Nag missile hits bull’s eye with modified seeker

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by warrior monk, Jan 16, 2016.

  1. warrior monk

    warrior monk Regular Member

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    [​IMG]



    The indigenously-built third generation, fire-and-forget anti-tank missile, Nag, scored a “bull’s eye” and successfully hit the target 4 km away during a night trial in the Mahajan Field Firing Range, Rajasthan, last week.

    During the test, the Thermal Target System (TTS) developed by a defence laboratory at Jodhpur was used as target for the missile, which is in the final user configuration. TTS simulated a target similar to an operational tank as thermal mapping from tank to TTS was carried out for generating thermal signature.

    According to scientists of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), the trial validated the enhanced 4-km range capability of Imaging-Infrared seeker, which guides the missile to the target after its launch. The scientists said multi-purpose mission exercises were carried out for improving the system. With the modified seeker achieving requisite range capability, the scientists said the Nag missile was now ready for final, pre-induction user trials.

    Director of Defence Research and Development Laboratory, (DRDL) K. Jayaraman said the final user trials would be conducted in different conditions in summer and winter this year. Using HEAT (High explosive anti-tank) warhead, the top-attack all-weather fire-and-forget system is capable of destroying modern tanks with armoured protection by nullifying their ERA (explosive reactive armour).


    http://idrw.org/nag-missile-hits-bulls-eye-with-modified-seeker/
     
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  3. warrior monk

    warrior monk Regular Member

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  4. The enlightened

    The enlightened Regular Member

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    45 kilo missile
    4km range
    PATHETIC
     
  5. punjab47

    punjab47 महाबलामहावीर्यामहासत्यपराक्रमासर्वाग्रेक्षत्रियाजट Banned

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    @The enlightened so yes smart one, tank is there to provide fire support to infantry within 5km. Ie limits of most direct sight range,

    Makes sense for tank killer to have same range. These are direct combat arms with small logistical footprint.

    No need for targeting information unlike artillery.

    4km is a good range, especially when beside one atgm in bmp 3 all others are 5km range.

    45kg would include everything & depending on how much armor it can Pierce is not a bad weight.

    Remember that many tank 'kills' are actually disables. Most in fact, 4km at night when many Pakistan tanks won't have night fight capability is huge.

    May be wrong, have not researched atgm in a while.

    Just looking at weight & range is not a good benchmark though. It will get better over time,

    We have many times facilities from the 70s 80s that even then were not cutting edge. Other countries have much better development infrastructure.
     
  6. punjab47

    punjab47 महाबलामहावीर्यामहासत्यपराक्रमासर्वाग्रेक्षत्रियाजट Banned

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    Compared to kornet, javelin & spike basically

    Spike is better but more expensive & generation ahead. Kornet has to keep lock on so it's worse than nag

    Heavier than javelin but more range.

    It's not high end but more than adequate. It's more about having a cheap missile for saturation & logistics.

    42kg is more likely helicopter version, as that's around same as spike. & helicopter version is 10km.

    & there we go man portable will be 14 less than all 3 major competitors.

    Land versionEdit

    Land based Nag will also have its range extended by development of a mast-mounted missile launcher that will be hydraulically raised out to a height of five metres to enable the Nag missile to acquire its targets out to a distance of 7–8 km.

    Air-launched versionEdit

    Air-launched version of Nag missile with 10 km-range launched from tactical interdiction aircraft like the upgraded Jaguar IS. It will use a nose-mounted millimetric-wave active radar seeker.

    Man portableEdit

    DRDL will also start working on the,`Man Portable' Nag very soon. It would weigh less than 14 kg.[7]

    Beside Namica is the real deal, since so far only Russia has ifv with above 5km fire range atgm. Namica would be huge

    NamicaEdit

    NAMICA (Nag Missile Carrier) is a tank destroyer built for the army. It is equipped with a thermal imager for target acquisition. NAMICA is a modified BMP-2 ICV produced as "Sarath" in India



    Check this out for tank warfare :
    http://thesaker.is/heavy-metal-a-comparison-of-russian-and-western-armour/
     
  7. Nuvneet Kundu

    Nuvneet Kundu Senior Member Senior Member

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    What are the distinguishing factors between our third generation missile like Nag and say, French Milan, or Israeli Spike which is apparently 4th generation? (or between any 3rd gen vs 4 gen in general)
     
  8. tejas warrior

    tejas warrior Regular Member

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    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank_missile

    First-generation manually command guidedMCLOS missiles require input from an operator using a joystick or similar device to steer the missile to the target. The disadvantage is that the operator must keep the sight's cross hairs on the target and then steer the missile into the cross hairs—i.e. theline-of-sight. To do this, the operator must be well trained (spending hundreds of hours on a simulator) and must remain stationary and in view of the target during the flight time of the missile. Because of this, the operator is vulnerable while guiding the missile. The first system to become operational and to see combat was the French Nord SS.10 during the early 1950s.

