Net Neutrality in India

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by Ancient Indian, Feb 11, 2016.

  1. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    I was pretty clear.

    My argument is against FreeBasics and not exactly against net neutrality. Net neutrality is a very broad topic and includes stuff like free datapacks for WhatsApp etc. Try to understand the difference

    Let me try again. If FreeBasics is implemented, Facebook will act as a gateway between a huge middle class market and say a new tech startup. This is different from the open web where any company can setup any website which has equal chance of discoverability. Understood ?
     
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  2. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    @LurkerBaba ^^^ so your justification for the free basics is the plain old protectionism and nothing fancy. :rolleyes:


    So hundreds of millions of potential benefactors of free internet can fuck off so that a limited number of entrepreneurs "may have a chance" at becoming great. Yep. Next thing we should stop reliance/bigbazaar shops from selling goods at predatory pricing as new startup shops could not compete with them.


    Next thing we should do is we should stop /shut down high end machinery driven textile production since the hand weaved handicraft/small industries cannot compete with them on pricing.


    Hmmm. Now why does this remind me of Indira Gandhi's massively successful nationalised/protectionist economy:hmm:


    And the worst part is, this is not even the biggest problem start ups face today. The biggest problem startups have always faced is dealing with the red tape, which if anything arguably has worsened because of this law.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
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  3. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Only in India can stuff which can screw the consumers like opposition to free basics can be peddled as a dev prasad for consumers :(
     
  4. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    I thought you may go down that line of reasoning. That's why I added a disclaimer in my previous post.

    *sigh* Let me try yet again.

    I'm not against free data packs and free internet. Mozilla and Google already offer services where you get free internet by clicking on ads and other incentives. Facebook should have followed the same model. See ? I'm not on the net neutrality bandwagon. What Facebook is doing is challenging the WWW (Word Wide Web). It's bypassing it with its own alternative. WWW is different from the internet.

    Your (and SGU's) analogies with socialism are laughably incorrect. Try to understand the nuances of this issue. Free Basics and Net Neutrality are different issues (albeit with overlap). An argument against FreeBasics isn't necessarily an argument for net-neutrality. FreeBasics is inherently anti-capitalistic. It's eerily similar to the license raj we had in the 90s. Instead of allowing the free-market (WWW) to decide, you have a huge bureaucrat (Facebook) doling out licenses for a new enterprise. It massively increasing red tape. Not decreasing it.
     
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  5. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    LB- you really think FreeBasics can kill the innovation sector in India?

    1) There is Competition Commission of India which could have been approached later if there were monopoly problems rather than shooting it down right now. For eg: If FB only allows Amazon app which captures large market share, other retailers can approach CCI.

    2) And second- if FreeBasics really becomes a gated community, then other competitors will and can break that monopoly given FB's restrictive nature. If FB only allows Amazon app for free, while a parallel network allows Amazon as well as Snapdeal, many users will choose 2nd option given the flexibility it provides. It is simply stupid to think that people won't pay few bucks to buy better service especially given the rising income levels in India.

    What you are confusing is that Facebook itself enjoys network benefits, because it makes sense for everyone to coordinate and use Facebook. This would not be true for FreeBasics, everyone is not going to use FreeBasics because everyone else is using FreeBasics(no network effect). They would use/not use FreeBasics depending on whether it fits their purpose. There are just too many applications out there to monitor--if you think FB would really act as a doorkeeper to everything, it is not possible. This is exactly why Microsoft has to change its model to crowdsourcing, post Android. Yes, there are developers who only build stuff for Android, but there are many who build for both iOS and Android. Same would be true for freeBasics.

    And btw, if FaceBook really becomes like License Raj 2.0, without state protection it will simply fail. People became smugglers under License Raj 1.0. If there was no state coercion it would have simply failed. If FreeBasics really becomes LR 2.0, it will first lose developers and then customers.
     
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  6. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    @LurkerBaba. ^^^non sequitor reasoning from top to bottom since you have not demonstrated why Facebook offering free basics will shut down WWW.
    Facebook offering free basics is not going to force WWW down. Not everyone is going to just get free basics and be done with internet. Is there any other nonsensical excuse you want to bring up:rolleyes:?


    Or you can be a bit more honest and say that since the anti consumer twits behind the saveinternet.in just wanted the competition from free basics out of the way for the future IT companies they can start. Basically, millions of Indians get to be screwed so that few IT companies don't have to compete with Facebook.
     
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  7. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    It is like saying since you have dhabas, all five star hotels will close shop!!
     
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  8. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Doesn't matter even if Facebook offers only Amazon app. The other ISPs would still allow the other players to sell. And consumers are not stupid . if they see that Facebook does not allow other retailers like EBAY/FLIPKART which are cheaper than Amazon, they would either stop using FB internet or migrate to other ISPs for getting cheaper Products from EBay/FLIPKART.


    Consumers are not stupid (or may be they are seeing how many morons here support net neutrality/anti free basic crap) and would go with whatever is the best for them be it quality or quantity.


    But yes, even if there is misuse of monopoly, it can be settled through courts.


    However the irony here is that the biggest internet monopoliser of the country is actually BSNL which none of the twits behind save internet have any problem with when it arguably has the worst Internet service in the world. I am pretty sure free basics would have kicked the balls of the BSNL and would have kicked it from its sleep which is now only a pipe dream.

    Thank you modi for screwing with rural and poor Indians ::(
     
  9. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Even otherwise, FB cannot take money out of others pocket to stop them from innovating. Even now there are so many other technical giants, who can kick FB's ass if it becomes too restricted.

