Must Watch: By The Numbers - The Untold Story of Muslim Opinions & Demographics

Mad Indian

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@Agnostic_Indian Listen taqqiya, raping a 6 yr old is pedophile whether it was in 7th century or 21 st century and those filth who think thats ok or think that someone like that is a prophet are barbaric pieces of shit. there is no other ways to it. If you are butthurt by the truth, go blow yourself up like your more honest jihadi brethren instead of playing taqqiyya here.


I will remember this thread whenever you open your * about FOE or rationalism or secularism. Naive morons who still believe in secularism need to be shown what "moderate muslims" look like citing you
 

Agnostic_Indian

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@Agnostic_Indian Listen taqqiya, raping a 6 yr old is pedophile whether it was in 7th century or 21 st century and those filth who think thats ok or think that someone like that is a prophet are barbaric pieces of shit. there is no other ways to it. If you are butthurt by the truth, go blow yourself up like your more honest jihadi brethren instead of playing taqqiyya here.


I will remember this thread whenever you open your * about FOE or rationalism or secularism. Naive morons who still believe in secularism need to be shown what "moderate muslims" look like citing you
Yeh keep a book mark dude....i will waite for the next encounter
 

Agnostic_Indian

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Islam and Chritianity leave little room for interpretation in their books. Islam has taken it to completely another level.

1) Dar-ul-Islam and Dar-ul-harb- nothing to interpret there
2) Play taqiya when among non-muslims
3) Jihad against non-belivers

Now what is there to interpret when everything is spelled out in crystal clear way. Some people may call it as internal Jihad, but with the concept of Dar-ul-Islam and Dar-ul-Harb to guide, there is little scope of interpretation. They follow from one another logically.

Now Gita is violent as well and tell you to fight war. But there are no commandments against whom. And so individuals are free to interpret Gita but with Koran and Hadith, at least Jihad against kafirs is plain simple fact. No interpretation is needed there.
I am sure you will find sweet interpretations for almost anything bad in religious books...they will have it for even the worst parts but those are so fragile that usually they ignore that part completely in teachings and they only bother to defend it only on debates to defend their book.
 

A chauhan

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...
Now Gita is violent as well and tell you to fight war. But there are no commandments against whom. And so individuals are free to interpret Gita but with Koran and Hadith, at least Jihad against kafirs is plain simple fact. No interpretation is needed there.
Just to elaborate, creator Krishna says at last to Arjun in Bhagwad Gita :-

...yathecchasi tatha kuru (यथेच्छसि तथा कुरु )

means :- ...do what you wish to do. (जो ठीक लगे वो करो)
http://asitis.com/18/63.html
Just guidelines no directions.

BTW, Muslims can not tolerate criticism of Islam even after seeing and reading the long history of atrocities against non-Muslims, so there are 0% chances of Islamic reforms. What Barak Obama said was right "it's on Muslims to criticize and stop feeding the terrorists..." but Obama himself even after being a Muslim was criticized and abused by the international media including Indian pseudo-secular media on saying so, hence Islam will never reform.



 

Agnostic_Indian

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Here's Charvaka's criticism of Vedic Dharma in 600 BCE :-

"The three authors of the Vedas were buffoons, knaves, and demons. All the well-known formulae of the pandits, jarphari, turphari, etc. and all the obscene rites for the queen commanded in Aswamedha, these were invented by buffoons, and so all the various kinds of presents to the priests, while the eating of flesh was similarly commanded by night-prowling demons."

"There is no heaven, no final liberation, nor any soul in another
world, Nor do the actions of the four castes, orders, etc., produce any real
effect. The Agnihotra, the three Vedas, the ascetic s three staves, and smear
ing one s self with ashes, were made by Nature as the livelihood of those destitute of knowledge and manliness."

"While life remains let a man live happily, let him feed on ghee even though he runs in debt ;
When once the body becomes ashes, how can it ever return again ?
If he who departs from the body goes to another world,
How is it that he comes not back again, restless for love of his kindred ?
Hence it is only as a means of livelihood that Brahmans have established here
All these ceremonies for the dead, there is no other fruit any where."


