Must Read: India Hungry to Develop Hi-Tech Aerospace Expertise

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by JayATL, Feb 16, 2012.

  1. JayATL

    JayATL Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,775
    Likes Received:
    189
    Location:
    USA
    India’s big-ticket military acquisitions are expected to aggressively push schedules for the transfer of production to the country’s ambitious aerospace and defense industry. But the technology that India expects to be transferred through co-development work generated by offset agreements is raising concerns among vendors about possible violations of intellectual property rights (IPR).

    A revised policy on offsets is expected to be released soon and the industry hopes that this will at last deal with the thorny issue of transfer of technology (TOT), which is no longer mandatory as part bids, as it was in the past. Starting with projects awarded from 2011, TOT can now be offered as offsets.Industry observers say India’s lack of clarity on dual technology and IPR may result in OEMs finding ways to circumvent the use of advanced technology on the grounds that India does not have safeguards to protect manufacturers that license technology to local partners. The Indian industry has called for a National Technology Audit Agency and an integrated legal framework to be put in place to ensure TOT protects the OEM.

    Issues are already surfacing. India’s Aeronautical Development Agency selected 99 GE F414 engines to power the Mk II version of Hindustan Aeronautics’s Light Combat Aircraft for the Indian Air Force. GE Aviation will supply the initial batch of F414-GE-INS6 engines and the rest will be manufactured in India under transfer of technology arrangement.

    The contract requires 10 engines to be provided in flyaway condition. The agreement also contains a30-percent offset clause and will tap some of the 24 Indian companies that GE has certified. But with India indicating that it might use the TOT for the engine for its indigenous aircraft under development, OEMs are seeing red. “We can almost be sure there will be no transfer of crystal blades of the F414, something India desperately needs,” said an analyst under condition of anonymity.

    Last year, there were more than 50 contracts in India that required offsets worth $10 billion. This will increase proportionately with programs such as the $12-billion-plus contract for 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft contract, the $4 billion Boeing P-8I maritime surveillance aircraft program, Boeing’s Harpoon anti-ship missile and the$4.1 billion deal for 10 Boeing C-17 Globemaster aircraft for the Indian Air Force.Further, contracts for basic jet trainers, light helicopters and towed artillery are close to being signed.

    Public-private sector partnerships are expected to play a key role in the future. Clarity on the long-delayed joint venture policy to increase foreign participation from 26 to 49 percent is awaited. The potential of Defense Private Sector Units (DPSUs) as large-scale offset discharge vehicles remains uncertain, especially given the capacity and current orderbook mismatch. A choked orderbook for DPSUs looking to honor delivery timelines and future order absorption capacity is a concern.

    “India’s largest defense manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics currently has an orderbook of $18 billion… Its ability to absorb additional orders remains uncertain, given the historical structural issues, even after adjusting for complexity for the order pipeline, currently faced by HAL,” concluded a report by consultancy Aviotech. The comparable order backlogs for other major aerospace firms is around three years for Embraer and around one year for Lockheed Martin.

    A letter addressed last year to the India minister of defense by various international associations, including U.S. Aerospace Industries Association and GIFAS of France, recommended increased FDI, wider permission for dual-use technologies and expand the scope of offsets–many of which the MOD has adopted. The letter asks for multipliers in offsets contracts especially in TOT and production-license-based projects and FDI. The letter also calls for “one clear offset authority” outside of the Defense Acquisition Council with decision-making power to “approve contracts in a predictable, efficient and transparent manner.”

    “We improve it [the policy] every year, with suggestions from industry and vendors…and refine [it] as we go along,” said Pallam Raju, state minister for defense.

    Recently, at a public forum, Raju acknowledged that DPSUs lack program management skills. “ [Improving the skills] is a painful process. It will take some time to gather the requisite skills as programs mature gradually,” he said, while adding that the government is committed to encouraging private participation in defense production, with the ministry focused on strengthening and widening the defense industrial base.

    “The Indian aerospace industry is exposed to some risk from its limited expertise in materials science,” said Rahul Gangal, Aviotech’s director for defense advisory and investments. For example, capability has not evolved in the composites precursor and fiber segments of aircraft design and production. Keeping this in focus, the new offsets policy is expected to include certain areas where TOT is required in India, including nanotechnology, single crystal blades, titanium honeycomb and investment casting for barrel manufacture.

