National Civil Aviation Sector

[EagleOne]

 

[nandu]

It's Official: India's Regional Jet To Have Turboprop & Turbofan Variants

It's official. As revealed a couple of weeks ago here, India's National Aerospace Laboratory (NAL) will develop the Indian Regional Transport Aircraft (IRTA), designated RTA-70 regional jet, not just as a twin turboprop as earlier believed but a common platform with two variants -- a twin turboprop and a twin turbofan. In addition, both variants will also have stretched versions designated RTA-90. The slides above are a from presentation made by NAL Director Dr AR Upadhya. With the Saras programme in one right mess, it seems a little odd that NAL is proceeding quite rapidly on the RTA programme. Even the national auditor had suggested that NAL drop plans of initiating the project without first getting its house in order as far as the Saras was concerned. It said, "Keeping in view the problems faced by NAL in HANSA and SARAS, projects relating to marketing of the aircrafts, difficulties in finding an industrial partner and lack of specialised manpower, NAL may review initiation of the new project for development of a 70 seater aircraft." And this was before the Saras crash of March 2009.

http://livefist.blogspot.com/

 

[nrj]

What, now they got some Russian engineer friends brought for rescue they will make two variants? Why not revise entire Program??

More excuses & more delays is making RTA loose its market. They should save Turbofan for some newer & better project.

 

[plugwater]

Russia to help modernize Indian Saras jets

The Indian Saras light transport aircraft will be upgraded at the Myasishchev Experimental Machine Building Plant in Moscow, a defense industry source told Interfax-AVN.

"A framework contract was signed last September to upgrade and certify the Saras plane and to develop plane modifications in 2010-2011," he said.

India built two Saras planes and one of them crashed during a test flight. The second plane will be modernized with Russian help, he said.

"Saras test flights will start at the end of this year or at the beginning of next year," he said.

http://www.russiandefenseblog.org/?p=1317

 

[Rahul Singh]

Interview: NAL's 5,000cr RTA-70 commercial aircraft programme

17 Jul 2010

8ak: With both Boeing and Airbus predicting that India will need around 1,000 commercial jets in the next 2 decades and forecasting a domestic traffic increase of 10% to 12% there is little doubt that there is a decent demand for a regional commercial aircraft. After the unfortunate crash of the 14-seater, Saras plane in March 2009, National Aerospace Laboratory NAL is back with a more ambitious plan to build a larger 70-90 seater aircraft termed RTA-70. In this regard we spoke to QuEST Chairman Aravind Melligeri about the project.

8ak: Please explain the current status of the RTA 70 project

Melligeri: The project is at a very early stage. NAL will build a design bureau and should plan on a quick initial configuration freeze after talking to potential customers. This will help it build a detailed business plan and seek appropriate funds and support from the government, as well as other risk sharing partners. This program is being viewed as a major public-private initiative. The challenge for NAL would be to design a plane from scratch and build it to be globally competitive standards.

8ak: One problem with Saras was the 100% indigenisation objective whereas the world is moving towards a global supply chain. What are their views on working with external partners?

Melligeri: In discussions with NAL they have not given any indication that they would exclude anyone who can help provide the solution within the parameters. They want to ensure that the program is not under any risk that could arise from any embargos as well as that there are no black boxes in terms of transfer of technology.

This public-private initiative will help bring together the best in class of local and global talent for the design, development, manufacturing, serial production and program management of the RTA-70 programme. We from QuEST have offered the key stakeholders that we can support in these initiatives of tapping global resources for the success of the programmes. We have had some preliminary discussion with the RTA-70 program team from NAL in this regard. We are also sensitive to needs and the risk of embargo and will assit in safeguarding against these risks. NAL should not risk being on a learning curve with this programme.

8ak: Is it fair to assume that the plane will not be cost-competitive and hence difficult to force at least the civilian and export markets if not also defence?

Melligeri: On a program like this, the key cost overrun contributors are typically- poor configuration definition, late design modifications, lack of timely decision making, poor or weak programme management, programme delays, all these have a huge impact on cost and its amortization over the life of the programme. These factors can very easily make a programme unviable of excessive investment upfront We have seen even the most seasoned global aerospace majors tripping up on these factors. NAL cannot afford to have delivery timelines stretched and it has to take advantage of India's lower cost base. Cost of aluminium, composites, actuation/landing gear, engines etc are all pretty standard across the globe. It also needs to calearly understand for what aspects it needs to tap global capabilities because these are not available in India or are not mature enough in India and could place a huge risk on the programme.

