Naval LCA

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by sathya, Jul 20, 2011.

  1. kunal1123

    kunal1123 Regular Member

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    idrw.org
    Sea Gripen and LCA Navy MK2 at Same Stages of Development: ADA official
    2 minutes
    SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK

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    With Saab responding to Indian Navy issued, formal request for information (RFI) for 57 Multi-role Carrier-borne fighters (MRCBF) with an offer of Sea Gripen carrier-based fighter, ADA official close to idrw.org has confirmed that development and testing time required for SAAB on Sea Gripen will be same for LCA Navy MK2 to become reality.

    LCA Navy MK2 is still going through design optimisation and final design might be frozen by 2018 and a full-scale mockup of the LCA Navy MK2 will be ready by 2018 said ADA official.

    ADA plans to start development of the first LCA Navy MK2 from 2019 onwards and orders for requisite raw materials have already been ordered by ADA to carry out its first flight by 2020-21.

    With GE already commenced delivery of its F414 engine to India and with more to arrive in next few years, there will be enough engines to commence development of LCA Navy MK2 and LCA-Tejas MK2 in Parallel to conduct the first flight in the 2021-22 period.

    LCA Navy MK2 will incorporate significant changes in design, Aerodynamics along with optimisation of landing gears & Arrester Hook system with integration of updated sensors, avionics and flight control system. LCA Navy MK2’s wings will be moved outboard by about 350mm which will increase space between fuselage and wings thus allowing 700kgs more fuel in the central fuselage which allows more flight durations.

    NOTE : Article cannot be reproduced without written permission of idrw.org in any form
     
  2. S.Balaji

    S.Balaji Regular Member

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    Was at DRDO defense expo in CVRDE Chennai yesterday.....spoke to ADA guy at Tejas stall reg Naval Tejas status, he said that Naval Tejas is on...and noise made by Navy was to withdraw the funding...ADA have continued the project with their own funding ...third prototype is being built as we speak based on the inputs of the tests conducted so far on other prototypes.. he said the engine testing for the 3rd prototype would commence in December....have some other news from the DRDO people...will post in relevent thread with pics
     
  3. Filtercoffee

    Filtercoffee Regular Member

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    According to this event sir we might have 3 types and one more IAC -1.
     
  4. S.Balaji

    S.Balaji Regular Member

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    Remember naval Tejas s also a technical demonstrator to realise viable design for carrier capable fighter aircraft....these designs will help to compress time lines for Ada when they start work on naval amca....having said dat ADA guy also said they are working to reduce weight which s the main grouse of the navy n was confident navy would be happy with the end product....the last part dat was music to my ears was dat after development navy had indicated a requirement of 50 n Ada has budgeted for LSPs also ...remember Ada s using its own funds as navy has discontinued theirs, after the new chief came in....I know given the news about slow death of naval tejas flying around in our forum, the news was a bolt out of blue for me....one thing the npol lab guy who deals with sonars said is almost all news are paid journalistic rubbish heavily favouring foreign product....he also said that they used to have a hearty laugh at our expense after going through different defense forumso_Oo_O reg our knowledge of ongoing programs...
     
  5. Pandora

    Pandora Regular Member

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    You should have asked one of them to join forum and face me atleast.
     
  6. S.Balaji

    S.Balaji Regular Member

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    It s a no-go area for them... Disclosure of on projects of national security s a big no-no in any country....even youngsters are tight lipped...one thing though they have realised that they have to educate public on what they do.....dey did say all successful milestones would announced through official websites.....we would be seeing more outreach programs...it was evident in the way people manning the stalls being very receptive to all the questions throw in.... u should c the RCI lab guy fielding questions regarding the ins-gps module of bhramos from a 10 year old boy....the energy spent to stand on your feet for 8 hrs n explaining their product again n again was amazing....there were also an army officer liaison from the valley very eager to know abt the manpack IED protection n convoy protection system
     
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  7. kunal1123

    kunal1123 Regular Member

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    great going man .............:biggrin2::biggrin2:
    if it will happen tomorrow then well try to find out kaveri engine status................:biggrin2:
     
  8. S.Balaji

    S.Balaji Regular Member

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    Unfortunately yestyrday was the last day of the 3 day expo...1st n 2nd day was exclusively meant for college and school students and the third day was for public.

