NAL Saras

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by sasi, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. Abhi9

    Abhi9 Regular Member

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    [​IMG]
    Pic has been taken recently by a member of Bharat-rakshak
     
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  2. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Senior Member

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    I am not an expert, I remember something from a national geographic program.

    Isn't it considered a inefficient design if wings are attached to the bottom of the fuselage? In all modern planes wings are either attached from the middle or top of the fuselage.

    Or is it that , this placement is fine in case of planes with lighter loads.

    Experts can give a view.
     
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  3. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    HAL Seeking Private Sector Partner to Manufacture its 320 daN turbojet for missiles / drones

    [​IMG]

    HAL intends to design and develop a 320 daN (326 kgf) thrust class jet engine for various applications.The single spool turbo jet engine would have an envelope diameter of 310 mm and length of 740 mm.

    It would be capable of operating in altitude range of Sea Level to 8.5 km.The engine would have a SFC of 1.175 kg/daN-h, a starting envelop of 8.5 km to SL @ 0.4 to 0.8M, endurance of 1,000 sec

    Physical Parameters and Weight

    Length <= 740mm (Excluding LRUs)
    Diameter <= 310mm
    Dry weight < 44-kg (Excluding LRUs and cartridge Starter)

    Initial Requirement
    2 engines for Technology Demonstrator (TD)
    10 prototype engines for various certifications / qualification trials
    5 deliverable engines for limited series production

    Private Sector Manufacturing Partnership

    HAL on May 31, 2016 released a RFI for 'Selection of an Indian partner to manufacture aero engine in India.'

    The due date for submission of a response to the RFI is August 10, 2016

    HAL has invited interested Indian partners to undertake the manufacture of the engine by establishing all the required facilities including test rigs and engine test bed. HAL will manufacture 2 technology demonstrators and 3 qualification test units.

    In the proposed partnership arrangement, the marketing of end product will be in the scope of HAL.

    The current projection is to produce about 12 engines over 2 years time frame after initial development phase. The engine under development is likely to undergo changes during the productionisation. Once the development phase is completed, it is anticipated that the total no of engines required would be around 250 over 5 to 6 year period.

    Source : http://thumkar.blogspot.in/2016/07/hal-seeking-private-sector-partner-to.html

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    It is very speculative now, That we might not see Rustom-2 anytime soon ..

    Instead of going for a turbo prop or piston, They might go for this engine ..
     
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  4. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    RCI Developing 275-kgf Thrust Engine

    RCI is developing a 275 kgf thrust Small Gas Turbine Jet Engine (SGTJE) to power a UCAV capable of cruising at 0.8M at SL. RCI will take assistance from NAL's Propulsion Division for design and analysis, engine cycle analysis and configuration of the turbojet engine. RCI has also sought private sector, Indian or foreign, participation in the detailed design of the 275-kgf thrust SGTJE. Project duration is specified as one year from project start.

    Possible Application
    The engine is required to be air start capable suggesting it is being developed for a cruise missile. The 275-kgf thrust requirement suggests a relatively smaller, possibly air launched, cruise missile. It maybe noted that the Nirbhay, powered by a 500-kgf thrust Saturn engine, would hopefully be replaced by the 425-kgf Manik engine being developed by GTRE.

    Source : http://thumkar.blogspot.in/2015/10/rci-developing-275-kgf-thrust-cruise.html
     
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  5. Prashant12

    Prashant12 Senior Member Senior Member

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    SARAS Project On Road To Revival

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    The 14-seater ambitious Saras project of National Aeronautics Limited (NAL) might see fair weather again with the government mulling a revival plan for the same. The Council for Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR), that had almost shelved the plan, is on a rethinking mode with additional funding in the pipeline.

    As reported earlier, the funding for Saras project had dried up during UPA-2’s fag end putting the entire project into a spin. The project was already mired in overweight issues, a crash and a scathing CAG probe in a span of 11 years since its first flight in 2004.

    ASTE had lost two Test Pilots and a Flight Test Engineer in the Saras crash in 2009. Now, the ASTE officials confirm the ‘revival plan,‘ having attended meeting(s) aimed at getting the platform back on the air.

