Net Neutrality in India

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by Ancient Indian, Feb 11, 2016.

  1. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Ad revenue is also there in YouTube, amongst other things. Without ad revenue, what would be the motivation to offer such services? Everything costs money.
     
  2. Ancient Indian

    Ancient Indian p = np :) Senior Member

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    That is what I am saying.
    But you know the free basics will throw out our poverty and make everything greener.
    I wonder what is wrong with the guy.
    Maybe too much alpha syndrome can make a guy blabbering baboon.
     
  3. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Well, let me read a bit more on this and maybe I can contribute more.
     
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  4. Ancient Indian

    Ancient Indian p = np :) Senior Member

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    There is some gatekeeper rule in the whole set up.
    Fb decides which sites can be accessed or not.
    @Navneet Kundu I forgot to tag you last night.

    See my above post on astroturfing. That may be the reason why government kicked out free basics. You know next generation warfare and what not.
     
  5. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    Arguing with you was a waste of my time.

    People using FreeBasics will use the internet. Apps exist completely outside the WWW ecosystem. Apps use the internet and don't go through the World Wide Web.

    Lol @ Competition Commission of India. Those dinosaurs can't grok tech. Hell, I never expected FreeBasics to fail given Modi's pappi-jhappi and selifies with Zuckerberg and co.

    BTW Facebook is already a massive monopoly. Most surveys show that the average user spends 80%+ of their time on the Facebook ecosystem (FB + Whatsapp + Instagram)

    FreeBasics is part of Facebook's grand strategy to challenge Google which dominates the open WWW. But instead of offering better services vs Google they're trying to undermine the whole platform. When companies (Google vs FB) fight it out consumers win, but here FB is trying to rig the game itself. If it wins the consumer will be the ultimate loser.

    You can have a look at Facebook's developer guidelines as to how Free Basics channels data https://developers.facebook.com/docs/internet-org/platform-technical-guidelines. TL;DR Facebook proxies all your requests and hence sniffs all your (not just the user's but the company's too !) data. There is no way in hell that Amazon (or any capable tech player offering non-trivial services) will willingly allow Facebook to sniff all their data. Sinister. It's like license raj PLUS police state ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
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  6. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Exactly. And they have deep pockets to challenge FB. That is what you are forgetting.
     
  7. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    Dude. Amazon doesn't care. FreeBasics won't change installs of Amazon's application which is not distributed through the open web. Open Web / WWW / the World Wide Web. That's what at stake here. Mobile Apps are a separate ecosystem and will not be affected.

    The Open Web is an awesome system which allows search, indexing and discoverability (and hence contextual ads ;)) by design. FreeBasics is aiming to replace that.

    It totally makes sense from a business perspective for Facebook, this has to potential to destroy Google in the developing world. So Google's gonna be the one to challenge this. They have very deep pockets. Google has already started http://www.ibtimes.com/google-ceo-s...-indian-market-free-wi-fi-recruitment-2227621

    But here's the thing which is important. It's not Google's version of Internet vs Facebook's version. But the open WWW vs Facebook. One option is clearly worse than the other. Google's strategy is the right way to go about it. FB should have done same, their userbase would have increased simply by improving connectivity to the Web. But they got too greedy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
  8. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    If it is really that awesome why would it be destroyed. You are just repeating without giving any reasons.
     
  9. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    Awesome things get destroyed all the time. (I know your line of argument 'If its awesome, then let the market decide !')

    Lets just go by the numbers. Users already spend 80%+ of their time on mobile phones inside FB's ecosystem. Now FB expands their offerings to restricted web-like services (aka Free Basics). What's more, this system is completely free ! Users jump ship. Open Web gets screwed. FB upon achieving its goal starts monetising (among other things) its channel. Unlike WWW you can't block these ads anymore. Search and discoverability don't exist anymore. All major content creators (news, magazines, blogs) have jumped ship to FB. Users whine, FB happy.
     
  10. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    I know awesome things die as well.

    MS tried hard but linux based systems continued the fight. You are assuming everything else will die and FB will win. Web is a big market. Even taking your example 15-20% of the services will be more than enough to sustain any platform.
     
  11. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    @LurkerBaba 's arguments for banning free basics
    1. Free basics will kill internet

    2/ free basics will kill internet

    3. Free basics will kill internet

    4. Free basics will kill internet.


    I am really spinning my head on how that statement follows but could not see any. No really, if users dint think FB free basics was good enough, they will stop using free basics and would go back to their default internet plans.

    But lurkerbaba is making it look like free basics is forced on everyone involved in India. Really dude, just stating bullahit again and again won't make it true.


    What's worse on the very next post he shows how Google is also planning giving free internet plans which are limited. Yeah, so people are too stupid to know what is good for them eh? Elitist clowns are what these people who oppose free basics are, who think common man is too dumb to make decisions for himself, not very different from the socialist dogs which ruled us from 47-91. If only they were a bit more honest with their agenda:rolleyes:
     
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  12. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    In a country like India, monopolies can't form unless enforced state support/ legislations like anti free basics/net neutrality crap
     
  13. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    That was the only part of your post with substance. So I'll reply to that. Those internet plans are via Google Loon. It's limited only in speed, not in selection/discoverability.

    As for the rest of your post. You still haven't understood (and don't want to understand) the difference between the World Wide Web and the Internet.

    Also, I'm surprised that the forum has put up with your shenanigans for so long. Probably because mods couldn't permaban users. But I can.

    Ciao.
     
  14. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    Actually MS's approach was good. MS fought against Apple, Linux came much later. Apple (Mac) was a true monopoly, hardware + software tightly controlled. Microsoft destroyed that monopoly (a good thing). Today both Microsoft and Linux (and now even 'Mac') share the same platform - x86 'PCs'.

    Most anti-Microsoft arguments (and the anti-trust lawsuite) came out when they started messing up with WWW using their bundled Internet Explorer. See the pattern here ?

    The correct analogy for Web would be Firefox vs Chrome vs Internet Explorer vs Safari fighting for usershare without burning the entire platform. Facebook should've launched a browser or some other value add.
     
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  15. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    But you still stick to your assumption that FB will kill it.

    There are behavioral and many other issues with people. I like using everything on my laptop rather than my phone. There are many like that. Btw, this is just one example.
     
  16. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Btw, you just gave example how MS killed apple monopoly!!
     
  17. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    Maybe kill it. Possibly damage it a lot for developing countries like India

    Facebook can do things to 'plug gaps' in your laptop needs. It can create a thin client for FreeBasics (like a web browser is a thin client for the web)

    IBM + Microsoft killed Apple early on. The x86 PC was and is an awesome platform. Its open architecture allows both hardware and software manufacturers to develop stuff without taking blessings from a single vendor (unlike Apple). Competition on this open platform (Intel vs AMD or Microsoft vs Linux) is good for the consumer.
     
  18. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    FB was allowed in India. It would not have even got a foothold in other countries.

    You are giving too much credit to Fb. Anyway!
     
  19. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    Eternal vigilance is the price for liberty, civilisation and all that jazz !
     
  20. prasadr14

    prasadr14 Regular Member

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    All the Pro-Free Basics should go and read up Split of Ma Bell after an anti-trust law suit.

    As aptly put by others, Monopoly is the worst thing for consumers, even if it is FREE.

    The competition between MS Vs Apple,
    The competition between Apple vs Samsung,
    The competition between NVDIA vs AMD vs Intel etc...
    are classic cases of how a healthy competition is the best thing for consumers in the long run.
    Without AMD at their heels, do you know who badly NVIDIA and Intel would have fleeced the consumers?
     

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