    GTRE didn't have a stall, however the ADA guy said Kaveri will eventually see service with both Tejas MK1a n 2 ...currently they are in receipt of 5 f414....on queried regarding the size discrepancy between f414 n Kaveri, he said MK2 s designed in such a way that mountings for both the engines are the same...regarding current status he actually didn't know but was confident it will eventually frutify.... he said the current gov has given a big push....the entire Tejas family of MK1,1a,2 n naval is built around kaveri
     
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  9. abingdonboy

    abingdonboy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Did he mention when the N-LCA NPs would be undertaking arrested trail landings bro?
     
  10. Anish1

    Anish1 New Member

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    What is status of this program?

    As Navy not going for Mk1 and the Mk2 not having been designed and the Mk1a (is it designed?) not something Navy going for means will any Tejas variant ever serve the IN?
     
  11. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Refer to post : #682

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  12. S.Balaji

    S.Balaji Regular Member

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    I did ask... ADA guy said it s still not done...my guess s testing would be done on the new naval prototype that will go for engine testing in December.....
     
  13. TPFscopes

    TPFscopes Rest in Peace Senior Member

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    I don't know the criteria of these IDRW guys. They always post a lot of BS :bs:.
    GRIPEN-M did't even have a Tech demonstrator or a prototype where as NLCA already gone through the TD stage . Gripen*M is still a paper plane and these guys compare it with a already available aircraft

    These guys cross their limits when they write "Article cannot be reproduced without written permission of idrw.org in any form" at the end. This line gives me goosebumps and made my day awesome.
     
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  14. TPFscopes

    TPFscopes Rest in Peace Senior Member

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    EXCLUSIVE: Indian Navy Officers Scotch Talk Of ‘Bad-Blood’ Killing LCA Navy
    Shiv AroorSep 06 2017 6 49 pm
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    For all the piles of files and numbingly endless process, who said there’s no drama in Indian military procurement? While the interrelationships of government leaders, diplomats and bureaucrats regularly fuel press room banter, it’s a rare occasion when an alleged ill-feeling between serving military officers is alleged to be the driving factor of a proposed armament purchase. Especially when that allegation flows from the pen of a well-recognised strategic affairs scholar and columnist.

    Bharat Karnad, whose own blog describes him, perhaps a touch immodestly, as ‘India’s foremost conservative strategist’, wrote a blog post this week that his audience and those who track his writings on defence matters would have interpreted as pretty typical Karnad fare — sardonic, aggressively argued, generously infused with details, and eminently readable. Take a moment, if you will, to read Karnad’s column.

    The thrust of what Karnad argues is that the Indian Navy likely dumped the LCA Navy light fighter program last year as a result of a personal hostility between two serving officers: Commodore Jaideep Maolankar, who heads the LCA Navy flight test unit, and his batchmate, Rear Admiral Surendra Ahuja, who oversees the aircraft carrier and warship production/acquisition projects at the Naval Headquarters. Now here’s the operative crux of Karnad’s column which he says is the reason why the Indian Navy decided to walk away from the LCA Navy instead of ordering a crack team to fix the aircraft’s problems and stay committed to seeing it fly off India’s next carrier:

    This was not feasible for many reasons, among them : (1) A personal mountain of reason — bad blood between the lead test pilot in the naval LCA program, Cmde Jaydeep Maolankar, and Rear Admiral Surendra Ahuja, Assistant Controller Carrier Project and Assistant Controller Warship Production and Acquisition at NHQ. By all accounts, Maolankar is a top rated flier dedicated to the Tejas but Ahuja, with no flying experience, is nearer the seat of power and who, perhaps, to spite Maolankar, a batch mate, whose failure to make it to the next rank — however that was managed — was the talk in naval circles, convinced the naval brass that the LCA was no-go, and that its prospects are bleak.