    Sitara, the Intermediate Jet Trainer of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, is also on the ‘recovery mode’ after being in the ‘ICU’ for many years now. The project seems to have got a new impetus for its ‘spin and stall’ trials.
    http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news...i-to-fire-brahmos-in-3-months-aste--1.1402970
     
  6. G10

    G10 Regular Member

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    High time both these projects should be worked on immediately.
     
  7. mahesh

    mahesh Regular Member

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    Road clearance is soo low, i wonder bangalore traffic police will fine NAL for that :p
    on the otherhand, how this aircraft will handle cross wind landing with such wing profile ?
     
  8. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Here are the differences:
    Code:
    |---|--------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------|
    |   | Bottom Mounted Wing                        | Top Mounted Wing                           |
    |---|--------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------|
    | 1 | Low centre-of-lift.                        | High centre-of-lift.                       |
    | 2 | Higher ground effect.                      | Lower ground effect.                       |
    | 3 | Better top visibility.                     | Better bottom visibility.                  |
    | 4 | Keeps aerofoils closer to the ground,      | Keeps aerofoils far from ground,           |
    |   | sensitive to debris from ground,           | allows engines to be debris free,          |
    |   | and requires well prepared landing strips. | and is good for unprepared landing strips. |
    |---|--------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------|
    • This is not exhaustive.
    • There are advantages and disadvantages to both.
     
  9. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    [​IMG]

    I am just going to leave this here ..
     
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  10. kstriya

    kstriya Regular Member

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    let me add, should be seen in NAL Saras. The way the propellers are placed it should be able to takeoff and land on unpaved or partially paved air strips..
     
  11. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Published on Jan 11, 2016
    CSIR NAL 14 Seat Aircraft SARAS
     
  12. Prashant12

    Prashant12 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Good news on India's Saras aircraft front. To fly again in July-Aug.
     
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  13. singh100ful

    singh100ful Regular Member

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    Now this government is working the way everyone wanted.
     
  14. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Senior Member

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    Saras may be coming back because Jayanth Sinha( aviation minister) wants to promote low cost airlines in tier2 and 3 towns and cities.

    But unless Saras manages to loose the extra weight, it stands no chance.
     
  15. singh100ful

    singh100ful Regular Member

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    There was some news of NAL using Composites extensively for bringing the weight down.
     
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  16. Prashant12

    Prashant12 Senior Member Senior Member

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    India to revive three aircraft programmes

    BENGALURU: The renewed thrust for regional connectivity and the Indian Air Force's need to replace some of its transport aircraft fleet will see India revive three aircraft programmes, all being designed in Bengaluru, including the re-engined and modified version of the ambitious 14-seater Saras aircraft.

    The National Laboratories Limited (NAL), which first conceived Saras as a civil aircraft has been pushing for a military certification in the past two years, hoping to sell the aircraft to the Indian Air Force (IAF).

    Saras, the Light Transport Aircraft has presently been handed over to the Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment of IAF, and NAL is hopeful of having the first flight in about 45 days. NAL Director Jitendra Jadhav said: "The modified Saras will have a configurable configuration. While the design is for a 14-seater plane, it can be configured to accommodate 19."

    Union Minister for Science and Technology Harsh Vardhan, who had a meeting with Jadhav, said that the Centre is completely behind the project and that it will provide complete support, including fulfilling any financial requirement. "NAL has improved a lot in the past one-and-a-half years and I want to assure them that no project will suffer for want of funds," he said.

    Jadhav said that manufacturing of two Limited Series Prototypes will require Rs 400 crore to Rs 500 crore. "The final product will be taken care of by the IAF, but we will need this much money for the prototypes," he said.

    If the project is truly revived Saras will boast of multi-role capabilities like feeder line aircraft, air ambulance, executive aircraft, troop transport, reconnaissance, aerial survey and light cargo transport.