    Second-generation semi-automatically command guided SACLOS missiles require the operator to only keep the sights on the target until impact. Automatic guidance commands are sent to the missile throughwires or radio, or the missile relies on laser marking or a TV camera view from the nose of the missile. Examples are the Russian9M133 Kornet and the American Hellfire Imissiles. Again, the operator must remain stationary during the missile's flight.

    Third-generation guidance systems rely on a laser, electro-optical imager (IIR) seeker or a W band radar seeker in the nose of the missile. Once the target is identified, the missile needs no further guidance during flight; it is "fire-and-forget", and the missile operator is free to retreat. However, fire-and-forget missiles are more subject to electronic countermeasures than MCLOS and SACLOS missiles. Examples include the German PARS 3 LR, Israeli LAHAT and Spike and the IndianNag.

    Most modern ATGMs have shaped chargehigh explosive (HEAT) warheads, designed specifically for penetrating armor. Tandem-charge missiles attempt to defeat ERAprotected armor. The small initial charge sets off the ERA while the follow-up main charge attempts to penetrate the main armor. Top-attack weapons such as the Indian Nag, American Javelin and the Swedish Bill are designed to strike vehicles from above, where their armour is usually much weaker.
     
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  9. Bornubus

    Bornubus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Wrong comparison. kORNET is not Fire and Forget and lacks Top attack feature of NAG and SPIKE,HJ 12 or jevlin.

    But it is most advance ATGM currently in service with Indian Army,which outclass almost everything Paki have (if they don't have latest TOW with Top attack mode)

    It's Armor Penetration is 1200 ~ mm and unlike Top attack mode feature it uses Brute Force to destroy the target.Several israeli Markava became it's victim.
     
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  10. punjab47

    punjab47 महाबलामहावीर्यामहासत्यपराक्रमासर्वाग्रेक्षत्रियाजट Banned

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    1st Gen or mclos operator must aim & steer missile. 2nd Gen just keep laser on target. 3rd fire & forget

    4th Gen may be resistant to electronic counter measures which is vulnerability of 3rd.

    What's weird is, I've seen both nag & spike referred to as 3rd & 4th. May just be media hype terms.

    Technically speaking just 3 gens :

    Mclos Manual command to Los
    Usually joystick

    Sclos semi auto to Los
    Radio, laser, wire or camera guide it to crosshair

    3rd Gen is laser, ir or w band radar + fire & forget. They may be calling on fly target switching 4th Gen.
    --

    Newer missiles use tandem charges. However older system like kornet can also use those.

    Nag ability to change target in flight without use of wire is unique I think. Spike has trailing fiber optic wire & javelin is shorter range.

    Atm, both nag & javelin use thermal only. Disadvantages being added weight of refrigeration unit & time needed to cool.

    Javelin manufacturer estimate is 30s to cool but can be longer in desert.

    Nag has better seeker & mmw seeker will give it all weather capability.

    Nag has cost advantage over javelin & spike. Only costs around 1lakh us per missile. Javelin is double, spike even more.

    This is without mass production yet.


    Nag has subsonic speed of 230m/s though. Only armata can probably stop it though & it will be fired in salvos so w/e.


    10km range for land & air is good. 4km range for namica is very risky. 3rd Gen mitigates this somewhat, especially if it can fire on move. Assume so as it can change targets after launch,
    --
    Chinese, Russian & German.

    Hj12, 9m123 Khrizantema (aforementioned bmp3 missile) & pars 3.

    First two are inducted, but 2nd Gen.

    Hj10 series in general seem to be hellfire copies. So laser & radar beam. Hj12 manpad with softlaunch but only laser lock is in development.

