NAL Saras

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by sasi, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. sasi

    sasi Senior Member Senior Member

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    http://www.nal.res.in/pdf/ch1dir.pdf
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    NAL Director's Report 2011-12
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    During the year considerable progress was made in manufacturing activities related to parts of SARAS PT1-N and PT3. PT1-N is SARAS converted to PT2 standards and PT3 the production standard SARAS aircraft.
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    The laboratory achieved a significant breakthrough in the development of electronic systems for SARAS during the year.
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    A number of unique and potentially-patentable technologies for civil aircraft avionics were developed: PCI bus-based express switchingscheme for dual-redundant open architecture integrated modular avionics computing platform; dual-redundant, ARINC-818 architecture for the cockpit display system with distributed graphics processor interacting with main processor; redundant-configurable display system, and an advanced civil aircraftavionics architecture with dual-redundancy are currently in various stages ofdevelopment, integration and testing.
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    Last edited: Nov 20, 2012
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  3. venkat

    venkat Regular Member

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    *** good to hear about SARAS...How about the flight controls issue? excess weight of 500Kg++? Has the weight been shed? The report says about avionics...not about the flight worthiness,certification etc...
     
  4. sasi

    sasi Senior Member Senior Member

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    I don't think it as excess wt is the problem. They said by using composite they can further reduce 500kg of wt. They also said they are going for higher thrust engine(from Canada ?). Problems seems to be abt flight control.
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  5. Yatharth Singh

    Yatharth Singh Regular Member

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    No weight issues as of now. Empty weight is reduced to <5000 kg.
    An old article,

    India’s Indigenous Saras Aircraft to Fly by Year-End as NAL Modifies Its Air-Frame and Engine

    "The ‘Saras’ light transport aircraft project has undergone major modifications to sort out its weight issue. The designed empty weight of the Saras aircraft was around 4,125 kg while the first prototype weighed in around 5,118 kg. Hence, the discrepancy was sorted out by using advanced composite components. These included composite wings, pressure bulkhead, fuselage top skin and weight-optimised fuselage structure. NAL is currently applying these changes and the third Saras prototype is under fabrication at the lab. The Saras PSA’s weight has been reduced by 500 kg, according to NAL."

    http://www.defencenow.com/news/469/indias-indigenous-saras-aircraft-to-fly-by-year-end-as-nal-modifies-its-air-frame-and-engine.html
     
  6. rahulrds1

    rahulrds1 Regular Member

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  7. rahulrds1

    rahulrds1 Regular Member

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  8. rahulrds1

    rahulrds1 Regular Member

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  9. rahulrds1

    rahulrds1 Regular Member

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  10. rahulrds1

    rahulrds1 Regular Member

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  11. Sam2012

    Sam2012 Tihar Jail Banned

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    Can Saras be converted into Short range ASW & Maritime surveliance ? and even short range AWACS for Indian Navy shore based facility
     
  12. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    It wont be an AWACS but certainly can take role of light Aircraft donier 228..
     
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  13. rahulrds1

    rahulrds1 Regular Member

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    Documentary - NAL SARAS ( Light Multi-Utility Aircraft )

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  14. Yatharth Singh

    Yatharth Singh Regular Member

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    Creative minds indeed ! :D

    First, at least, let it get commissioned for what it was originally sought to. False hopes lead us nowhere.
     
  15. arnabmit

    arnabmit Homo Communis Indus Senior Member

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    Saras set to fly again

    After being in an indeterminate state for five years, India’s first multi-role light transport aircraft programme is once again on track as a new prototype of the Saras aircraft and is set to fly soon.”

    The Saras programme to develop a 14-seater aircraft overseen by the National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL) suffered a major setback following the crash of an aircraft prototype in the outskirts of Bangalore, resulting in the death of three Indian Air Force (IAF) officers who were onboard the ill-fated aircraft.

    “We are going to have the first flight of the Saras (PT-N) soon and preparations are on for it,” said an NAL official. The maiden flight of the aircraft will be conducted by the IAF’s Aircraft Systems and Testing Establishment (ASTE).

    NAL has so far developed two prototypes of the Saras aircraft—PT1 and PT2. It was the PT2 that crashed in 2009. Following the PT2 crash due to an incorrect relight procedure, the Saras programme was written off, with many questioning the need for India developing such an aircraft.

    However, the Council of Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR)—to which NAL is an affiliated laboratory—went ahead with the project and that apart the father of one of the IAF Officers who was killed in the crash had also asked the government not to give up the project, stating that completion of the project would be a fitting tribute to his son.

    Meanwhile, NAL as part of Saras programme recovery plan has converted the Saras PT1 to Saras PT-N and this aircraft corresponds to the Saras PT2. This modified prototype is equipped with the Canadian Pratt & Whitney PT6-67A engine.

