Navy blocks IMD plan for Chinese radar

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by RPK, Sep 29, 2009.

  1. RPK

    RPK Indyakudimahan Senior Member

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    Navy blocks IMD plan for Chinese radar - Home - livemint.com

    Navy blocks IMD plan for Chinese radar

    Commissioning the advanced-technology radar would have meant allowing Chinese personnel on the premises owned and operated by the Indian Navy

    New Delhi: The India Meteorological Department (IMD) has been forced to look for indigenous alternatives after the navy, citing security, refused to allow the installation of a China-made radar on its land in Mumbai.

    Commissioning the advanced-technology radar would have meant allowing Chinese personnel on the premises owned and operated by the Indian Navy.


    Because of the delay in installing the radar, which was to be set up at the Naval Colony in Colaba and primarily used to warn of cloudbursts of the kind that deluged Mumbai in 2005, IMD is in talks with government-owned Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) to install its locally manufactured radars. IMD had rejected the BEL radars last year, saying they were at an experimental stage and not ready for operational forecasts.

    IMD bought 12 Doppler weather radars on 30 May from Beijing Metstar Radar Co. Ltd, a 49:51 venture of China National Huayun Technology Development Corp., a wholly owned subsidiary of China Meteorological Administration and US-based Lockheed Martin Corp. IMD is also buying 550 automatic weather stations and 1,350 automatic rain gauge stations as part of a Rs900 crore modernization plan to move into numerical weather prediction, globally used to give precise weather forecasts, as opposed to statistical techniques still being used in India for monsoon forecasts.

    A navy spokesperson said the weather radar clearance was still being discussed, but didn’t indicate when a decision was likely. “There are government orders on such kind of installations and when certain companies are involved. It is an important security issue.” Previously too, defence and intelligences agencies have raised objections to the presence of Chinese companies. According to The Indian Express report on 19 May 2003, the Chinese antecedents of Hutchison Port Holdings disqualified the firm from participating in key construction work at a terminal at Mumbai’s Jawaharlal Nehru Port Trust. Mumbai, being a port and a hub of international maritime traffic, is considered especially sensitive by the navy.

    IMD chief Ajit Tyagi and ministry of earth sciences (MoES) secretary Shailesh Naik confirmed that the navy hadn’t cleared the radar’s installation and that talks were on with BEL to use their radar instead of the Chinese one. “Security concerns is one of the factors that has led to this delay. We are in talks with BEL to see if we can use their radars,” Tyagi said.

    Mint reported on 18 June last year that Beijing Metstar outbid BEL, which develops weather radars based on proprietary technology of the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro), and Germany’s Selex Gematronik GmbH, for IMD contract to install the radars in 12 cities and key ports at Mumbai, Delhi, Agartala, Mohanbari, Paradip, Bhopal, Nagpur, Patna, Lucknow, Karaikal, Patiala and Goa. The radars, to be supplied, installed and commissioned by Metstar cost about $17.8 million (around Rs85 crore now).

    The Isro radars, say experts, didn’t make the cut as there was a lot of room for improvement in their software. The plan, according to IMD, was to consider Isro radars for the second stage of modernization that would include installing 33 radars in other parts of the country.

    “The Isro radars are very good,” said P.S. Goel, former secretary, MoES, who was involved with the tendering process before he retired in 2008. “But the software wasn’t good enough for forecast purposes. So, we told them, then, that the radars would be tested for two years and then considered for evaluation in the second round of acquisition.”

    Tyagi said the Isro radars had “improved” and therefore were worthy of being used at Mumbai. He didn’t give a time frame for installing the instrument.

    “If it’s a matter of security, the navy’s concerns are nonsense,” said Goel. “There’s no way these radars can be used as bugs or any purpose other than forecasting.”

    Doppler weather radars have an edge over other radar systems. The radars the government uses provide information only on the range of a storm whereas a Doppler instrument provides data to accurately estimate an approaching storm’s centre and intensity, fixing its position and predicting its path.

    “Now it’s DWRs everywhere. Nobody really uses ordinary weather radars,” Tyagi said.
     
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  3. arya

    arya Senior Member Senior Member

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    hi

    soo good we are using china radar

    open your eyes at least now or it will bw too late

    jai hind
     
  4. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    It is better to wait and install Indian radars. Chinese should be shipped back. India has the technology and should not be dependent on China for anything.

    jai hind
     
  5. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    who the hell got these type of ugly and worst idea,
    installing a radar which would compromise security and intell of IN activities.
     
  6. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    ROFL, I can't tell if that was said in jest, sarcasm or seriuseness. :D
     
  7. Koji

    Koji New Member

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    Uh...if you read the article the Navy clearly says IRSO does not have the software tech necessary. So no, India does not have the technology currently.
     
  8. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    If you bother to read the article properly, you will see that the local radar was rejected as it's not operational but experimental. It doesn't mean we don't have the tech. It says in the second phase, indian radars were to be used.
     
  9. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    even if we dont had , cant Russia or France or Israel could have been helped!
     
  10. Koji

    Koji New Member

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    Semantics. Then I correct my statement and say that India has the technology, but it is not good enough yet for implementation, as clearly noted by the navy.


    So for the next few years: Indians in the Mumbai region should always just carry their umbrellas! Lol
     
  11. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Software issues. It will be resolved.
     
  12. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    u are almost half correct kojji,
    ISRO doesnt have the software, but the BEL is developing it, it was rejected,
    means we that tech, but not mature enough.
     
  13. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    Ughh...No. If you read the article carefully, it clearly says that the BEL's radars developed under proprietary technology from ISRO and Selex did not make the cut then, at the time of bidding in June, last year. The Meteorological Department [not Navy] also said, last year, that BEL's radars were at an "experimental stage", not that "India does not have the technology". Don't twist the words of the article to your own advantage.


    From the article, in excerpt:



    Furthermore, the ISRO and the Defence Research and Development Organization have signed an MoU for the installation of two Doppler Weather Radars, the kind of radar in question, in the Himalayas for climate studies.
     
  14. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    Oh, you think you can be cute eh?

    You can take your 'semantics' and rama it up your WAZOOOO.

    As for 'umbrellas', let's not even get there:

    [​IMG]
     
  15. S.A.T.A

    S.A.T.A Senior Member Senior Member

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    Considering all that we know about Chinese manufacturing quality,mumbaikar's are probably better off with their umbrella's than depending on the Chinese radars.......cheap and atleast lasts longer.......
     
  16. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    u are right SATA, IF U need quality just check chinese electronic goods sold in India,
    we will get enough to know is are qualityof chinese goods.
     
  17. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Oh no, I was serious with a little sarcasm directed at an Indian who thinks India should be reliant on China. Chinese electronics are crap even when they use US technologies. Their quality control on a scale of 1-10 is -2. Indo-Italian radars would be much better than Chinese junk. You certainly don't need Chinese technicians snooping around secure Indian Naval facilities.
     
  18. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    I don't know which radar is better, because only experts and users can tell.

    What upset me is why can't indian navy reject this deal before the contract was signed?

    Maybe india should tell these chinese company: don't bother to bid for it, we'll cancel the deal sooner or later.
     
  19. Koji

    Koji New Member

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    India already is dependent on Chinese trade. Last time I checked, China was India's largest trading partner.
     
  20. shotgunner

    shotgunner Regular Member

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    Buy a radar = dependent? Anyway, I agree with you, India should be dependent on Russia, or maybe USA, even France. That works.
     
  21. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Actually USA...

     

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