My answer to ''winston churchill''

Discussion in 'Religion & Culture' started by hit&run, Jun 17, 2009.

  1. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    “India” is as much a country as the Equator: Winston Churchill ...

    हतो वा प्राप्यसि स्वर्गं जित्वा व भोक्ष्यसे महिम तस्मात् उत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चय - 2.37

    If you die, you will attain heaven. If you win, you will rule the earth. So get up, oh Arjun, and Fight.



    To be continued:connie_running::connie_running:
     
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  3. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    Primary threat to Indian Civilization - Central Asian tribal mentality


    People from Arabia and middle-east, either pre islamic or Islamic, were never concern for India. They invaded for only 100 years in history and were thoroughly defeated by Bhaarat. They are the concern of Persians. 8 invasions before Muhammad bin Qasim were defeated by Sindh for 80 years continuously. After Qasim's conquest, they were repelled from Sindh within few decades by Sumer Rajputs after battle of Rajasthan.

    The problem of Central Asia

    India's concern has always been central Asia. Even before Islam, central asians have been invading India since the days of Rigveda. In fact, Rigveda gives first account of probable central asian invasion on Bhaaratas in form of DashaRaagna Yuddha (War of Ten Kings). In fact, they are the only ones which were able to defeat Bhaarat partially or completely. Persians and Chinese had no problems with Indian civilization. The greeks which succeeded in venturing into Indian heartland were again Bactrian greeks from Afghanistan, not the original Greeks. Shaka, Kushan, Hun, Mongol, Ghuri, Gaznavi, Mughal, Turks, Durranis, Taliban, all are central asian intruders. The Islam which ventured to Bhaarat successfully was central asian variant of original Islam which was accepted because of its user-friendly nature for tribal societies of medieval world. The tribes of central asia were the common enemies of Bhaarat, Persia and China. In fact they were the only ones which at some point of time in history were able to dominate all three of these ancient civilizations.

    The Central Asian mentality

    Gaaznavis and Ghuris and other central asian rulers of Delhi Sultanate like Khiljis, Tughlaqs, Lodhis and Suri's, and Mughals invaded and looted Bhaarat and destroyed temples and converted people in the name of religion. But, it is matter of great speculation when it comes to how much Islamic were they, when seen from today's standards set by Taliban and Saudi Arabia about purity of Islam. So many of them were openly homosexuals. Akbar dared to start his own religion and started calling himself Zill-e-Ilaahi (shadow/image of god) thereby associating himself with Allah, which is the most venereal sin in Islam.

    Interesting thing about the invaders like Mehmud of Gazni and Muhd Ghuri is that they were very much insiders when talking about contemporary Bhaarat. Until Twenty years before Mehmud of Gazni assumed power, the king of Gazni was Raaja Shiladitya. Now, it is not the case that Kings of Gaandhar did not make war with kings of Kekay and Punjab. They very much did. Just that, as long as the kings on both sides of Khyber were followers of Bhaaratiya traditions, this was strictly a political affair.

    After defeat of Huns by Yashodharma in 5th century CE, India (the core and NWFP) enjoyed immunity from central asian invasions for 500 years. Such was the resounding victory of Bhaarat over Hunnic invaders which were powerful enough to overrun the mighty Guptas. In those 500 years, entire southern Afghanistan was brought under Bhaaratiya civilizational sphere thoroughly. This is evident from the fact that Iran was conquered by Arabs completely by 651 AD. Transoxania and upper central asia was conquered and thoroughly Islamized by 709. Sindh was invaded repeatedly for 80 years before Muhammad bin Qasim succeeded. In spite of all this, it took the year of 962 for Alptigin, predecessor of Sebuktigin, to conquer Gazni from Indic king, Shiladitya. And within a twenty years of fall of Gazni, attacks started on Raja Jayapala of NWFP. Afghanistan resisted for 250 years as integral part of Bhaaratiya civilization before being conquered by Islam.

