NAVY cannot keep pace with new brahmos technology.

Discussion in 'Strategic Forces' started by A.V., Apr 6, 2009.

  1. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    Army on board, navy at sea
    SUJAN DUTTA

    New Delhi, April 4: Missile Man Sivathanu Pillai’s successful rapid-fire demonstrations of the BrahMos have scuttled a move in the army to import the Tomahawk or its clones and it is now set to order 260 of the home-grown weapons system.

    A missile race is currently intensifying in South Asia — though both India and Pakistan deny it — and the militaries of both countries are trying to outdo each other in the acquisition of ordnance delivery systems.

    India’s army chief, General Deepak Kapoor, is now in France. French firm MBDA is a supplier of different categories of missiles to India’s army, navy and air force.

    Although the Indian Army has finally been awed by Pillai’s Mark II version of the BrahMos, the Indian Navy has been overtaken by the pace of the technology that Pillai’s outfit has set. It cannot spare a single one from its ageing fleet of submarines for BrahMos to test the underwater version of the missile.

    The army has raised one regiment (numbered 861) of the BrahMos Mark I that has an inferior quality of seeker or homing device. Now two separate missile regiments of the BrahMos Mark II, which has a seeker that can discriminate and zero in on a small target in an urban clutter, will be raised and are likely to be numbered 862 and 863.

    The BrahMos cruise missile regiments follow the raisings of the 333, 444 and 555 Prithvi and Agni II ballistic missile regiments. Each of the two new BrahMos cruise missile regiments would have between four and six batteries of three to four Mobile Autonomous Launchers that can be connected to a general mobile command post.

    Pillai is now negotiating the order for the BrahMos Mark II with the army that could total between Rs 8,000 and Rs 10,000 crore. The deliveries of the missiles may be staggered for about 10 years after user trials.

    The user trials would involve actual test-firings of the missile by the army to practise using the missile in tougher-than warlike scenarios because the Pokhran desert range (maximum length 52km) does not allow the BrahMos to be tested to its full range of 290km.

    “Sometimes, technology sets a pace that the armed forces cannot absorb,” Pillai told The Telegraph. “If we get the support of the users (the armed forces), it becomes much easier. Right now we are facing problems with the navy.”

    A submarine-launched missile has the supreme advantage of concealment. But the navy cannot spare even one of the 13 submarines in its fleet for Pillai to test the underwater version of the BrahMos. Pillai says testing the missile from a pontoon to simulate a submarine under water will not suffice.

    The missile and its launcher would have to be integrated vertically — the picture that he draws is like a long snorkel — on the submarine.

    Pillai says the navy’s Kilo-class (Russian-origin) submarines are not built to last long enough for the capability.

    Even the French-origin Scorpene submarines that were ordered in 2006 and are now being built in France and co-developed in Mumbai’s Mazagon Docks are not configured for the BrahMos — a crucial failure when the contract for the submarines was drawn up.

    So Pillai will have to wait till a subsequent contract for six additional submarines is drawn up before he can move his submarine-version BrahMos from the drawing board to the test-bed.

    But most of the navy’s ships are being configured for the BrahMos either in India or in Russia. The INS Kolkata, a 7,000-tonne stealth destroyer being built in Mumbai, would have the BrahMos has its main weapons system.

    The Indian Air Force has allotted two Sukhoi 30 Mki aircraft in which the air-to-air and air-to-ground versions of the BrahMos are being configured. Pillai expects the air force version of the missile to be ready by 2011.

    http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090405/jsp/frontpage/story_10776641.jsp
     
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  3. vish

    vish Regular Member

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    InViNCiBlE:

    If the IN does not see the Scorpene SSKs as a platform for attacking land-based targets, and only wishes to use them for sea-denial, does it make sense to integrate Brahmos VLS canisters into the Scorpenes' hulls? I'm not saying that I'm privy to the happenings of the Naval HQ, but suggesting that may be this is the reason for the IN doing what it is doing.

    Also, why can't a pontoon-launch be done? Or are there complexities involved that I'm unaware of?
     