    That apart, it also has a new engine stub wing and nacelle, landing gear actuators, and some improvement have been made to the flight control and flap systems.

    Along with the PT-N, NAL is also currently developing the PT3 which is christened as the ‘production standard Saras aircraft’. This aircraft which will weigh 500 kg lesser than its predecessors and is expected to be flight tested by the end of the year.

    The IAF has placed an order for 15 Saras aircraft, which will be manufactured by the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited. The postal department has also expressed interest in procuring the aircraft to deliver mails.
     
  16. acetophenol

    acetophenol Regular Member

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    We are already experts with Dorniers,will it make any sense for introducing Saras to replace Dorniers when Dorniers are having a scope for in house upgrades and mods?
     
  17. Twinblade

    Twinblade Senior Member Senior Member

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    Saras' main target is low cost civilian carriers and government requirements for 12-15 seaters. Dornier-228 doesn't offer a comfortable ride of the kind that is expected in a modern airplane, hence the civilian sector interest is very low, but the market requirement is massive.
     
  18. acetophenol

    acetophenol Regular Member

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    NAL Saras already has several competitors for civilian market. Also, Saras has a crew of 3,including a flight engineer which is not present for most modern aircrafts of same class. Unless Saras get rid of the flight engineer or provide a great "Mileage",IMHO,saras doesn't have much of a future in civilian market,though i would be happy to be proven wrong.
     
  19. Payeng

    Payeng Daku Mongol Singh

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    Food for thought for Saras
    [​IMG]
     
  20. arnabmit

    arnabmit Homo Communis Indus Senior Member

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    India considers partnerships to end delays in Saras aircraft project | idrw.org

    India, seeking to build its first regional aircraft, is considering roping in local and foreign partners for the project, after spending more than two decades to build a smaller plane.

    “A study under review by a government panel favours tie-ups with equipment makers rather than purchasing engines and parts from them,” Satish Chandra, head of aircraft programme at National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL), a state-owned plane designer involved in the development, said in a telephone interview from Bangalore. He didn’t give a timeframe for the project.

    Prime Minister Manmohan Singh last month approved the plan for a 70- to 100-seat aircraft as economic growth and rising disposable incomes spur air travel demand. Boeing Co. expects India will require 1,450 planes in 20 years. The project will also help the nation catch up with China, Japan and Russia in building a regional aircraft and reduce dependence on Bombardier Inc. and Embraer SA, the two companies that dominate the market for such planes.

    “You need to start somewhere and you need to build the expertise so that it has spinoffs to other sectors,” Chandra said. Projects like these may actually be the kickstart for you to integrate into the global economy.

    India’s plan to build the regional aircraft comes after little success with an earlier attempt to build an indigenous 14-seat plane called Saras. NAL spent 23 years on the project and has yet to win local certification for the plane, one of which crashed during a test flight in 2009.

    Plane crash

    The plane crashed because of reasons including NAL’s failure to consult the aircraft’s propeller maker during tests, according to the Directorate General of Civil Aviation, the nation’s civilian aviation regulator that probed the accident.

    Saras’s certification by the Center for Military Airworthiness and Certification under India’s defence ministry is expected this year, according to NAL website. Chandra declined to comment on the current status of Saras, which means crane in Sanskrit.

    The nation’s bid to build a fighter jet has also suffered setbacks. State-run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd is yet to start deliveries of the Light Combat Aircraft, which uses a General Electric Co. engine. The programme was approved in 1983.

    “The complexity of commercial aircraft development is well beyond the capabilities of NAL and HAL,” said Ernie Arvai, chief executive officer of the Arvai Group, a Windham, New Hampshire-based aviation consultancy. The Saras project was a disaster. The failure of the light combat aircraft programme and others clearly indicate a lack of capability in integrating the various element of aircraft design into feasible and safe designs.

    787, A380

    Delays for new aircraft are common in the industry. Boeing and Airbus SAS, both with years of experience building large, complicated jets, have had to push back introductions.The 787 Dreamliner, Boeing’s most advanced jet, entered commercial service at the end of 2011 after more than three years of delays. Airbus A380 superjumbo began commercial flights in 2007 after more than two years of delays and cost overruns.

    Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd’s aircraft unit, which is making Japan’s first regional passenger jet, last week pushed back the delivery of its first plane by more than a year. Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China is said to delay the maiden test flight of the country’s first large passenger plane to 2015 from an earlier plan for next year.
    Chandra said the National Manufacturing Competitiveness Council will study the regional aircraft plan and a decision on number of its seats and the type of engine will be decided later. NMCC chairman V. Krishnamurthy didn’t respond to calls to his work phone and e-mailed questions.