    After Islamic conquest, as the rulers of Afghanistan went away from influence of Bhaaratiya civilization, even they started behaving like their central asian hunnic predecessors. Since, Afghanistan was not conquered by Arabs, but by Islamized hordes of transoxania and Iran.

    The Road Ahead

    Since its creation, Pakistanis have been wanting to move away from their Indian identity and past. They tend to venerate central asian invaders by giving their names to their missiles just because they invaded India. They conveniently forget that these guys (Ghori, Abdali, Gaznavi et al) raped Punjab and their Hindu and Muslim Punjabi ancestors much more than the ancestors of Hindus in Ganges valley. Thus it shows that the "root" of Bhaarat's concern was always the central Asian tribal tendency and horde mentality and not Arabic method of conquest. Pakistan has taken up that mentality and tribal tendency which was always Bhaarat's pain since antiquity.

    That mentality with or without Islam, has always been troubling Indians. Just that before Islamization, the problem was comparatively benign; after Islamization of that mentality, it became a malignant problem for Bhaaratiya civilization. That mentality has now migrated from Central Asia into Indian subcontinent in form of Pakistan.

    Interestingly, in post independence era, Bhaarat has made a thorough peace with actual heartland of that mentality. Central asia, under Russia's dominance is extremely friendly towards Bhaarat. Afghanistan, was made extremely friendly before civil war and take-over by taliban. Post 9/11, things are again turning in favour of India in Afghanistan. India even has a military base in central asian heartland of Tajikistan.

    Thus, it is seen that Bhaaratiya civilization has been eliminating the anti-Bhaaratiya diatribe in Central Asia in past 60 years and have trapped the rabid anti-Indian central asian mentality in Pakistan (Pakistani Punjab, to be precise) from both the sides. Now, in the desperation to fulfil its imbibed central asian traits and instincts, Pakistan will "invade" Bhaarat out of this migrated tendency.

    If Bhaarat can withstand that invasion and press it from both the sides, this mentality will fast loose steam and Pakistani people will be forced to rediscover their Bhaaratiyatva (Indicness), just like Shakas, Kushans, Bactrians, Greeks and Huns did.

    If Bhaarat fails, that central asian mentality will again enter triumphantly into Indian heartland and fulfil its tryst with the destiny. It is the tryst of Bhaaratiya civilization with this mentality since dawn of civilization. Either of them has to succeed.
     
  4. vish

    vish Regular Member

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    And the point of this thread is?
     
  5. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    Is India” is as much a country as the Equator??

    i will appreciate if you could answer me, i will post some more information for discussion whether India is is as much a country as the equator.

    The point of thread is that India was always a nation with its own unique culture, geography/boundaries and population of different religions and kingdoms(regions) within one kingdom with a very strong understanding of 'Bhartiyata'( indianess).
    i have seen many Indians surrendering to a teasing propaganda that we were always divided and cursed; not to be united.
    This is not true. However i must tell you that this thread is all about the history of India.
    Regards.
     
  6. Soham

    Soham DFI TEAM Senior Member

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    Do we continue to sit, crib about, and criticize what someone said years ago, and continue wasting our time on it for years to come ?
     
  7. I-G

    I-G Tihar Jail Banned

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    As i see the topic from Winston Churchill quote has gone on Islam . Some people need to accept this reality that Islam and Christianity are part of India and India is having an unique culture in which everyone do have thier own respective culture and its thier contribution for the Secular chracter of United India .
     
  8. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    To: I-G:-thanks for the reply although it looks funny to me when someone tries to preach an indian The lesson of secular India.
    This thread is not religion centric, Above reply explains the Primary threat to Indian Civilization & Central Asian tribal mentality. this topic is a counter reference to the fact that the perception of risk or danger to one geography proves its legitimate existence.
    As mentioned above topic is all about history and those who don't want to waste time on history then it is their own call but i would like to tell those 'mahanubhavs' (gentlemen) that the list is ever growing.
    if a corrected interpretation of history hurts someone's contemporary liabilities and superfluous emotional being; i be extremely sorry for that.
    In my next reply i will try to post few historic evidences where freedom to practice any religion including Islam was welcomed in India. Interestingly it is a very natural (by default) Indian character to live with till date.