And yet Madhavacharya included his vicious and pointed criticisms it in Sarvadarshan Samgraha.

https://archive.org/stream/thesarvadarsanas00madhuoft#page/n37/mode/2up

There is a long list of people who have criticized Hinduism, bashed Brahmins like anything and yet were able to spread their doctrines in India, infact many Brahmins themselves took up those doctrines. Indic tradition allows for criticism and debate. This is central to the Indic tradition. Plenty of Buddhist, Jain, Sikh polemics mocking Hindus for their stupidity. & vice versa from Hindu side to these traditions, see Dayananda Saraswati's Satyarth Prakash.

Are there any parallels like this in Islam ? Amir Khan made a mockery of Hinduism and Lord Shiva , yet he made 500 crores in that movie When he talked about intolerance, Hindus responded by boycotting snapdeal. Do Muslims take to the criticism of their religion lightly ? Remember the rioting and burning across the world over cartoons and the innocence movie ? In BD right now, critics of Islam are being hacked in broad day light. Happened in Charlie Hebdo. Something called as "blasphemy law" in Pakistan which is used to harass and convert minorities by putting false accusations on them. Look up Asiya bibi case or Salman Taseer who was killed for opposition to blasphemy law.

There is a strong theological basis in Islam for stopping all criticism. Look up the story of Asma Bint Marwan. There in lies your problem.
So what if carvaka used some some bad words at 600 BCE ? human civilization has prograssed and we should be able to criticise others in good language. Those terms carvaks used adds no value to his criticism, the substance of his his criticism is fine even with out those words.

You are contradicting your own assertion on later paragraphs where you talk about Amir khans criticism. I have seen long thread full of foulmouthing srk for his comments which is absolute in good taste, even i feel Amir's talk of leaving india was a over reaction. You guys are parising a supposedly tolerant hinduism in the ancient period ( which is debatable ) and porteay it as a good thing and at the same time you guys can't even tolerate a movies or a subtle criticism about your repigion or the criticism against some extremist hindu leaders. Yeh, you never forget to raise every kind of excuses to justufy your intolerance..but truth is you guys will be intolerant whether or not all those abd things happened or not, if it was not this then some other excuse...world is never perfect so it's never that hard to find a excuse.

You criticise islam about its intolerance..i agree with you, it's intolerant...but i belive intolerance is bad whether it's from muslims or hindus, where as you see only islamic intolerance to be bad, you are ok with hindu intolerance, you will find any excuse but won't show tolerance.
 

asingh10

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You guys are parising a supposedly tolerant hinduism in the ancient period ( which is debatable ) and porteay it as a good thing and at the same time you guys can't even tolerate a movies or a subtle criticism about your repigion or the criticism against some extremist hindu leaders.
What I actually wrote :-

Are there any parallels like this in Islam ? Amir Khan made a mockery of Hinduism and Lord Shiva , yet he made 500 crores in that movie When he talked about intolerance, Hindus responded by boycotting snapdeal. Do Muslims take to the criticism of their religion lightly ? Remember the rioting and burning across the world over cartoons and the innocence movie ?
Hindus peacefully boycotting snapdeal and Amir Khan in response to Amir Khan insulting their religion in a movie is an expression of Hindu intolerance and is equal somehow to Muslims killing Van gough for a movie, threatening life of Rushide, Taslima, hacking BD rationalists in cold blood, muslims rioting all over the world over cartoons and books, charlie hebdo etc.


Let everyone see how this guy obfuscates, spins, lies. Then you wonder why people call you a Pakistani and Islamist here.
 

asingh10

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So what if carvaka used some some bad words at 600 BCE ? human civilization has prograssed and we should be able to criticise others in good language. Those terms carvaks used adds no value to his criticism, the substance of his his criticism is fine even with out those words..
You idiot, can you not even comprehend basic stuff ? Or you just like to argue for the sake of it ? If so, don't waste my time.

My point was that there is a historical precedence to Hindus being relatively more tolerant and accepting of others.

And there's a historical precedence of Muslims killing others for mocking their prophet and being intolerant , non accepting of other religions.