    Those are heavy-duty allegations to make, and one would have perhaps expected a formal rebuttal from the Indian Navy to set the record straight as it sees it. But before we get into what Livefist has heard from top officers in the navy, a quick disclaimer. Livefist has been an unwavering proponent of the LCA program — and your correspondent shares Karnad’s considered view that the LCA Navy doesn’t deserve to be shelved. However, the columnist has chosen to swing a very heavy bat — a practice usually advisable when you’ve got a force field of fact.

    Let’s start with the ludicrously inaccurate claim that Rear Admiral Surendra Ahuja has ‘no flying experience’ — a claim that Karnad appears to gamely rest his argument on. Not only is Ahuja the Indian Navy’s first “new mould” tailhook trapper, he also became the first pilot to land on the INS Vikramaditya in 2013. That Ahuja’s credentials as an aviator even needed burnishing after such a preposterously false attack from an individual widely seen as a respected member of the strategic community is unfortunate in itself. A senior Indian Navy officer who has worked with both Ahuja and Maolankar told Livefist that the Naval HQ had considered formally contesting Karnad’s suggestions, but finally decided not to.

    The officer told Livefist, “A damaging attack has been made. It is therefore very important clarify on these comment made by the author on the professional competence of Rear Admiral Surendra Ahuja. The officer in question is an Experimental Test Pilot and a Flight Instructor, having got the former qualification from the reputed Test Pilot School of the Indian Air Force and the latter from the US Navy. He has flown some 20 odd aircraft, has experience of flying from aircraft carriers, has commanded an Air Squadron and also the prestigious air station at Goa, INS Hansa. He also did the flight evaluation of the MiG-29K in Russia for the Indian Navy and was the founding leader of the Navy’s erstwhile formation aerobatic team ‘Sagarpawan’. It is shocking and surprising that the author has attempted to sully the image of one of the finest naval aviators of the Indian Navy.”

    As you may have noticed, Karnad has ‘augmented’ his column inserted an ‘errata’, apologising for the error in his description of Ahuja’s career credentials. On the motives he ascribes for the ‘abandoning’ of the LCA Navy program, however, Karnad appears to have stuck to his stand that it is an animus between the two officers.

    The senior naval officer quoted above also told Livefist, “To speculate on bad blood between brother officers is malafide and undermines the professional ethos and morale of the armed forces. Further, to speak of professional rivalry in such a manner is damaging to the system and highly irresponsible. Both the officers in question are professionally sound and highly regarded Test Pilots. They are doing the job assigned to them. If professional disagreements do come up in jobs such as these, this is, in fact, reflective of the health of the system and is encouraged.”

    The navy has stood by both officers, who find themselves abruptly thrust into an unseemly and damaging spotlight. Chagrin at Naval Headquarters is also wholly unsurprising, given that Karnad’s column rides on two implications, one intended, the other possibly not. One, that an officer has used personal rivalries to deliberately jimmy the system to favour the purchase of imported aircraft. And two, perhaps unintended but no less scathing, that the officer entrusted with seeing the LCA Navy completed satisfactorily for service, hasn’t been able to sort out what Karnad reduces in his column to a trifle over weight. It is that first suggestion, however, that the navy is understandably more alarmed by.

    To be sure, both Ahuja and Maolankar are among the top crop of naval aviators, both highly qualified former Sea Harrier pilots — and both handpicked to lead the navy into the uncharted seas of future naval aviation.

    Let’s be clear. The suggestion by Karnad that indigenous development has been insidiously sacrificed at the altar of foreign imports isn’t unreasonable per se — nor surprising. It has happened before on too many occasions to name. The vicious cycle of planning, budgets and priorities dooming the golden goose quest for a self reliance ideal remains a hallmark of Indian military modernisation. However, the immediate allegation has clearly injured the navy. In conversations that Livefist had with the officer quoted above, as well as others aware of the LCA Navy program spoke out for the first time on condition of anonymity on the process that led up to the apparently onerous decision to walk away from the LCA Navy. A second officer, speaking to Livefist in the context of Karnad’s column, cast new light stands cast on the contentious 2016 decision that was received with some shock. He said, “To suggest that the Indian Navy’s leadership at the apex and that of the Ministry of Defence, led by the then Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar, himself would get misled by just one or two officers is not reflective of the reality. It is actually proposterous and betrays a lack of understanding of how things really work. There are detailed processes and procedures in place that lead to an eventual decision in the Service HQ and the Ministry of Defence.”