Besides the funds, the government has to ensure that there are enough orders from the civilian and military side. While it has control over military purchases, currently there is no import duty or offsets on the purchase of commercial aircraft by Indian air transport operators. The government will have to look at certain policies to make the project viable.

India itself has sufficient demand. Air India has only 2 Bombardier CRJ (Vayudoot) regional jets in the 80 to 100 seater range. The growth in Indian aviation will come from regional airports which do not have the infrastructure to handle larger planes. Take for example the Hubli and Kolhapur airstrips where most of the commercial airliners cannot land their large planes. This will be a major demard driver for this programme..

8ak: What is the opportunity for the private sector?

Melligeri: QuEST has shared with the programme leadership team as well as with NAL that QuEST and its partners can assist in the initial configuration definition phase, design studies, detail design, sub-systems engineering, manufacturing, supply and programme management. Given the 5,000 (US$1.1 billion) crore project cost and a 30 year lifecycle of the aircraft, private sector players will also have opportunities in the maintenance, repairs and operations of the aircraft.

 

[EagleOne]

Artistic impression

 

[nrj]

I would also be interested to see if NAL has any "artistic impression of actual orders"..... :emot154:

 

[sandeepdg]

can military variant be also developed on the lines of CN235

Mate, first let the civilian version take to the skies !! Not sure though about what justification can it do to the military role other than light troop transport.

 

[nrj]

RTA's Makeover

India's National Civil Aircraft Development (NCAD) design bureau, under the National Aerospace Laboratory, had initially projected two variants of its Regional Transport Aircraft (RTA) with massive (95%) commonality in fuselage, empennage and wing design -- something that befuddled many. The new picture shows the base turboprop concept as it always has been, but the turbofan variant is all-new -- low wing, no T-tail for starters. There goes NAL's ludicrously optimistic dream of 95% commonality of airframe and non-engine systems between both variants.

Source:Livefist

 

[nitesh]

Defunct Humanity: Saras-Duet saga is resolved for good

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Mate, first let the civilian version take to the skies !! Not sure though about what justification can it do to the military role other than light troop transport.

Future platform for Indian made AWACS, Present configuration is on Embraer-145..

May be this is the future platform for Indian AWACS..

 

[Sridhar]

An update on Saras front

Sunday, September 12, 2010

Saras-Duet saga is resolved for good

​

As the Russian Interfax-AVN news agency reported in Sept. 8 the light 14-passengers aircraft Saras will follow the modernization according to Myasishchev's specialists recommendations. 'Till today the part of the work was already done. Particularly the expertize of what already done by the Indian specialists was conducted. The package of propositions for modernization was formulated' - said the source in Russian military-industrial complex. 'The second stage of the work is planned to start in Oct. 2010 and finish during the year, although elongation of this schedule is not excluded' - he considers: 'It will be more specific work on finishing, including ground tests. Not much changes in design is expected, but the questions about the safeness and controllability are remained, i.e. the problems which were not resolved by Indians'.



He pointed out that Saras-1 airframe will be modernized, since Saras-2 was crashed. However, in parallel the building of Saras-3 will start.

​

Saras was developed in India on the base of Myasishchev's M-102 'Duet' project, but during the development of Indian version the Indian specialists confronted some problems, the source confirmed. Saras has two PT6A-66 engines 850 h.p. each. Its maximal take-of weigh is 6100 kg. According to some reports, Indian AF intent to buy up to 45 these aircrafts, while Indian Navy - 15 planes minimum. Saras will change the vanila planes An-2, de Havilland Twin Otter and others.

Take-off mas (kg) 5700-6100 depending of engine
Payload 1300
Manufacturing: India, Russia
Purpose: Passenger, Administrative, Business Jet
Pass 14 persons
Range (km) 2000
Cruise Speed 550 (km/h)
Max Speed 650
Wings, м 14.70
Lenght, м 14.95
Height, м 5.25
Altitude 9000
Crew 2

​

BTW, on an Ukrainian Internet marketing site an offer for selling Saras plane with two Russian engines TVD-20M 2x 1375 h.p. has appeared. Disregarding how serious such offer can look just now, this fact itself certainly confirms the existence of great interest for this plane in the post-soviet countries. So, let's wait and see...
Posted by Igor Djadan at 1:28 PM

Defunct Humanity: Saras-Duet saga is resolved for good

 

[Patriot]

India takes first steps towards own regional aircraft

BY:Business Standards

India's very own Regional Transport Aircraft, or RTA, is taking shape. This is notwithstanding the criticism heaped on the indigenous small passenger aircraft programmes like Saras and Hansa.

