Navy orders 8 tejas fighter jets

[p2prada]

LCA can't carry 3.6 tons of fuel externally. The drop tanks aren't rated at 1200 Kg either, it is 1200 liters. Take 80% of that capacity as weight of the fuel if you want a figure for weight of fuel carried. Center line is 725 liters.

That's 960*2 + 580*1 = 2500Kg of fuel in drop tanks. I'm not sure if there is enough space to carry a 1200 liter tank on the center line. The Mk2 can be fixed to do that though. With 3 1200 Lt tanks, it would be 2880 Kg.

That's ~5 tons of fuel when carried both internally and externally.

 

[Armand2REP]

Surely in near future, But at present KH-35U & AGM-84 are there..



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In very near future..

Until LCA gets launched from a catapult, it doesn't have the payload to worry about what the pylons can carry.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

We will see that in time..

Until LCA gets launched from a catapult, it doesn't have the payload to worry about what the pylons can carry.

 

[Armand2REP]

We will see that in time..

There is no need to get ahead of ourselves. When they get catapults, maybe we can talk about ASMs for Naval LCA. Right now it could only be used as air defence.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

As i said we will know in coming days..

There is no need to get ahead of ourselves. When they get catapults, maybe we can talk about ASMs for Naval LCA. Right now it could only be used as air defence.

 

[Defcon 1]

LCA can't carry 3.6 tons of fuel externally. The drop tanks aren't rated at 1200 Kg either, it is 1200 liters. Take 80% of that capacity as weight of the fuel if you want a figure for weight of fuel carried. Center line is 725 liters.

That's 960*2 + 580*1 = 2500Kg of fuel in drop tanks. I'm not sure if there is enough space to carry a 1200 liter tank on the center line. The Mk2 can be fixed to do that though. With 3 1200 Lt tanks, it would be 2880 Kg.

That's ~5 tons of fuel when carried both internally and externally.

At 3.5 tonne of external load, this will mean 2.1-2.3 tonnes of fuel+2 harpoon missiles. Such a NLCA can be escorted by another NLCA with full fuel and 2 BVRs + 2 WVRs or 4 BVRS +2WVRs if multi ejector racks are possible.

 

[ersakthivel]

May be @ersakthivel can shed some light in..

The max thrust available to mk-1 with present GE-404 is limited to 84 kn .SO right now it lifts 3.7 tons only.

If a higher thrust engine is introduced later in the mid life upgrade program of tejas mk-1,it can lift more than the present 3.7 tons.
Because higher thrust means higher maximum take off weight at sea level.

This higher thrust will generate more lift at take off. The excess lift can be used to lift close to it's max-5 ton weapon load.
Since tejas has already one of the lowest wingloadings(means it can generate more lift as it has larger wing area compared to it's weight in kg)among combat aircrafts.

Conversely if more metal parts are replaced with composites (engine mountings, display mountings,and many other parts as per CEMILAC report) later, it will reduce the empty weight of the tejas mk-1.Since max take off weight is constant at 14 tons, weapon load can be increased .

People in the navy know this is more likely to happen.And it will have much lower RCS than the mig-29K presently available to NAVy.There is no talk of pakfa naval version. SO apart from rafale(if ordered for navy)tejas will be the second best for navy , till AMCA comes in.
Also navy will buy mk-2 and will use mk-1 for tactics and training right now till the upgrades for mk-1 will happen at 10 years from now.
That's why I am saying that mk-1 is not just a prototype TD.Once higher powered engines come on board it will get closer to mk-=2 in performance.
Since AMCA and lca-mk-1 are going to have the same engine form fit ,this upgrade has more chances of happening than not.

 

[ersakthivel]

Also center line conformal fuel tank,if developed in future will have least drag and and add more fuel carrying capacity while freeing up two more pylons for missiles .

 

[p2prada]

At 3.5 tonne of external load, this will mean 2.1-2.3 tonnes of fuel+2 harpoon missiles. Such a NLCA can be escorted by another NLCA with full fuel and 2 BVRs + 2 WVRs or 4 BVRS +2WVRs if multi ejector racks are possible.

There will be no N-LCA Mk1s in service. All LCAs for the navy will be Mk2s.

You see why they are so smart. PR victory right there. Without any effort. They just need to make silly announcements like "we are desperate for LCA." Order a squadron or two (8 as of today) and still stick with 45-90 Mig-29Ks and 2 squadrons (according to decklander) or more (4 squadrons according to media) of Rafale or other equivalent aircraft. While majority of their fleet will still comprise of imported aircraft, nobody will blame them of corruption and what not.

Mk2 will have a payload carrying capacity of 5t, if things go according to plan. Will be a far better aircraft than the Mk1. No idea if there will be addition of more hardpoints. That will do good for the A2A payload.

There was a Navy officer talking about ordering F-414 EPE for the N-LCA Mk2, maybe that will happen in the future, especially once export orders are confirmed from other sources for the EPE. But it is plenty to know the N-LCA may end up being heavier than expected, but definitely more heavy than the IAF version.

 

[ersakthivel]

The 3500 kg external stores written in this poster indicates it's present carrying capacity with lower powered GE-404 engine.Even the SP version will have a bit higher powered engine than LSP versions.In Midlife upgrades after a decade, it is quite possible to have higher powered engine which will be produced for AMCA.
Since pylons on LCA tejas are capable of carrying 5 ton plus loads, with higher powered engine it will lift heavier loads.

