Nag anti-tank Missile

[warrior monk]

courtesy- The Hindu

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...kers-for-tactical-missiles/article2910934.ece

 

[airtel]

army bought 8000+ spike missiles from Israel , what is the difference between that spike , helina & nag ??

 

[salute]

army bought 8000+ spike missiles from Israel , what is the difference between that spike , helina & nag ??

spike is fourth generation and nag is third generation agtm.

 

[ezsasa]

spike is fourth generation and nag is third generation agtm.

Any idea where we can get differences between 3rd and 4th gen...

 

[power_monger]

Actually the whole concept was to build a missile which does use IIR and wire guidance for target acquisition. But DRDO was unable to come up with an effectivewire guidance system and so worked on IIR and mmW seeker. Although mmW being susceptible to interference much of importance has been given to IIR seeker. But during the summer trial in Rajasthan it has been found that the IIR seeker sometimes could not differentiate between tank heat and the heat generated by the surrounding, so along with its fine tuning mmW seeker has also been developed alongwith. Although its primary seeker would be IIR in Land launch version, but mmW being a modular system could be used in place of IIR.

As far as I know Dual seekers(RF and IIR) has been used by DRDO in PDV missile meant for ballistic missile defense. But I doubt that Nag has dual seeker mode.MMR seeker might be modular in nature,but we do not know whether Nag missile has enough space to adopt to dual seekers. Generally missile length more or less gets freezed in earlier part of designs and hence addition of seekers at later point of time generally is not appreciated..

Do correct if i am wrong.

 

[power_monger]

courtesy- The Hindu

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...kers-for-tactical-missiles/article2910934.ece

This article states that nag missile was sucessfull with MMW seeker.It was true that nag had MMW seeker in its early life.But it has now been replaced with IIR seeker.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

army bought 8000+ spike missiles from Israel , what is the difference between that spike , helina & nag ??

@airtel @ezsasa @salute

Helina and nag is the same system. Helina is simply a short form of 'helicopter nag', which is the helicopter fired version of the nag missile. It's been field tested and integrated to be fired from Rudra helicopters, at the moment.

As to the difference between Spike and Javelin, there is none. Difference between 3rd gen and 4th gen? 3rd gen missiles have a clear definition : Third-generation guidance systems rely on a laser, electro-optical imager (IIR) seeker or a W band radar seeker in the nose of the missile. Once the target is identified, the missile needs no further guidance during flight; it is "fire-and-forget", and the missile operator is free to retreat. However, fire-and-forget missiles are more subject to electronic countermeasures than MCLOS and SACLOS missiles.

The main difference between 3rd gen and 4th gen missiles is that 3rd gen missiles need line of sight to the target for the user to acquire a target and cannot be launched until a target has been finalized but 4th gen missiles can acquire targets AFTER they have been launched since they have a top-attack profile. So if your target is hiding behind a mountain and you know it, you can just launch the missile, it will keep loitering mid-air, scanning the ground and keep sending you live feeds like a drone. Once a target is identified, you can finalize it and the missile will fall on its head from the air. The Nag missile can't be launched unless the user has acquired a target.

That's the main difference between Spike (4th gen) and Nag (3 gen). We bought so many Spike but it came with ToT, so we can learn how they do it and soon our Nag missile will also be 4th gen. Also note that we bought 8000 missiles but only 300 launchers will be purchased off the shelf because the remaining launchers will be manufactured in India after ToT. Probably even a few missiles will be manufactured in India.

 

[salute]

Any idea where we can get differences between 3rd and 4th gen...

me thinks thats the difference between these two generation is the warhead,

not sure,

but experts or some website can tell more.

 

[power_monger]

@airtel @ezsasa @salute

Helina and nag is the same system. Helina is simply a short form of 'helicopter nag', which is the helicopter fired version of the nag missile. It's been field tested and integrated to be fired from Rudra helicopters, at the moment.

As to the difference between Spike and Javelin, there is none. Difference between 3rd gen and 4th gen? 3rd gen missiles have a clear definition : Third-generation guidance systems rely on a laser, electro-optical imager (IIR) seeker or a W band radar seeker in the nose of the missile. Once the target is identified, the missile needs no further guidance during flight; it is "fire-and-forget", and the missile operator is free to retreat. However, fire-and-forget missiles are more subject to electronic countermeasures than MCLOS and SACLOS missiles.

The main difference between 3rd gen and 4th gen missiles is that 3rd gen missiles need line of sight to the target for the user to acquire a target and cannot be launched until a target has been finalized but 4th gen missiles can acquire targets AFTER they have been launched since they have a top-attack profile. So if your target is hiding behind a mountain and you know it, you can just launch the missile, it will keep loitering mid-air, scanning the ground and keep sending you live feeds like a drone. Once a target is identified, you can finalize it and the missile will fall on its head from the air. The Nag missile can't be launched unless the user has acquired a target.