    Uber had near monopoly in US and has been completely broken by Lyft and other firms in alliance. FB monopoly, if it arose, would have seen similar fate with aggressive offers by other telcos plus IT companies.
     
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  10. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    We are at a point in time when even natural monopoly targets like railways, waters, electricity cannot be monopolised without state coersion because of the massive increase in capital over the last century and these people fear monopoly in a sector which has thousands of ISPs.


    For some reason, anti monopoly has become on the favourite shields of the anti capitalists/anti free market forces. I mean really, let's say Facebook does manage to get a monopoly and makes 800rs out of something which would require only R's 200 to operate, will the consumers be stupid enough to support it for long? If the price goes unreasonably up, the consumers will start cutting the consumption. And even if it did happen, how long can FB manage? It won't be very long before a bigger capitalist with a bigger investment to come and completely undercut the FB to the point of droving it out of business and given this potential scenerio, where FB has outrageous prices, such undercutting would be very easy and very deadly to FB.


    All in all, this monopoly argument is possibly the worst /lamest argument the anti free basic ayotallahs can come up with.:truestory:
     
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  11. Ancient Indian

    Ancient Indian p = np :) Senior Member

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    Everything should be done in proper way. No rushing can make things better.

    In free basics case, our telcos wanted to play safe in the name of free services.
    There is no such thing as free bee in reality.
    For some one who hates socialistic methods, sure showing their socialist colors.

    @pmaitra can you say some thing on this.
     
  12. Ancient Indian

    Ancient Indian p = np :) Senior Member

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    And who wants Facebook?

    Facebook is just a website. Internet is much more than what our resident experts going on here.
     
  13. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    :pound: another proof that sanghis have no brain. @Sakal Gharelu Ustad see how these people pervert the meaning of ideologies?

    So now supporting the right of a private company to do business the way it wants and the rights of the consumers to consume the business/service that private company wants by their own way is socialism?:lol: no really , a private business wants to sell a product and some consumers might/might not want to buy that product and it is a private deal between those two involved and the govt has no right to intervene here. Involving the govt to intervene in favor/against one or the other without the consent of the consumer(not those who don't want FB, but those consumers who did want Facebook free basics since they are the only consumers here) or the private company is the very defn of anti free market/interventionism/protectionism/socialistic license raj. Get that into the sanghi brain of yours.

    And your sanghi brain misunderstood the problem completely as expect let me explain the actual problem here, we are not defending "free" part of free basics but rather defending the right of a private company to offer/do services as per its wish. And offering something for free does not make something socialist. That would mean the offerings of 2+1,3+1,1+1 or other BS offers by private cos., socialist, which they are not. So not only do you not understand socialism or free market, you don't even understand what you are for.

    Tell me honestly, you are only supporting the ban on free basics because the sanghi govt did it don't you?:pound:if it had been a congi govt, you people would have been flaming this thread on the anti development anti poor anti middle class congis wouldn't you?


    And also tag the resident commie for bolstering their commie stand against free market too. Great. Commies and RSS clowns are made for each other. After all they both share the same ideology except for the cow part which one eats and the other drinks the piss of
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
  14. Ancient Indian

    Ancient Indian p = np :) Senior Member

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    You are asking something for free. I pointed that out.
    I am not expert like you or sakal in economics to boast something.
     
  15. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    :frusty:

    How is something which is being paid for by a private company socialist? No really, it boggles my mind. So is internet socialist, seeing as how most things on it is free? Or is YouTube socialist? And now my support of free basics is socialist? Really? Is that why the commie whores(from khujli to Raul kutta) oppose it? Stop think that RSS clowns are the only RW thekadars. You guys are pathetic as RW. Learn to take criticism or learn a good way to make a sorry speech on why you lost 2019
     
  16. Ancient Indian

    Ancient Indian p = np :) Senior Member

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    I am just programmer who does freelancing in free time.
    Let's not go calling names for my less exposure to other areas.

    @Mad Indian
     
  17. Ancient Indian

    Ancient Indian p = np :) Senior Member

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    @Mad Indian
    Astroturfing is the practice of masking the sponsors of a message or organization (e.g., political, advertising, religious or public relations) to make it appear as though it originates from and is supported by grassrootsparticipant(s). It is a practice intended to give the statements or organizations credibility by withholding information about the source's financial connection. The term astroturfing is derived from AstroTurf, a brand of synthetic carpeting designed to resemble natural grass, as a play on the word "grassroots." The implication behind the use of the term is that there are no "true" or "natural" grassroots, but rather "fake" or "artificial" support, although some astroturfing operatives defend the practice (see Justification below).

    On the Internet, astroturfers use software to mask their identity. Sometimes one individual operates through many personas to give the impression of widespread support for their client's agenda.[1][2] Some studies suggest astroturfing can alter public viewpoints and create enough doubt to inhibit action. [3]
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    It is modi's concern. I don't need to defend anything.

    To think that internet is Facebook and few websites, one wonders what the heck they are drinking.
     
  18. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    I have not had an opportunity to go very deep into this. Prima facie, I second @LurkerBaba's post.
     
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  19. k murali

    k murali Regular Member

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    Decisions such as these (free Facebook Internet operation) should be left to each state gov. DEach state is bigger than many countries which regulate their Internet operations. State like TN with progressive govs for ver act wisely. If some retrogradde state do not want facebook, it is their decision.
     
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  20. Ancient Indian

    Ancient Indian p = np :) Senior Member

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    Okay then. . .
    My gripe is with reliance. They wanted to earn money by giving free userbase to someone like fb.
    Ad revenue is the main thing for fb. If this much users are given to fb, it is going to be disaster.
     

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