Also note the words supersonic at all altitudes,
And 1.6 mach as topspeed achieved,

Because it is yet to complete the remaining 15 percent of test flight program ,
SO higher top speeds at service ceiling and sea level will be achieved with LSP-8 or SP version.

Without realizing this people are saying it is subsonic at sea level, and cant go past mach 1.6.

The mach-1 has airframe capacity to reach much higher specs than the one at the poster.If you notice LSP_7's air intake a jag like auxillary intake is there for more airflow at higer speeds as a new addition.this will help it to improve top speeds.Also as decklander said enlarging air inlet for higher powered engine in SP version or for even higher powered engine during upgrades wont be a big problem.

 

[Defcon 1]

There will be no N-LCA Mk1s in service. All LCAs for the navy will be Mk2s.

You see why they are so smart. PR victory right there. Without any effort. They just need to make silly announcements like "we are desperate for LCA." Order a squadron or two (8 as of today) and still stick with 45-90 Mig-29Ks and 2 squadrons (according to decklander) or more (4 squadrons according to media) of Rafale or other equivalent aircraft. While majority of their fleet will still comprise of imported aircraft, nobody will blame them of corruption and what not.

Mk2 will have a payload carrying capacity of 5t, if things go according to plan. Will be a far better aircraft than the Mk1. No idea if there will be addition of more hardpoints. That will do good for the A2A payload.

There was a Navy officer talking about ordering F-414 EPE for the N-LCA Mk2, maybe that will happen in the future, especially once export orders are confirmed from other sources for the EPE. But it is plenty to know the N-LCA may end up being heavier than expected, but definitely more heavy than the IAF version.

But aren't 6 NLCA's been ordered already? Are they of mk1 or mk2 version?

 

[p2prada]

Not exactly ordered. There was recent news only now that the IN will be ordering 8 Mk2s. No Mk1s.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I dont read MK2 ..

The 8 fighters now being ordered by the navy --- which HAL will build in what is called limited series production, or LSP --- will be used to train naval pilots who will eventually fly the Tejas from the aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant, which Cochin Shipyard would build by 2015, and from a second indigenous aircraft carrier that will follow the Vikrant.

 

[Decklander]

IN has one fighter pilot training sqn INAS-551 called Phantoms. This sqn has two two flts. One is made up of Kirans and second is made up of a total of 8 Sea Harrier Trainers and fighters. The Kirans are used for providing initial sea operations orientation training to pilots who pass out of AFA Dundigal. This also acts as first screening for those pilots who make the grade as Fighter pilots as per IAF standards. After this sea flying orientation training the pilots who make the grade are deputed for advanced training with operational sqns of IAF. After completing the IAF tenure these pilots are again checked for suitability for deck operations and get trained in INAS-551 B Flt comprising Sea Harriers.
The initial eight N-LCA will be replacing these Sea Harriers in INAS-551 B Flt. So you see that making the grade as a fighter pilot in IAF is no guarantee in IN as we have our own triple stage screening procedure over & above that of IAF.

 

[p2prada]

Any idea what will be the future LIFT for the Navy? LCA or Hawk?

But yeah, the first set of orders are for training requirement.

 

[Decklander]

Any idea what will be the future LIFT for the Navy? LCA or Hawk?

But yeah, the first set of orders are for training requirement.

IN will phase out Sea Harriers with Viraat. So the future is SATOBAR and CATOBAR. NLCA MK1 will be best for training the pilots for deck landings. Mk1 is underpowered for combat loads but is adequately powered for Training flights. Once pilots get their Day Deck Ops status on MK1, they can move on to NLCA MK2 for fully ops status.
IN has a long training syllabus. You first get Day ops shore, than fully ops shore, than Day deck ops and finally fully Ops status.

 

[Defcon 1]

IN will phase out Sea Harriers with Viraat. So the future is SATOBAR and CATOBAR. NLCA MK1 will be best for training the pilots for deck landings. Mk1 is underpowered for combat loads but is adequately powered for Training flights. Once pilots get their Day Deck Ops status on MK1, they can move on to NLCA MK2 for fully ops status.
IN has a long training syllabus. You first get Day ops shore, than fully ops shore, than Day deck ops and finally fully Ops status.

But isn't LCA a tad expensive for being used as a training aircraft?

 

[Defcon 1]

Not exactly ordered. There was recent news only now that the IN will be ordering 8 Mk2s. No Mk1s.

Here is the source saying 6 NLCA were ordered. The news was discussed on this forum as well. If it was false, a question arises, how do we determine which news is false and which is not.

Navy places Rs 900-cr order for 6 Tejas LCA - Rediff.com India News

 

[bengalraider]

AFAIK , The N-LCA is primarily going to be used to provide CAP over the CBG( it is not going to be operationally deployed before IAC-2), the Anti- Shipping Strike role is going to be handled by the Heavy hitter which is most probably going to be the RAFALE.

 

[Decklander]

Mk2 is going to be a very potent ac. We have four types of trainers for fighter training. basic trainer, intermediate trainer, advanced trainer and type trainer. Pilatus will be basic trainer, HJT Sitara will be intermediate trainer, hawk will be advanced trainer and MK1 will be type trainer. IN pilots are trained by IAF upto advanced training. After that they have to undergo training in sea operations which are very very different and difficult compared to land operations which IAF does. However the deck ops for arrester landings and launch remain nearly same for all ac.