#rotating closed bolt.
#Available in barrel length 11.8inch ,16inch ,20 inch .
#hammer forged chrome lined barrel.
#no bolt hold open.
#reciprocating charging handle on the left side.
#charging handle dust cover.
#Galil sniper rifle trigger.
#barrel twist rate of 1:12.
#full flat rail on top and rails on side and bottom of hand guard covered with a removable rail cover.
#Two port muzzle brake.
#milled machined steel receiver.
#telescopic and side folding stock with adjustable/removable cheek rest.
#20 round magazine,accept most of the other 7.62x51mm magazine.
#ambidextrous magazine release and safety.
#single shot and full auto.
#Fully adjustable iron sights with Tritium front post and 2 dot Tritium rear aperture.


Plus points of this rifle:

#Since it is a improved ak ,it's highly reliable.

# Field strip and and assembly is similar to Insas/AK .Maintaining this rifle would not require elaborate training and will be easy to do.

# Recoil is mild compared to SLR,G3 and most of the other .308 rifles;easy to control in full auto.

# Trigger is one of the best(galil sniper) among the combat rifles.

#Due to shifting charging handle dust cover this rifle is completely sealed of outside element like dust,grass.

# Good iron sights ,tritium that illuminate in dark to act as night sight.

# Weight of 3.9kg (without mag,16barrel) is good for a .308 rifle.

# IWI would transfer full TOT.


Minus points of this rifle:

# It is loud,very loud.

# Recoil even though mild is more when compared to FN SCAR.

# It gets hot too fast(around 60 rounds),even though this does not have much effect on the functioning of the rifle ,the shooter would require gloves to hold the hand guard.

# The hand guard rail cover flex when firing.

# I don't know about the accuracy of this rifle.

# No bolt hold open after the mag gets empty.

# Not cheap.Retail at around $2000 in US.


Biggest PLUS POINT:

It is a Rolls Royce of AK.(Simple and Reliable to the core)

Biggest minus point:

It is not SCAR( The biggest let down when compared to SCAR is the absence of floating barrel like SCAR ,which is the main reason behind the MOA accuracy of SCAR,IMHO.)


Disclaimer(My perspective based on the various user experience)







 
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sthf

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@ghost

Not a big fan of Ace series. For an AK based platform they are not as reliable as the original and not as accurate as others but at the same time is not particularly cheap, but overall not bad.

Most other options like Scar or HK 417 are prohibitively expensive. I like Sig Sauer 716 as an option. Reasonably priced, good accuracy (not as good as Scar or 417), don't know about reliability.

If OFB can come up with a 7.62 Nato version of MCIWS then it's all good otherwise my vote goes to Sig if money is not there and 417 or Scar if money is not an issue.
 

Bornubus

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Galil Ace is in service with 9 Para and 51/52 SAG. But not many pics available.


Also the new Ghatak replacing the AK series rifles in special Forces.
 

Johny_Baba

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Galil ACE ?

Hmmm...

Instead of a foreign made Assault Rifle of kalashnikov pattern in 7.62 x 51 NATO for Indian Armed Forces,better modify our very own Mk.1-C Excalibur and create a new variant in 7.62 x 51 NATO with SCAR like Adjustable Length + Adjustable Cheek Pad + Side folding Buttstock,Full length Top pic rails with pic rails on all sides of Hand guards,Ambidextrous fire selectors and so on.
My Advise: Also modify receiver a little bit to make it accept 1A SLR (Indian variant of FAL)mags as i'm sure there are plenty of Mags available for SLR 1A which can be used via this little tweak.
 

ghost

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While most people over here are contemplating that OFB has designed a 7.62x51 rifle for Indian army ,there is a high probability that they have collaborated with an Indian company(which has collaborated with a foreign company) and therefore offering a "foreign rifle" to the RFP issued by the Indian army.

They must have feared that in case of some other rifle being selected the production would be transferred to the Indian private firm(collaborating with the foreign company) .So,they decided to collaborate with an Indian firm to remain in the race to be able to produce the rifles and ammunition themselves.

However,it could be possible that in absence of any company responding to their RFI ,they have gone ahead with their own design .Let's wait and watch.


The RFI issued by them:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...11-16.pdf&gws_rd=cr&ei=sfuKWIa8MMWFvQSXkZbYAw

Important parts:
This EOI is being issued for selection of partner for collaboration agreement for
production and supply of 7.62x51mm Assault Rifle .


The interested prospective collaborators shall approach OFB to ensure their response with details. The response shall necessarily be accompanied with details on company background, technical features/product performance preservation with capabilities, product catalogue, reference list, financial performance and other enclosures as required under the present EOI. Interested prospectives are required to submit 2 Nos. of 7.62x51mm Assault Rifles as advance returnable samples on No Cost No Commitment basis for internal evaluation.

A Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) shall be signed with the selected prospective collaborator before submission of bid against RFP to Indian Army / MoD. The licnese & technology collaboration agreement and the Supply Agreement shall be entered into with the selected prospective collaborator after receipt of contract by OFB from MoD.

The last date for receipt of responses is 09/12/2016. Your response may be sent to the following address.



PART – I: Eligible vendor/OEMs have to supply the World Class Assault Rifle with calibre 7.62x51mm. The Assault Rifle should be light weight, accurate and able to hit the target at a distance of not less than 500m. The Rifle should be able to work in all environmental condition and geographical terrain.

PART - II

Qualitative Requirement of 7.62x51mm Assault Rifle OFB seeks a 7.62x51mm Assault Rifle with adequate lethality to achieve the objective of ‘Shoot to Kill’ with the following board Characteristics: a) Effective Range: Minimum 500 meters.

b) Lethality: Adequate lethality at ranges up to minimum 500 meters in terms of wound profile, energy transfer and penetration.

c) Recoil: The recoil should be duly optimized to provide maximum comfort to the firer and shoot consistently with accuracy.

d) Accuracy: The Rifle should be capable of achieving accuracy better than 3 MoA up to a range of minimum 500 meters.

e) Reliability: The Rifle shall be reliable in its operation as per international standards for reliability.

f) Modular design.

g) Capable of fitting and firing of Indian in-service UBGL manufactured by Ordnance Factory Trichy.

h) Compatibility with all modern sights and accessories and provision for mounting the same.

i) In terms of design, metallurgy and performance parameters, the Rifle and Sight shall be ‘State of the Art’ in order to remain relevant for next 25 to 30 years.

j) The Rifle shall be capable of providing the desired performance across all spectrums of employment in the Indian terrain and climatic conditions.

k) The Rifle shall comply with the laid down MIL standards and other International standards in vogue.
 
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