    9m123 has advantage of being supersonic at 400m/s (Mach 1.2) Vs nag 230. 6-7km range.
    It is technically 2nd Gen but has laser & radar beam riding so harder to jam. Makes bmp3 very vulnerable as article points out.


    Takes 3-6s for bmp3 to hit target, good gunner can hit tank shell in half.


    Pars has 7km range, 290m/s (Mach 1 is 340) otherwise mediocre. French German project may not be completed for awhile. Also only air or helo launched. They will probably be better off buying Nag.


    --

    Conclusion : USA Israel may be ahead of curve but, Nag even in current form outdoes both. If we can get namica in numbers by 2022 with few more km range


    we will have best tank destroyer force.
     
  11. Rowdy

    Rowdy Co ja kurwa czytam! Senior Member

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    Yes but can it kill the deathstar .... because otherwise the Indian Army will not buy it.
     
  12. punjab47

    punjab47 महाबलामहावीर्यामहासत्यपराक्रमासर्वाग्रेक्षत्रियाजट Banned

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    @Rowdy wiki says army wanted 7000 nag 200 namica.

    Funny thing this time, no 3rd Gen atgm for use on tank destroyer. Beside Spike...

    All Russian ones including tanks & ifvs fire are 2nd.

    Arjun tank will be very potent with new ammo + nag. This could find many export orders, especially if we get supersonic variant.

    Spike LR & ER have better range but, only 700/1000mm & only thermal seeking.

    Have fun in Rajputana desert or Punjab sugarcane fields thermal .

    The nag man portable we lack so we're buying from them. Hopefully tot,

    Range lacking @ 4/7/10 especially air & helo.

    Ground OK, Pinaka fills gaps
     
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  13. Twinblade

    Twinblade Senior Member Senior Member

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    Whats pathetic is you shooting off your mouth. This is in LOBL mode. in LOAL mode, as in helina, the range is 10 km.
     
  14. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Apart from this Spike does have one more advantage to it which I think others lack. While almost all the Third Gen ATGMs are fire and forget type, Spike does have something called, Fire, observe and update. It means you don't need to have the target in your site at the time of launching. During the flight time when the missile is in elevation mode, you could guide the missile to its target through the connecting FOC.
    But again NAG does have some similar capability in its HELINA avatar. Here it does relay the forward terrain of the target location to its operator and based on those pictures, operator can identify the target and guide accordingly. This version had been tested thrice in last year and had been successful twice in hitting the target. You could say that its something like a BVR for Tank warfare.
    Along with this it does have the high frequency mmW active radar scanner which no other ATGM does have. Although it is a modular system to work as an option along with IIR, but given perfect environment, due to its high frequency its a sure shot and resistant to smoke screen or flares unlike IIR seekers.
     
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  15. power_monger

    power_monger Regular Member

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    I think MMW seeker has been dropped from Nag missile and replaced with IIR seeker. MMW seeker is only meant for PGM and NGARM(Refer saurav jha interview with Satish Reddy)
     
  16. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Actually the whole concept was to build a missile which does use IIR and wire guidance for target acquisition. But DRDO was unable to come up with an effectivewire guidance system and so worked on IIR and mmW seeker. Although mmW being susceptible to interference much of importance has been given to IIR seeker. But during the summer trial in Rajasthan it has been found that the IIR seeker sometimes could not differentiate between tank heat and the heat generated by the surrounding, so along with its fine tuning mmW seeker has also been developed alongwith. Although its primary seeker would be IIR in Land launch version, but mmW being a modular system could be used in place of IIR.
     
  17. warrior monk

    warrior monk Regular Member

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    Yes , I have read about the interview but i don't think the Mmw seeker has been dropped for Nag but it will primarily be used for PGM and NGARM . Our pulsed MMw seeker have LOAL and LOBL capabilities and can be used in Rajasthan theater as there is low humidity so less attenuation and resonance especially being in W band and have one of the best ECCM capabilities . I don't find any reason why it also cannot be used. We can also use it in our CLGMs too
     
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  18. warrior monk

    warrior monk Regular Member

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  19. airtel

    airtel Senior Member Senior Member

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    army bought 8000+ spike missiles from Israel , what is the difference between that spike , helina & nag ??
     
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  20. salute

    salute Senior Member Senior Member

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    spike is fourth generation and nag is third generation agtm.
     
  21. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Senior Member

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    Any idea where we can get differences between 3rd and 4th gen...
     

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