    Never forget the importance of history. To know nothing of what happened before you took your place on earth, is to remain a child for ever and ever.
     
  9. Soham

    Soham DFI TEAM Senior Member

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    How heroic of you...
    I don't see any threat to the Indian Civilization at the moment, nor is anybody forgetting the importance of history.
    But history is not reason enough to get hostile with countries we share good ties with.
     
  10. I-G

    I-G Tihar Jail Banned

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    Indians only can preach to Indians .

    i m well aware that followers of Islam came and settled in Kerala and Gujarat way before the invasion by Qasim . There was even another part in the same history which was the disunity among the Kings,internal disputes ,superstition etc .. and here u want to push all that on the central asian hordes and thier mentality who themselves were part of Indus civilization ,the present day Afghanistan and even beyond that . They did get up mixture with the invader mongols .

    here its not about emotions but the bridges which should be strong between the Indians .. Unity among Indians only can be the answer for any threat be it from Central Asia ,China or Mars .
     
  11. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    So appreciation to Churchill's quotation will improve relations between UK and INDIA ?
    come on man i am talking about indian history in HISTORY SECTION not about presently secure and peaceful India with no threat whatsoever as you recon.

    Regards
     
  12. F-14

    F-14 Global Defence Moderator Senior Member

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    winston chruchill was pure breed Imperalist and his viwes were shaped by his Tour of duty in the NWFP theaters with some Hassurs regiment and as for why some meglomanics from across the Border often quote him and his this quote in perticuler is because of their H&D Policy and their desperate attempt to escape their Indic Roots
     
  13. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    The ancient Indian Sanskrit epic Mahabharata was nomenclature by Ved Vyasa as Mahabharata (The great Bharat dynasty). The book tells about the great historic war between two dynasties of great India. The Great word was used for the last time in any historic book for India and was used due involvement of many or almost all kingdoms from indian sub continent in the epic war.

    View attachment 561
     
  14. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    Slightly off-topic:
    My biggest prob with UK is that it has never formally apologised to its former colonies(which were brutally looted) and acknowledged the moral hypocrisy of their imperialist leaders. Germans are still made to feel apologetic about Hitler. But Brits(Govt and commoners alike) never apologise to their former colonies. They have still not returned the valuables that they looted from their former colonies. India should ask for the return of the valuables that were looted during the imperialistic regime and apologise for the brutalities on Indians during the rule.
     
  15. S.A.T.A

    S.A.T.A Senior Member Senior Member

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    Not to sound unbecoming,what about the much touted inclusiveness of Indian culture.was the inclusiveness voluntary and welcoming or was it rather a tactical retreat,an act of self preservation fostered by a changed political landscape.

    What is Indian about the Semitic faiths ?

    This might even be interesting for an unbiased observation.
     
  16. S.A.T.A

    S.A.T.A Senior Member Senior Member

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    Wasn't Churchill proved correct ?
     
  17. luckyy

    luckyy Regular Member

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    by giving this statement he meant that india never moves it remain standstill .....like the Equator

    he proved wrong now....

    we are moving 7.5% a year..
     
  18. S.A.T.A

    S.A.T.A Senior Member Senior Member

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    Churchill's quote is rather a misquote..This is what he said

     
  19. luckyy

    luckyy Regular Member

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    have seen the line of Equator on the globe , when earth moves , everything moves , but the line of Equator looks to apprear standstill...
     
  20. S.A.T.A

    S.A.T.A Senior Member Senior Member

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    You are reading the quote out of context,leaving the cartography aside,for Churchill Indian does not represent a political entity anymore than Europe was.

    For him India and Europe were mere geographical expressions assigned to specific regions of the world for the convenience sake.
     
  21. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    Yes, Churchill was proved right. And Indians didnt stop him and his successors from doing it.
     

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