Read the story of Asma Bint marwan and Kaab ibn al ashraf. It's in the Islamic scriptures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/'Asma'_bint_Marwan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ka'b_ibn_al-Ashraf
 

asingh10

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Following the victory of the Muslims over the Quraysh in the Battle of Badr, in March 624, Ka'b was angry at the execution of a number of Meccan notables who had been captured after that battle.[4] Ibn Hisham's biography of Muhammad reports Ka'b as saying "By Allah, if Muhammad has indeed struck down those people, then it were better to be buried in the earth than to walk upon it!"[5]

Ka'b went to Mecca, where he wrote poems praising the Quraysh and trying to incite them to again take up arms again against Muhammad.[2] Some sources suggest that during a visit to Mecca, Ka'b concluded a treaty with Abu Sufyan, stipulating cooperation between the Quraysh and Jews against Muhammad.[6]

Upon returning to Medina, Ka'b started a fresh campaign that took the form of obscene songs and erotic poems with a view to defaming the Muslim women.
[5]

Muhammad made it clear to his companions that he wished Ka'b killed, saying, "Who is willing to kill Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?"[7] Muhammad bin Maslamavolunteered and was aided by several others, including Abu Na'ila (Silkan bin Salama, Ka‘b’s foster brother). Ibn Maslamah was troubled that this assassination would involve lying to Ka'b, but Muhammad gave him a dispensation to do so.[5]

They took Ka'b out for a walk late at night and killed him.[4]


Here's the hadith :-


The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has really hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "O Allah's Apostle! Do you like me to kill him?" He replied in the affirmative. So, Muhammad bin Maslama went to him (i.e. Ka'b) and said, "This person (i.e. the Prophet) has put us to task and asked us for charity." Ka'b replied, "By Allah, you will get tired of him." Muhammad said to him, "We have followed him, so we dislike to leave him till we see the end of his affair." Muhammad bin Maslama went on talking to him in this way till he got the chance to kill him.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/bukhari/bh4/bh4_273.htm
 

asingh10

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Story of Asma Bint Marwan

The story of bint Marwan and her death appears in the works of Ibn Ishaq and Ibn Sa'd, who included narrations regardless of their authenticity. According to the reports, her family viewed Muhammad and his followers as unwelcome interlopers in Medina. After the Muslim victory over the Quraysh in Mecca in 624 in the Battle of Badr a number of Muhammad's opponents were killed. She composed poems that publicly defamed the local tribesmen who converted to Islam and allied with Muhammad, and called for his death.[1] In her poems, she also ridiculed Medinians for obeying a chief not of their kin.[2] Ibn Ishaq mentions that bint Marwan also displayed disaffection after the Medinian Abu Afak was killed for inciting rebellion against Muhammad. The poem said: "do you expect good from (Muhammad) after the killing of your chiefs" and asked: "Is there no man of pride who would attack him by surprise/ And cut off the hopes of those who expect aught from him?" Upon hearing the poem, Muhammad then called for her death in turn, saying "Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?" Umayr bin Adiy al-Khatmi, a blind man belonging to the same tribe as Asma’s husband (i.e., Banu Khatma) responded that he would. He crept into her room in the dark of night where she was sleeping with her five children, her infant child close to her bosom. Umayr removed the child from Asma's breast and killed her
 

asingh10

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The first thing prophet does after entering Mecca is destroy 360 idols in Kabba.



"During the conquest of Mecca, Muhammad entered Kaba and removed 360 idols. The Meccans looked on aghast while Muhammad, with a stroke of stick held in hand, smashed the idols which lay in the lower cavities of the walls. To break those idols which were placed higher up, out of reach of either hand or stick, in particular the idol most treasured by the Meccans, that of Hubal, like a giant statue; Muhammad solicited the help of Ali. Ibn Sa'd (3rd vol., p. 13) and other compilers of Hadiths, like Tirmizi (2nd vol., p. 299) and Ibn Majah (p. 12) write that Muhammad said, "Ascend on my shoulders and then shatter with this stick all the idols which are placed up above." Ali placed his feet on the shoulders of Muhammad and completed the great purge. He cast down all the idols, relics of the age of ignorance, also climbed to the top of the Kaba and pulled Hubal from its place and threw it down. "


He knocked them down with his bow while reciting the verse of the Quran :-

"And say, "Truth has come, and falsehood has departed. Indeed is falsehood, [by nature], ever bound to depart." [Al-Qur'an 17:81]

And I'm supposed to believe that this religion has the same potential of being intolerant as another religion which readily accepts its criticism. Where did the iconoclasm of Islamic invaders come from ? Ask yourself.
 

asingh10

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You wasting your time I asked him two simple questions he skipped and cried at mods :pound:

1.If your fu** God is one Who/Where is his mom&dad gods?

2.Why your god hate pigs? (according to you he is the creator,why he created pigs).
I'm pretty much done responding to him.