  4. jayadev

    jayadev Founding Member

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    i think very soon navy will able to spare a submarines for brahmos aerospace for testing the missile. but before doing an actual test in a submarine they should test the in a submerged pontoon.
     
  5. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    brahmos corp has made a lot of different technology tests in the various recent versions of the brahmos the most recent version of land based brahmos is quite different from the original block 1 naval version including key differences in seek and track system.
    so i suppose they waant to try out some key new features in the submarine versions too because of that they are not ready to test it from pontoons which might not suite their needs.
    however i hope they get a sub soon to test this platform their seems to be a lot of new features added to the brahmos and they dont want to divulge more till tests are carried out
     
  6. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    The Navy is waiting for the ATV then for all practical purpose. What is also a hindrance to mount it on a submarine is the range of the missile. At 290kms its range is very limited. Submarines are operated in the open with longer range missiles so that it does not have to get close to enemy border. To fire the Brahmos, IN sub will have to get close to EEZ of hte enemy country. Not a good idea i would think.
     
  7. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    Invi the VLS for BrahMos is not included in scorpene deal as of now even they don't have AIP. All these things will be in 2nd line of subs as well as ATV (ATV does not need AIP only 2nd line of subs needs it). Akula can have BrahMos without violating any treaty correct?
     
  8. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    ^^niteshji afaik non nuke brahmos and klubs only
     
  9. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    singh sahab BrahMos is "officially" not nuclear capable and it's range is also "officially" less then 300km then why not?
     
  10. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    Our forces have not wake up to the fact that Brahmos missile is some thing which only few countries possess (Russian and India) and their is no counter to it, the range in case of brahmos is insufficent, but if the missile is carried by sub, ship or plane then it is adequatly compensated for the same, IA till now was reluctant with brahmos, since their were other suppliers from US of same type of product, however things are now changing, Navy and IAF still needs to ask the Brahmos corporation for better product not only that they should make payments for at least 50% of R&D for their specilised and customised brahmos.
     
  11. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    If the Brahmos's range can be increased to 1000kms outside of Russian help as they are bound by the MTCR, then it will be a much more potent missile. If mounted on a sub, it will give it the option to stay in international waters and strike with devastation. If it could be nuclear tipped then all the more better. Sooner or later, DRDO has to start independent work on the Brahmos as the MTCR will always be a hindrance into enhancing its potency.
     
  12. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    I thought Brahmos was a different entity like the Bhramos aerospace...Is it under DRDO?
     
  13. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    Yusuf right now the engine of missile is Russian but other things like seeker, guidance software is from India. So long as Russian components are invovled MTCR can put restriction (on paper). You must have seen the news last year BrhaMos 2 engine was tested in India (The Russian part is becoming Indian). So the MTCR restriction goes.
     
  14. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Nitesh wasnt the Brahmos 2 suppose to carry a Scramjet engine?...I know it is going to be hypersonic but am not sure if it is a ramjet engine or the scramjet engine
     
  15. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    What I dont understand is why India has to be "Raja Harishchandra" in the development of weapon system? I mean, develop a longer range Brahmos and give it a new name and tell its a new indigenous missile. Who is going to question us? China proliferated missiles and nuke technology in violation of all international treaties and all the international community did was to make useless noise and that was it, while India dutifully follows all the bloody treaties.
     
  16. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    ^^Yusufji, what about Russia ? are they willing to let US, China etc. gain a legitimate reason to sell similar weapons to others ?
     
  17. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Yusuf sir, There is a difference between a democratic and a authoritarian government...everything is criticized as much as Chest thumping goes on....We are a Democratic government so we criticize more than an authoritarian government. At least we know wether we are in a path to success or failure.
     
  18. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Circumventing treaties has nothing to do with a country being democratic or authoritative.
     
  19. Dark Sorrow

    Dark Sorrow Respected Member Senior Member

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    No Scorpene has a hunter-killer role in IN. Fitting them with Brahmos will need their structure to be modified which will distort its original structure resulting hinderence in their original role.
     

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