    The officer also shared with Livefist these first ever details on that decision:

    The issue of LCA (Navy) was initially debated at the Naval Headquarters and then in the DRDO HQ wherein both teams [that of the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and that of the Indian Navy] made their points. Based on the discussions, the DRDO senior leadership forwarded their recommendations to the then Defence Minister. The case was then presented to the Ministry of Defence. Those who participated in the meeting included senior representatives from the Indian Navy, Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), National Flight Test Centre (NFTC), DRDO and the Ministry of Defence. All those who attended made their points and an eventual decision was arrived at by the Defence Minister. To refer to this decision in a trifle manner is highly inappropriate and does no good to the nation. It was only after the Minutes of the Meeting were approved by the Ministry of Defence that the Chief of the Naval Staff announced the decision on the Navy Day (04 Dec) last year.”

    As Livefist reported earlier this year, the LCA Navy continues to be funded by the Indian Navy — and therefore continues to fight back. To be sure, the Indian Navy’s quest for new aircraft will be the centrepiece of scrutiny in the months and years ahead (the excellent Stratpost recently did a deep dive on the headwind the navy flies into). We’ve learnt something today. Perhaps there’s more to look forward to. There would be no greater affirmation of the Indian Navy’s comparatively impressive position on indigenous projects than if the LCA Navy Mk.2 receives the support it needs to prove itself worthy of service.

    souce-LiveFist
     
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  15. aditya10r

    aditya10r Mera Bharat mahan Senior Member

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    Very saddening.

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  16. S.Balaji

    S.Balaji Regular Member

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    It confirms wat the ADA guy at DRDO expo in Chennai said that NLCA is tad over weight n that issue would be addressed in future prototypes,he made light of the issue saying all complex machines during the development phase, face overweight issues and he was confident that it will be sorted out. The article also confirms dat funding is being continued, only descrepancy is ADA guy said ADA/HAL is currently funding the program and not the navy.

    ADA guy said 3rd prototype engine testing would be done in Dec.That means the proto is on the assembly line jig right now. If naval version is on jig taking up the space of SP then it is possible HAL s behind schedule by 1 SP, and since it s a proto the timeline for completion would be longer than SP version.We know SP6 is out n SP5 is pending. In this forum I HV read the reason for the delay is ascribed to SP being built on converted assembly line of hawk.

    if any source close to HAL can confirm the above hypothesis, then we can safely infer nlca is going strong....perhaps @TPFscopes can confirm?...We can once for all wipe out gloominess from this thread.
     
  17. Prashant12

    Prashant12 Senior Member Senior Member

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    A N-LCA prototype taking off from the SBTF ramp at INS Hansa

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  18. Kchontha

    Kchontha Regular Member

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    So sad! Looks like import lobyists are at the upper hand at the moment even within the Indian Navy which appears more to be a supporter of indigenous efforts than the other services. But what i am wondering at the moment is why ADA is dragging its feet in regarding NLCA's much anticipated arrested recovery landing at SBTF? Are they also involved in this bandwagon?
     
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  19. sthf

    sthf Senior Member Senior Member

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    Bharat Karnad pulling stuff out of his ass is not at all surprising to people who know him well. India is filled with these so called "defence analyst".

    Shiv Aroor did a bang up job is putting this joker in limelight.
     
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  20. Vinod DX9

    Vinod DX9 Regular Member

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    Not just Mr Karnad, Mr. Shukla too in same league. Shukla sometimes ago posted such news on Dolam issue which turned out to be not true the then time
     

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