    The Saras programme had come crashing down after a 2009 accident. The original design included a maximum take-off weight of 6,100kg and a maximum payload of 1,232kg. The first prototype which completed its maiden flight on May 29, 2004, was overweight at 5,118kg compared to the 4,125kg design specifications.

    70-seater aircraft

    Harsh Vardhan and Jadhav, added the 70-seater aircraft programme—which has consistently failed to take off from the drawing board—will also be revived given the renewed emphasis on regional connectivity.

    As of now only a paper design is complete as the project was shelved about three years ago. "The aircraft will now be re-configured, given that the regional transportation police will require capacity building," Harsh Vardhan said. When the project was shelved, NAL projected an estimated cost of Rs 9,000 crore.

    Sources told TOI that that the aircraft, which will be capable of short take-off will be able to operate from smaller airfields and airports that the Regional Connectivity Policy is aiming to revive.
    Jadhav said that part of the re-configuration will be looking at a next-generation turbo prop engine.

    NAL-Mahindra joint project

    Further, NM5-100, the 5-seater aircraft jointly developed by NAL and Mahindra Aerospace, testing of which was being done in Australia since 2011-12 after it was felt that the Director General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) lacked the expertise to certify aircraft, will be brought back to India for certification.

    "There have been 12 flights in Australia. Now the DGCA has improved and they have about 20 engineers in Bengaluru. We will be bringing the aircraft back to India for certification," Jadhav said.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-aircraft-programmes/articleshow/57187607.cms
     
  17. Prashant12

    Prashant12 Senior Member Senior Member

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  18. charlie

    charlie Regular Member

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    .........................................................
     
  19. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    NAL Saras is better off with Indian jet turbine engines rather than imported costly turbo props, This is however a proposition ..


    [​IMG]

    The engine is advertised for use in business jets, If they fail to use this engine on an Indian platform which is depended on imported expensive design, It would be unfortunate ..
     
  20. Prashant12

    Prashant12 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Up Close & Personal With India’s Reborn Saras Light Aircraft

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    SARAS PT1N ready for April Low-Speed Taxi Trials

    Eight years ago, on 6 March 2009, the second prototype of India’s Saras light civil aircraft crashed near Bengaluru, killing its three-man Indian Air Force test crew. Already beset with technical challenges not uncommon to aviation development, the accident very nearly ended the project. The programme went into an inevitable downward spiral until it veritably departed consciousness, even that of its principal intended customer, the Indian Air Force. The eight year struggle to keep the aircraft project alive has largely remained unknown, with few details emerging from a project that was all but written off. Livefist has now had a chance to interview the new chief of the agency that is fighting to meet a June-July target to get a modified first prototype (See photo) back in the air. In a very candid and wide-ranging interview to Livefist, his first since taking over as director of the National Aerospace Laboratories (CSIR-NAL), Jitendra J. Jadhav provides the first detailed inside view of the Saras’ enormously difficult journey from death, back to life. Our interaction in full:

    Why has it taken eight years for the SARAS programme to be in a position to return to flight test?

    After the unfortunate accident on 6th March, 2009, all the activities related to SARAS aircraft had to be stopped till completion of accident investigation by DGCA and subsequent implementation of recommendations thereon. The investigation absolved CSIR-NAL of any design deficiencies, but attributed the cause to procedural deficiencies. Other major factors for this delay in resumption of programme were: Change of Regulatory body from DGCA to CEMILAC to meet certification requirements of IAF as the possible launch customer; re-orientation time for CSIR-NAL to the procedures of military certification agency and the time for the regulatory body to get a grasp on the project, as the entry was lateral and at an advanced stage of project. By the time the first prototype was modified and ready for Taxi trials at the end of year 2013, the project had reached its date of completion and CSIR-NAL had to wait for a formal approval from Govt to continue further. This was crucial as the project had important stake holders like HAL, IAF, CEMILAC and DGAQA towards further flight testing and certification of SARAS.

    What challenges have been faced by the programme in the last eight years, including the lessons learned from the 2009 accident?