    India Hungry to Develop Hi-Tech Aerospace Expertise | idrw.org
     
  2.  
  3. JayATL

    JayATL Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,775
    Likes Received:
    189
    Location:
    USA
    Why is it a must read? Firstly because I like educating the majority of the rabble rousers here who are all hat no cattle. but more importantly- It is because there is notable change in TOT - or what the expectations are on TOT. Previously, it meant what you buy that buy has to come with TOT. Now that has changed to - it could be on offsets but not on the actual product purchased.

    this is a big change. Example : India could buy say F35 but could and would need TOT only on the offsets. so say hypothetically , India did not have great wind tunnel facility, which is important for having home grown aviation. then the US could provided TOT on that but none on the aircraft.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2012
  4. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    3,757
    Likes Received:
    2,573
    Limited funding in research forced India to prioritize R&D. Top priority was Nuclear, Space and Ballistic Missiles. In each of these areas we have arrived or have almost arrived. Focus will shift to other areas like aviation and electronics now. It wont be a century before that gap is closed. More like a decade and a half to two.

    What your awesomeness needs to realize is that closing a 25 year tech gap does not take 25 years once you are funded adequately. Now we are.

    It would be awesome if there was minimal to no transfer of technology - How does it go again? Ah, yes. Necessity is the mother of invention.
     
  5. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,640
    Likes Received:
    17,124
    Location:
    EST, USA
    Welcome back dear Sir. I have something for you:

    [​IMG]

    "JayATL on a High Horse."

    Why must your demean others, that too in almost everything you post? Do you not see why you invite so much firefight in DFI?
     
  6. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    3,757
    Likes Received:
    2,573
    He is not on a high horse. He is just High ... all the time.
     
  7. JayATL

    JayATL Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,775
    Likes Received:
    189
    Location:
    USA
    You are an absolute dolt , LOL. The level of ignorant thinking is bountiful within you. If money, funds were the SOLE issue, as you claim, then China would have built their own engines by now or any one of the many developed countries would have a replica of F22 or at a minimum US AESA radar tech would not take another country over a decade to emulate. You have trifecta consortium of rich countries in europe that is yet to make an AESA radarc for their aircraft.everyone knows AESA is extremely important tech . so it aint " lack of funds" as the issue,forrest.

    Here is how idiotic you are on these forums. You challenge resident experts ( like the doctor on medical institutions in the other post), or Indian govt on this one , by claiming " funds" is the issue. Or you simply spew bull crap like Ford got bail out finanacing i.e.just constantly lie , obfuscate facts . Why do you bother to come into my threads? why do you insist on being stuck on stupid?
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2012
  8. JayATL

    JayATL Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,775
    Likes Received:
    189
    Location:
    USA
    The only ones I demean are the lower class thinkers, but the ones who are not, know whom I think about . Besides, It's fun making fun of the mentally handicapped here. It also helps to draw them into my threads. :D The mentally retarded do not disappoint, they come in and announce themselves every time

    On the other hand why would I or anyone want to be a ' respected member ' here? Your "respected members" go about calling people niggers and making racist statements with no recuperations. Nah- I'll stick to my style!
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2012
  9. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2010
    Messages:
    8,008
    Likes Received:
    5,718
    Location:
    irrelevant
    I'm surprised (or not) that your curd rice fed brain has so much critical thinking !
     
    JayATL likes this.
  10. JayATL

    JayATL Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,775
    Likes Received:
    189
    Location:
    USA
    haha - good one.
    I love rice crispy treats! it avoids the need to eat like you- slurping up the curry juice as it runs down from you hand , pass your wrist.

    You can keep the TOT on that to yourself :D
     
  11. SADAKHUSH

    SADAKHUSH Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,802
    Likes Received:
    758
    Location:
    Winterland
    I have been reading your posts for a while and thanks for posting the latest one to educate us about the changes taking place in Indian Aerospace Industry. You did start on a good note but slipped back into your usual habit of name calling and demeaning fellow forum members. I am not going to use the same language except your help is required to help us all understand the underlying reasons for on going use of the words which we should all refrain from when having a discussion on any topic.

