Moscow-Islamabad partnership not against Delhi

[LETHALFORCE]

We (India), started the back stabbing ...... Russia is doing what is necessary to defend itself against an unreliable ally.

Give one example of this backstabbing? India has always been a loyal friend.

 

[Prometheus]

Give one example of this backstabbing? India has always been a loyal friend.

well we started buying American weapons ( and WE expect Russia to stop sale of Russian weapons to Pakistan, on what grounds?). In spite of the fact that US gave FREE weapons to Pakistan ( I am not referring to night vision goggles, I am talking of F-16's etc. ). Russia's main exports are gas & weapons, the US is trying to hit both these, to cripple the Russian economy. Also we did little to dissuade Pakistan from raging a proxy war with the former USSR. Russia strained its relation with China, when China invaded India.

 

[shekhar]

Well friendship can be tested only in troubled times, you cant test loyalty or friendship in fair weather. When India was poor and weak, Russia stood by us!. Today Russia is weak and is being isolated, while India is growing ever so more powerful, its time for India to be tested. When times are good and our economy is booming, see how everyone wants to be India's friends.... but in troubled times, it was only Russia stood by us.

V stood by russia...in crisis of ukraine..even putin applauded china & india on stance tkn by two nations..

 

[Prometheus]

V stood by russia...in crisis of ukraine..even putin applauded china & india on stance tkn by two nations..

Under normal circumstances Russia would have entertained India's demand of not selling weapons to Pakistan or China, but we must understand that these are troubled times for our ALLY and the Russian economy is close to collapse, they will have to make whatever profits they can in order to facilitate their economy especially when their biggest customer (India) is looking for other sources, and even buying weapons from their biggest enemy.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

well we started buying American weapons ( and WE expect Russia to stop sale of Russian weapons to Pakistan, on what grounds?). In spite of the fact that US gave FREE weapons to Pakistan ( I am not referring to night vision goggles, I am talking of F-16's etc. ). Russia's main exports are gas & weapons, the US is trying to hit both these, to cripple the Russian economy. Also we did little to dissuade Pakistan from raging a proxy war with the former USSR. Russia strained its relation with China, when China invaded India.

Can india dissuade Pakistan from raging a proxy war against india?

 

[brational]

Many Military hardware are sitting duck due to Russia's inability to provide service and spare parts. Russia's project execution skills also collapsed with the collapse of USSR. Delays and price escalations have given bitter experience to India in recent past. FGFA is suffering as Russia is not coming clean with the venture. IMO, India is not buying anything from the US just to irritate Russia. India is evaluating everything before signing any deal with US or any other country. India even rejected US fighter planes in MMRCA, Spikes are chosen over Javelins. India has chosen the best solution for her needs.

Russia has lost her crown due to her sheer negligence on acknowledging India's concerns regarding procurements, supply, services and ongoing military projects. The differences can be bridged only when Russia gives a clarity on her India policy and cooperation. Let's hope Putin and Modi will sort out the differences and give a new life to India-Russia relations.

 

[Neil]

well we started buying American weapons ( and WE expect Russia to stop sale of Russian weapons to Pakistan, on what grounds?). In spite of the fact that US gave FREE weapons to Pakistan ( I am not referring to night vision goggles, I am talking of F-16's etc. ). Russia's main exports are gas & weapons, the US is trying to hit both these, to cripple the Russian economy. Also we did little to dissuade Pakistan from raging a proxy war with the former USSR. Russia strained its relation with China, when China invaded India.

wrong.. India hasnt really bought anything apart from apaches and CH47s that in any way undercut Russian dominance in India's defense sector.. so the whole- India buying weapons from others- is lame.

And yes we do expect Russia to take our concern seriously and ponder over what they are getting into. Look this is buyers market, we pump in kind of money into Russian defence sector hardly anyone can match apart from china[but then they reverse engineer it and Russians loose out]. Lets stand up for our interest and stop so called self pity. If we pump in money and if we buy weapons Russians need to take our interest very seriously.

what?!! USSR had their own problems with China and had little to do during chinese invasion..hell it was US that gave us help.arrived after the war...but came nevertheless.

 

[Prometheus]

Many Military hardware are sitting duck due to Russia's inability to provide service and spare parts. Russia's project execution skills also collapsed with the collapse of USSR. Delays and price escalations have given bitter experience to India in recent past. FGFA is suffering as Russia is not coming clean with the venture. IMO, India is not buying anything from the US just to irritate Russia. India is evaluating everything before signing any deal with US or any other country. India even rejected US fighter planes in MMRCA, Spikes are chosen over Javelins. India has chosen the best solution for her needs.

Russia has lost her crown due to her sheer negligence on acknowledging India's concerns regarding procurements, supply, services and ongoing military projects. The differences can be bridged only when Russia gives a clarity on her India policy and cooperation. Let's hope Putin and Modi will sort out the differences and give a new life to India-Russia relations.

Well I am sure the Russians are celebrating India's misery over bottles of Vodka! They are doing the BEST they can, with limited resources, and the US invading every country that buys weapons from Russia one by one , believe me its not easy. The defense industry has reached a stage where even countries like US, UK, France, Germany and Sweed's are finding it hard to be competitive standing alone and independent. In the US there are laws against cooperate monopoly, well there are no laws on international weapons trade, and in spite of the US. laws even their goverment cant prevent monopolies like Intel, Microsoft, wall mart etc.