That's the main difference between Spike (4th gen) and Nag (3 gen). We bought so many Spike but it came with ToT, so we can learn how they do it and soon our Nag missile will also be 4th gen. Also note that we bought 8000 missiles but only 300 launchers will be purchased off the shelf because the remaining launchers will be manufactured in India after ToT. Probably even a few missiles will be manufactured in India.

You are almost making spike a cruise missile.Are you sure Spike has loitering capability?

 

[warrior monk]

army bought 8000+ spike missiles from Israel , what is the difference between that spike , helina & nag ??

Nag is not man portable yet they will develop it in the future so Spike man portable atgms will be used by our infantry while spike NLOS with higher range of 25 km and ingenious Helina atgm (Heli launched Nag with longer range ) will be used for longer range aerial borne attack.
We are developing a manportable system Amogha atgm it has 2.8 km range which we tested last year in M.P its 2nd gen so it probably has beam riding .
India has the need for nearly 40000 + atgms in various forms as all 2nd gen systems will be retired so Nag , Spike ( all versions) , Amogh and Helina in various numbers will be inducted

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

You are almost making spike a cruise missile.Are you sure Spike has loitering capability?

Very sure. Check this official Spkie marketing video. Fire, observe and update.

 

[power_monger]

Very sure. Check this official Spkie marketing video. Fire, observe and update.

But how is this different from Lock on after launch?

Ps: I could not see the video due to bandwidth issues.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

But how is this different from Lock on after launch?

Ps: I could not see the video due to bandwidth issues.

It's the same thing as lock on after launch. That's what differentiates a 4th gen missile from a 3rd gen one. Loiter doesn't mean loitering for long duration like a Cruise missile does. It loiters for a few seconds while doing the top-attack dive.

 

[Indian Storm]

45 kilo missile
4km range
PATHETIC

No it can be fired from a heli and hits the target with pin point accuracy and when it hits, Armour is destroyed. Mind you even preadator drones carry heavy anti tank missiles.
Shoulder fired missiles cannot compare with this as these missiles are used against entire formations of tanks and the best thing about this is that Army loves it.
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2010/03/army-opts-for-nag-missile-as-it-enters.html

 

[Indian Storm]

Surprising that how many people are advocating a foreign missile instead of NAG. Army already wants it http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2010/03/army-opts-for-nag-missile-as-it-enters.html and it is considerd one of the best weapon system of India.
http://defencyclopedia.com/2015/03/20/top-10-most-powerful-weapons-of-the-indian-military-2/

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

No it can be fired from a heli and hits the target with pin point accuracy and when it hits Armour is destroyed. Mind you even preadator drones carry heavy anti tank missiles.
Shoulder fired missiles cannot compare with this as these missiles are used against entire formations of tanks and the best thing about this is that Army loves it.
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2010/03/army-opts-for-nag-missile-as-it-enters.html

Predator drone missiles are used against entire formations of tanks? Can a single hellfire take out more than one target? Are you referring to CBU 97 sensor-fused-weapon?

 

[Indian Storm]

Predator drone missiles are used against entire formations of tanks? Can a single hellfire take out more than one target? Are you referring to CBU 97 sensor-fused-weapon?

I was referring to hellfire missiles that weigh aroung 45 kilos and is used to destroy a tank or BMP at a time. By using them against entire formations what I mean is that a lot of NAMICAS can be used in a battlefield you can't do that with a shoulder fired missile system can you?
I am aware of CBU 97 weapon system. But it can only be used by air force and weighs almost half a ton.

 

[Chinmoy]

But how is this different from Lock on after launch?

Ps: I could not see the video due to bandwidth issues.

Actually it Fire, observe and update in Forth gen ATGM like Spike instead of Fire and Forget. This observe and update is obtained by the attached OFC in between the launcher and missile and it is done when the missile is in its elevation path. This is where CCD seeker comes handy. It is used to observe and tag the target if it was not in Line Of Sight during launch.
A similiar feature is there in Helina version of Nag, where the Helicopter pilot could guide the missile based on the feed from its CCD seeker. But instead of OFC they do use radio guidance in it.

 

[Chinmoy]

As far as I know Dual seekers(RF and IIR) has been used by DRDO in PDV missile meant for ballistic missile defense. But I doubt that Nag has dual seeker mode.MMR seeker might be modular in nature,but we do not know whether Nag missile has enough space to adopt to dual seekers. Generally missile length more or less gets freezed in earlier part of designs and hence addition of seekers at later point of time generally is not appreciated..

Do correct if i am wrong.

Actually IIR and mmW would not work in tandem. mmW being a modular system could be used in place of IIR if need arise. Recently both are being tested for NAG.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Yes , I have read about the interview but i don't think the Mmw seeker has been dropped for Nag but it will primarily be used for PGM and NGARM . Our pulsed MMw seeker have LOAL and LOBL capabilities and can be used in Rajasthan theater as there is low humidity so less attenuation and resonance especially being in W band and have one of the best ECCM capabilities . I don't find any reason why it also cannot be used. We can also use it in our CLGMs too

What is the news of CLGM? It had some successful tests and it was to be used in Arjun and T 90 in place of israeli missile? What is the status of development?