    May I request you to put an end to use of unwelcome language. If you have any personal grudge against any forum member please use the PM. So let us get on with topic on hand and share the knowledge in a more civilized language.

    Thank you for your time in reading my post.
     
  12. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,640
    Likes Received:
    17,124
    Location:
    EST, USA
    Sadakhush, you live in Canada and it's still cool out there. Jay lives down south in Georgia. It's already pretty warm, and we are well into spring.

    Anyways, I am expecting some other members to jump into this thread and then watch the fireworks. If we can ignore the ad hominems, such quarrels can be rather entertaining.
     
  13. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2010
    Messages:
    8,008
    Likes Received:
    5,718
    Location:
    irrelevant
    F-35 is not for sale to India. Its not me saying but Pentagon.

    Well if curd rice can give you so much critical thinking just imagine how much critical thinking a diet of meat (right from childhood) & bheja could have given me.
     
  14. Spindrift

    Spindrift Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    307
    Likes Received:
    175
    Forget about developing hi tech aerospace expertise... we can't even make a decent pistol or a decent assault rifle for our front line troops
     
  15. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    3,757
    Likes Received:
    2,573
    Your stupidity is beyond belief. I said, we had to prioritize research. The areas that we focused on we are almost on par.

    In fact in nuclear fuel cycle handling we are ahead of most countries. Reactor construction we may be slightly behind but we will surpass others before the turn of the deacde by installing multiple fast breeders and AHWR.
    In space, it took our first moon mission to discover something that your Yankee friends could not despite landing someone there. Of course, still a long way to go but we should be on par within 2 deacades.
    In ballistic missiles, we are already on par, we just need the political will to develop the ranges.

    Areas like aviation and electronics are now being focussed on. We will catch up with or without TOT.

    I thought I could heal you over time. But persistence and ignorance is one lethal combination, and you are the king of persistent ignoramuses.
     
  16. JayATL

    JayATL Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,775
    Likes Received:
    189
    Location:
    USA
    Oye moron- what does your post have to do with what I said? I said TOT is now taken on offsets too, not just on the product purchased. You come with how 'India was not at par because lack of funding'- WTF has that to do with what I posted ? :laugh:

    and when I point out your stuck on stupid mentality, you come back again with more garbage that has nothing to do with what I posted.

    [ MOD EDIT ]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2012
  17. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    3,757
    Likes Received:
    2,573
    Again If you had chosen to read what I posted it sadi we are better off without TOT. But you choose to spout venom instead. The mice inside your cranial cavity are starving because they have run out of brain to feed on.
     
  18. Godless-Kafir

    Godless-Kafir DFI Buddha Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    5,829
    Likes Received:
    1,799
    Loser your the one to educate us? Boot licker such as yourself who is ashamed of how he looks has no roll telling us anything.

    We all have been super critical of DRDO,HAL and what ever. We are not the indians in your imagination who think india is the perfect land. Your just a fu(ken confused loser who could do nothing and takeing out his frustration here.

    I dare you to post your pic here like i did. Lets all see what a Aryan specimen you are.
     
    Bangalorean likes this.
  19. SADAKHUSH

    SADAKHUSH Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,802
    Likes Received:
    758
    Location:
    Winterland
    It sure is, but we were lucky this year not to have snow fall. It was India and Europe's turn this year as they need lot of fresh water.
    I am waiting for response to my post by "super critical thinker". It is only entertaining to certain extent than becomes pain in the neck.
    If India is not upto one's expectation than go there and bring about changes rather than abuse people on forum.
     
  20. SADAKHUSH

    SADAKHUSH Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,802
    Likes Received:
    758
    Location:
    Winterland
    By posting the topic we were expecting that this time around you will stay on topic rather than perform the same circus by exposing your behaviour and much more. Majority of us do know the shortcomings in Indian society just as we have in the much developed nations. If you can not stand the lack of quality in day to day life of over a billion souls than it is time for you to do something by returning to India and educate them rather than waste your precious intellect by abusing others on this forum. I personally on my own cannot change one single person but make them aware of better way of doing the things that is what is required so please go back and put your thoughts into action.

    Peace be upon you.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2012

Share This Page