    Mahindra, Taneja

    The government is considering to set up a special purpose vehicle to steer the development and production of the plane, according to a 9 July statement from the Prime Minister’s Office. The capabilities of NAL and HAL and other institutions in the country will be utilized, according to the statement.

    Carriers in India will need 1,450 new planes worth $175 billion over the next 20 years, Boeing forecast in February. The International Air Transport Association has said India may be the world’s fastest-growing aviation market after Kazakhstan by 2016.

    “There’s no point reinventing the wheel on technologies that may have already been developed elsewhere at a fraction of the cost,” said Amber Dubey, a Gurgaon, India-based partner at consultancy KPMG. “The critical requirement would be to provide adequate funding support, fix clear accountability and specific time, cost and quality targets.”

    Private partners

    NAL last year held talks with a unit of Mahindra and Mahindra Ltd and Taneja Aerospace and Aviation Ltd on partnering for the regional aircraft. Mumbai-based Mahindra, India’s biggest maker of sport-utility vehicles, bought two Australian aerospace companies in 2009.

    Taneja, based in Tamil Nadu, makes light planes. It is India’s only private company to have locally developed a certified aircraft, according to its website.

    Saab AB last year said it’ll pursue a risk-sharing partnership with a yet-to-be-selected company from India, as it considered a return to the regional-plane market. NAL’s Chandra said companies and countries have shown interest in the regional aircraft project without naming anyone.

    “From the beginning, they will need private industry partners,” said Dhiraj Mathur, an executive director at PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP’s India unit. The aerospace industry is not an easy industry.
     
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  21. Sridhar

    Sridhar House keeper Moderator

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    SARAS - India's civilian aircraft project turns military

    India's civilian aircraft project turns military


    After a little over 20 years and an estimated expenditure of at least Rs 1,000 crore, the ambition to have an India-made civilian transport aircraft is nowhere near completion and has morphed into a military version.

    The plan for a multi-purpose civil aviation aircraft began in 1991 as a collaboration with Russia but financial trouble there led the Russians to drop out. The project almost came to a halt when hit by the US-imposed sanctions in 1998, after India’s nuclear tests. Termed ‘Saras’, it was then sanctioned in September 1999, with the initial aim of a maiden flight by March 2001.

    However, the response to an application by Business Standard under the national Right to Information law, on Saras’ status, shows it is now being developed as a military aircraft. According to the response from the National Aerospace Laboratory, it has sent a draft ‘certificate of design’ for the avionics system, flight control system, hydraulics and landing gear, among other systems, to the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification. At the same time, clearance has been sought from the Directorate General of Aeronautical Quality Assurance for some of the systems.

    The directorate general of civil aviation has not allowed any more flights till date after one in 2009 resulted in the deaths of two pilots and a flight test engineer. On March 6, 2009, two Indian Air Force test pilots, Wg Cdr Praveen Kotekoppa and Wg Cdr Dipesh Shah, with a test engineer, Sqdn Ldr Ilayaraja, were killed when the second prototype Saras craft crashed and caught fire in a field near Bidadi, about 30 km from here.

    According to the response from the National Aerospace Laboratory (NAL) to the RTI, it has forwarded a draft "certificate of design" documents for avionics system, flight control system, hydraulics and landing gear among other systems to CEMILAC or the Center for Military Airworthiness and Certification. At the same time, clearance has been sought from the Directorate General of Aeronautical Quality Assurance (DGAQA) for some of the systems.

    "This means it is definitely now aimed at securing certification for military use before approaching the DGCA for a certification for civilian use," said an aerospace expert, adding "the cost of developing the aircraft should have crossed Rs 1,000 crore."

    Former Director of National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL) T S Prahlad had earlier said in Bangalore while delivering a lecture that the civil aircraft development industry is being bogged down by lack of coordination between certifying agencies in the country and other international bodies.

    The IAF had signed up with NAL for the purchase of 15 Saras aircraft. The Kanpur unit of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd is expected to manufacture the planes, and the 14-seater twin-engine aircraft is to be used for coastal surveillance as well as training young cadets on flying transport aircraft. The upgraded prototype I of Saras was due to make its first flight by 2011-end leading to certification and first deliveries in 2013 and 2014 respectively.

    While the designed empty weight of the aircraft is around 4,125 kg, the first prototype weighed in around 5,118 kg. This issue is sought to be addressed by including composite wings and tail by the third prototype.

    The airframe of Saras-PT2 was built with lighter composites to reduce its overall weight by about 400 kg from its first prototype, which was overweight by about 900 kg. The aircraft is powered by two Canadian Pratt & Whitney turbo-prop engines.

    India's civilian aircraft project turns military | Business Standard
     
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