An RTA is said to be more suitable for a place like India where within a radius of 300-400 km of a big city you have another one.

The Rs 3,000-4,000 crore project was set-in motion a month earlier by the Defense Research and Development Organisation. National Aeronautics Limited is the nodal agency for the design of the aircraft. Hindustan Aeronautics Limited is expected to produce it.

The project is expected to give a shot in the arm to the aviation sector in the country. RTA is more suitable to reach places within a 500-km radius. The aircraft would have a range of 600 km to 800 km. HAL and the NAL have not decided on many aspects of the aircraft such as work share, funding and even whether the aircraft will have a turbo-prop or turbo jet engine. NAL had held discussions with Pratt & Whitney (Canada) and General Electric (US) for an engine.

Quest Global, the outsourced manufacturing company, is now in the design team for RTA. It hopes to be involved in the manufacturing too.

"It is the point-to-point connecting ability of RTAs that could make it popular today, and could hold sway in future too," said Aravind Melligeri, Chairman & Co-founder of Quest Global. The hub-and-spoke model is not favoured by many who do not want to get on or off aircrafts to reach their destination.

About 400 of these regional jets are expected to be manufactured. Of these, 200 will go to the armed forces.

The CSIR-funded project draws from the experience derived from developing the Saras and the Hansa. "The two projects showed that NAL can design an aircraft," said Melligeri.

But, is there a market big enough for the aircraft to spend that much money? "There is a market for it in India. The next phase of growth in the aviation industry would be tier-II and tier-III cities," said Amber Dubey, director, KPMG. The RTA would also cater to the needs of different sectors such as tourism, SEZs, ports, and cargo hubs. Such places may not have the critical mass to justify a B-737 or A-320. With a runway requirement of around 900m, the RTA can help revive many of the old unused airstrips in the country," added Dubey.

"The pricing will have to be strategic. It is destined to face retaliatory action from the market leader ATR. It will need government support in the initial phase," added Dubey.

"Collaborative development would be key. There is no point in reinventing the wheel on some of the critical elements like engines, avionics, composites among other things for which a reliable global supply chain exists," Dubey said. "These can be indigenised over the longer term."

But, it's the question of having the capability in India. The MROs and aerospace SEZ, for instance, could play a big role in helping India develop indigenous capabilities over time. NAL held a pre-bid conference for avionics for the regional transport aircraft for the RTA, the 70-seater aircraft.

From India, for supplying the avionics system, companies like TCS, Accord Software and Systems, HAL Edgewood, Axis Technology, participated to get more information on the future requirements.

The project has got the sanction for the first stage with a funding of about Rs 300 crore which has already been given by the government. This stage involves high-level design. "Additional funding will be secured as the project makes progress," said sources from NAL.

It will be a combination of Indian and foreign avionics. Rockwell Collins and Diehl Aerospace, the German aerospace firm, are among companies vying to bag the project to supply some of the systems. Indian engineering helps reduce engineering costs.

The MROs in Nagpur and elsewhere and the aerospace park in Belgaum of Quest are helping build capacity. The sub-assemblies and sub-systems may be brought in as part of the offset programme.

India has been well behind other countries that are developing an RTA. Japan, in 10 years, has managed to develop the Mitsubishi RJ.

Russians and Chinese too are right in front in developing the aircraft. Sukhoi Superjet-100 of Russia and the ARJ21 regional jet is being developed in China, by the AVIC-I Commercial Aircraft Company (ACAC), based in Shanghai, which is a consortium of six companies and aerospace research institutes carrying out the development and manufacture of the aircraft. But, warn experts, unlike the LCA programme, it should stick to the timeline set.

Technologies required would include a laminar flow wing, hydrophobic coatings, use of low cost composites, fly-by-wire controls, advanced avionics that will enable the use of ill-equipped airfields, integrated vehicle health monitoring among others, said an NAL source.

In August 2008 former President A P J Abdul Kalam said India can produce small passenger jets by 2020. For this, India needs to make optimum use of its technology in the aerospace sector.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Good news for the aviation industry. With this they can by cheap and good air-crafts in INDIA itself.