As for as his argument on Mohammed and Aisha , consider this :-

1. Mohammed consummated the marriage with Aisha when she was 9. This is in the hadith.

2. Muslims claim their belief is for all places and all times,claim its immutable and absolute, perfect in everyway:-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_verse_of_Ikmal_al-Din
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/495/viewall/inclusiveness-of-islam/

3. If #2 is correct, then how do they reconcile #1 with modern laws/universally accecpted norms on marriageable age.
 

Agnostic_Indian

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You idiot, can you not even comprehend basic stuff ? Or you just like to argue for the sake of it ? If so, don't waste my time.

My point was that there is a historical precedence to Hindus being relatively more tolerant and accepting of others.

And there's a historical precedence of Muslims killing others for mocking their prophet and being intolerant , non accepting of other religions.

Read the story of Asma Bint marwan and Kaab ibn al ashraf. It's in the Islamic scriptures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/'Asma'_bint_Marwan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ka'b_ibn_al-Ashraf
Only idiot here is you. I know you talked about historical hindu tolerance and i just pointed out that how intolerant is you guys in this forum are today.
 

Agnostic_Indian

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What I actually wrote :-



Hindus peacefully boycotting snapdeal and Amir Khan in response to Amir Khan insulting their religion in a movie is an expression of Hindu intolerance and is equal somehow to Muslims killing Van gough for a movie, threatening life of Rushide, Taslima, hacking BD rationalists in cold blood, muslims rioting all over the world over cartoons and books, charlie hebdo etc.


Let everyone see how this guy obfuscates, spins, lies. Then you wonder why people call you a Pakistani and Islamist here.
Amir and srk and others has been bombarded with abuses and insults all over the SM. To an extend Amir deserved some criticism, i will concede that point but srk's comment was absolutely right. You only heard of Salman Rushide? Never heard of kalburgi ? Present generation of carvaka/ atheist who sometimes used carvaka style terms also. He also was exicuted just like carvaka rishi(if the that narrative is actually true ). Don't pretend that intolerance exists among muslims only, there is intolerance in hindus as well, may be in lesser magnitude but it is there.
 

cannonfodder

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One last attempt....

Both SRK and Amir are trolled for their double standards on social media. While they are voicing concerns about Dadri incidents, award wapsi (both included) brigade was silent during similar incidences under UPA. Whatever I have heard; statistically there is no evidence of increased communal violence under modi. No voices are heard on incidences like malda riots or when Islamist storm for terrorist yakub funeral as though he is martyr. Both need to introspect within before calling others intolerant; they are color blind and we are exposing this double standard. Tolerance does not mean we won't debate. We are doing in acceptable manner disagreeing with their assertions on social media or should we act like dhimmies...?

Kalburgi death is not swept under with the sweet talk of Hindu blasphemy, it is investigated. No one here is concluding hindusim = perfect religion that is work in progress and will remain forever(change = const). Almost 90% + are aware about wrongs of caste system; won't deny it still exists. This is claim of perfection is made by followers of only religion. Now see how many kalburgi's Islam kills each year. how many % of your kind r even ready to acknowledge the real reason behind the massacre happening around globe and your own problems? You are making same attempts that othrs make to deflect all criticism of Islam.

Amir and srk and others has been bombarded with abuses and insults all over the SM. To an extend Amir deserved some criticism, i will concede that point but srk's comment was absolutely right. You only heard of Salman Rushide? Never heard of kalburgi ? Present generation of carvaka/ atheist who sometimes used carvaka style terms also. He also was exicuted just like carvaka rishi(if the that narrative is actually true ). Don't pretend that intolerance exists among muslims only, there is intolerance in hindus as well, may be in lesser magnitude but it is there.
 

A chauhan

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Amir and srk and others has been bombarded with abuses and insults all over the SM. To an extend Amir deserved some criticism, i will concede that point but srk's comment was absolutely right. You only heard of Salman Rushide? Never heard of kalburgi ? Present generation of carvaka/ atheist who sometimes used carvaka style terms also. He also was exicuted just like carvaka rishi(if the that narrative is actually true ). Don't pretend that intolerance exists among muslims only, there is intolerance in hindus as well, may be in lesser magnitude but it is there.
SRK's comment was a broad generalization, that's why he was wrong, some people oppose him not all, he didn't clarify who is "extremely intolerant" and thus included all the Hindus in that charge.

So far as rising intolerance among Hindus is concerned पानी सर के ऊपर निकल रहा है, too much of tolerance is impotency.
 

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