    The main challenges faced were / are heavy attrition of trained human resources, obsolescence of critical aircraft systems and LRU’s, vendor reluctance to respond to CSIR-NAL minimal requirements (which is specific to prototype development wherein only one or two systems are built), availability of experienced Test pilots for twin-turboprop configurations for full project duration, availability of dedicated staff from regulatory body due to their preoccupation in several projects of national importance and fund availability for prototype development activity with inbuilt risk of failures.

    [​IMG]
    SARAS PT1 being modified into SARAS PT1N

    What specific changes have been made to the first prototype compared to its earlier configuration?

    Major changes made to the first prototype, termed PT1N, are upgrading the propulsive system including efficient nacelle, larger metallic rudder for improved controllability, new landing-gear actuators, new brake system to cater to the needs of higher AUW, improved FCS, flame resistant design for nacelle etc.

    What are the flight test/IOC/FOC delivery timelines for the SARAS? Can you share figures of total expenditure on the project so far, plus intended expenditure until delivery to customer.

    Shortly, CSIR-NAL will carry out flight-testing and evaluation of PT1N aircraft which will provide essential information towards arriving at aircraft configuration for the subsequent weight optimized build for Limited Series Production. Also the developmental flights of Saras PT1N will lead to evaluation of performance and handling characteristics of the aircraft to fine tune the design modifications. This would further pave the way forward towards arriving at an aircraft which will be suitable to meet the IAF requirements through LSP phase.

    Total approved budget for the 10thplan proposal project “Spearheading small civil aircraft design, development and manufacture” is INR 297 crores. It is prudent to mention here that the Human resources created in all aspects of civil aircraft design, prototype manufacturing, development of machining centers across the country which can produce airworthy components, the assets like excellent aircraft hangar, state-of-the-art telemetry centre etc., far outweigh the money spent on the project.

    What is the productionisation/manufacturing plan for SARAS — what is the sales/export forecast?

    Once the aircraft is mid-way to certification and the final SOP is frozen, an industrial partner will be identified towards productionisation /manufacturing. Initially IAF has shown interest in acquiring 15 aircraft and it is hoped that this could further go up to at least 50.

    What new roles are envisaged from the SARAS other than light commute and logistics?

    SARAS can also be useful for Air ambulance, Maritime Patrolling, Border surveillance, Commutation for regional connectivity and Special Missions. Apart from these applications, SARAS can be used as an excellent flying test bed for new LRU development and qualification. This is so because of the simple reason that the build of SARAS is totally indigenous and can be updated or modified for LRU testing and qualification.

    What is the current status of the National Civil Aircraft (NCA) programme of which NAL is an integral part?

    At CSIR-NAL, studies have been carried out regarding developing a Regional Transport Aircraft (RTA). The feasibility study indicated: about 250-300 aircraft for India (20 year demand forecast), international market demand for over 7000 RTA class of aircraft and military transport of this class in India : ~150 aircraft (replacement for An-32 and HS748). The suggested model by the High Power Committee is technology development funding by government and equipping/manufacturing in a JV/SPV mode. Presently, CSIR-NAL is contemplating on Phase 1 of the development (ie.) preliminary design phase (PDP). It is envisaged that, CSIR-NAL along with public/private partnership can come together to take this initiative forward with the government.

    What is the export scenario of NAL aircraft and systems at this time?

    CSIR-NAL is planning for 2 seat ab-initio aircraft Hansa – Next Generation with advanced features aimed at low acquisition cost, low operating cost and minimum maintenance. The project once approved and implemented, we envisage the private partner to take up production and marketing not only catering to Indian market but also to other developing countries.

    Further, we are in partnership and collaborative mode with M/s Mahindra Aerospace for the development and certification of CNM-5 aircraft both in India and Australia. While the certification of CASA in Australia will be the responsibility M/s Mahindra acquired Gibbs Aerospace, discussion are in progress with Mahindra Aerospace for manufacturing Five Seat General Aviation Aircraft (CNM5) Prototype Leading to FAR 23 Certifications by the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) in India. With Indian and Australian certificate in place it would be easy for us to market the CNM5 aircraft abroad.

    https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...-with-indias-reborn-saras-light-aircraft.html
     
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