 

[Patriot]

With Foreign Help, Troubled Saras Crawling Back To Life

With expert consultancies from Italy's Piaggio Aero and Russia's Myasischev Experimental Design Bureau (MDB), India's Saras light transport aircraft programme, plagued by development hurdles and a tragic crash of its second prototype, will finally get back to flight testing next year. As part of a comprehensive recovery programme following the crippling crash on March 6 last year, the first Saras prototype PT-1 is being converted into a PT-2+ standard, and programme is also attempting to finish fabrication of two production standard aircraft (PSA) to join the flight test routine. The consultancies with Piaggio and MDB were necessary after India's civil aviation authority concluded that fundamental design flaws had caused [PDF] last year's crash. The two companies are helping the Saras team completely redesign the aircraft's nacelles.













http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/11/troubled-saras-crawling-back-to-life.html

 

[pmaitra]

While I am happy that we are moving ahead, whenever I see the turbofan engine I think why are we not using jet engine any reason? Looks like old tech to me but I am no expert.

Turbofan is an improved modification of the basic jet engine. A turbofan is essentially a jet engine in itself, that is more economical. Since the context here is passenger aircraft, economics is important. Please see the videos below:

 

[SpArK]

National Civil Aircraft Development: You can join if you have the ability

India's regional aircraft could be a jet​

India's first indigenous regional aircraft, the RTA-70, could be powered by turbofan engines, with the government viewing it as a stepping stone to larger aircraft.


Although the RTA-70 (regional transport aircraft-70) was originally envisaged as a 70- to 90-seat turboprop, the Indian government asked National Aerospace Laboratories to investigate the use of turbofans. NAL is studying the two options, and will report to the government in April 2011, after which a decision will be made.

"The government asked us to look at the turbofan option, and after we conduct a feasibility study, we will decide," says NAL director AR Upadhya. "Previously, we were focusing only on a high-wing turboprop design. If all goes well, by the end of 2011 we will have full go-ahead to create the aircraft."


NAL has been in talks with jet engine producers, including General Electric, Pratt & Whitney, Rolls-Royce and Snecma. It says all have shown interest in the project.

"Initially, we were looking only at the turboprop option because of the high price of fuel," says Upadhya. "Lifecycle costs were our key concern. The government then asked us to look at the turbofan option, because they see it as a stepping stone to the high end."

NAL foresees demand for regional aircraft in India reaching 250 by 2025. This is driven by India's increasingly wealthy middle class, and its demand for flights on low-cost carriers. In addition, industries are moving into India's smaller cities, increasing the viability of regional flights to those destinations.



NAL also sees possible demand for 150 military variants to replace the Indian air force's Antonov An-32 fleet.

Irrespective of the RTA-70's powerplant, it is likely to come in two variants - a shorter one with 70-90 seats and a longer one with 80-100 seats. Its range will be 1,350nm (2,500km), suitable for most long sectors in India. Avionics are likely to be produced locally, and include an indigenous fly-by-wire control system to save weight.

Upadhya estimates the aircraft could be in service as soon as 2017, and NAL is open to international and local partners. The aircraft would be produced by government-owned Hindustan Aeronautics.
If India were to produce the RTA-70 as a jet, it would find itself in the increasingly crowded field of 50- to 100-seat regional jets. Competitors would include the Bombardier CSeries, Comac ARJ21 Embraer's E-Jets and the Sukhoi Superjet.

Boeing 747 and Airbus A380 Aircraft News from Flightglobal

 

[Tshering22]

Mahindra Aerospace said this week its new five-seat airplane, which would be India's first indigenous GA aircraft, is expected to fly for the first time next month. According to Indian news sources, the NM5-100 will sell for "20 percent less than a similar aircraft from Cessna." The company has been working for a several years in partnership with India's National Aerospace Laboratories to design the airplane, which is expected to meet FAR Part 23 standards. A larger version of the airplane also is in the works, which would seat 8 to 10. The company has said it plans to become India's first manufacturer serving the GA market, with four to six models for global distribution. :balle:


The NM5-100 is an all-metal aircraft, with a composite cowling and fairings. It is expected to be used for air taxi, light cargo and medevac, as well as training. Mahindra acquired a majority stake in Australia's Gippsland Aeronautics in 2010.


http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/MahindrasFiveSeatAircraftToLaunchSoon_204018-1.html

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Tshering22]

Kunal, what say that this aircraft could be damn useful for BSF and Coast Guard (with seaplane modifications)?