And seriously what are we moving towards.... CAN YOU OR DO YOU SEE INDIA BEING THE 51ST STATE OF THE US. IN THE DAYS TO COME? WELL THE UK AND ISRAEL ARE!, BUT STILL THE US DOESN'T SHARE ITS BEST AND MOST ADVANCED MILITARY TECHNOLOGIES WITH THEM (F22, B20 BOMBER, COMANCHE....ETC). WE ALREADY SAW HOW THE US. SCUTTLED THE FRENCH MISTRAL DEAL, SO ESSENTIALLY THERE WILL BE ONLY ONE NATION DICTATING THE TERMS ONCE RUSSIA COLLAPSES. SEE THE LARGER PICTURE NOT THE IMMEDIATE FRUITS. WE HAVE ALREADY SEEN HOW GOOD THE UN. IS AT DISSUADING THE US., FROM INVADING OTHER COUNTRIES ...is THIS the future you WANT to move towards?Russia shares its most hi-tec systems with India.

Short sightedness is what made India loose its Independence , every kingdom in India saw what was good for them. And the British played them like a flute, in a classic ME v/s You.

 

[brational]

^^Good logic. I respect your views, but you bypassed the concerns

negligence on acknowledging India's concerns regarding procurements, supply, services and ongoing military projects.

with geopolitics/monopoly/hegemony/51st State.

I love Russia and believe in a clean relation.

 

[pmaitra]

wrong.. India hasnt really bought anything apart from apaches and CH47s that in any way undercut Russian dominance in India's defense sector.. so the whole- India buying weapons from others- is lame.

C-17, C-130J.

And yes we do expect Russia to take our concern seriously and ponder over what they are getting into.

In international relations, it is never one sided. Yes, with the USSR it was, with India gaining much more from the USSR, than the other way around. Not any more.

If India can ignore Russia's concerns and buy from Russia's enemy, then Russia can ignore India's concerns and sell to India's enemy. We can draw as many red-lines as we want.

Look this is buyers market, we pump in kind of money into Russian defence sector hardly anyone can match apart from china[but then they reverse engineer it and Russians loose out].

We either pump money into SevMash (Gorshkov), or we pump money into Boeing (C-17). We always pump money. What are the long term gains?

Lets stand up for our interest and stop so called self pity. If we pump in money and if we buy weapons Russians need to take our interest very seriously.

It is in India's interest to have a multi-polar world. With the US going around the world bullying every country, India needs to support the only one who can challenge the bully. If Russia disintegrated tomorrow, I give this so called "friend" US no more than 12 months before it will begin to bully India. PRC will not challenge the US, because its economy is closely tied with the US economy. I don't wish to see India becoming a playground for control between the US and PRC.

[Side note to @Casper: Instead of going around and talking about India's interest, please get an understanding of the big picture, if you truly care about India.]

what?!! USSR had their own problems with China and had little to do during chinese invasion..hell it was US that gave us help.arrived after the war...but came nevertheless.

Please see the quote below. If we don't learn from our past, we are bound to suffer like we have suffered in the past.

Short sightedness is what made India loose its Independence , every kingdom in India saw what was good for them. And the British played them like a flute, in a classic ME v/s You.

 

[ghost]

@pmaitra sir,

It is in India's interest to have a multi-polar world. With the US going around the world bullying every country, India needs to support the only one who can challenge the bully. If Russia disintegrated tomorrow, I give this so called "friend" US no more than 12 months before it will begin to bully India. PRC will not challenge the US, because its economy is closely tied with the US economy. I don't wish to see India becoming a playground for control between the US and PRC.

Russia tops Obama's hit list, not China

The India-Russia annual summitry had lately become a tepid affair — something like the anniversary of a boring marriage. How often can an aged couple arouse passion? But the upcoming event bringing President Vladimir Putin to Delhi next month promises to be exciting. Geopolitics may act like an aphrodisiac.

The time-tested relationship is coming under a rare challenge. A rank outsider threatens to barge into it and throw garbage at it no sooner than Putin returns to Moscow.
The pundits in India do not realize the sheer depth of the US president Barack Obama's visceral dislike of Putin. It is an animosity felt in the blood and felt along the heart that the usually laid-back president can barely conceal, as the G20 at Brisbane revealed.
The general drift of the discourses by Indian pundits is that Obama's forthcoming visit to India In January will be about cementing a US-Indian partnership in the 'Indo-Pacific'. It may be true insofar as the US aspires to get India on board as a fellow-traveller ("lynchpin") in its 'pivot' strategy in Asia.
Nonetheless, make no mistake that it is actually Russia today that tops Obama's hit list — and not China. The Washington Post carried a fascinating opinion piece recently authored by two prominent American pundits who were evaluating how Obama could tackle the two troublesome emerging powers, Russia and China, that threaten the US' global hegemony. Their conclusion?
They wrote: "The good news is that, unlike Putin's Russia, China is not committed or destined to a revisionist path. President Obama's trip to Beijing this month demonstrated that it is possible to steer the relationship with China toward a more stable course."
Indeed, the heart of the matter is that Russia poses a challenge to the US's global standing in a way that China does not and cannot for a foreseeable future.
At the end of the day, Moscow is the only power on the planet that has the capability to negotiate the global strategic balance with the US. China simply lacks that strategic prowess for one or two generations to come.
The US undersecretary for arms control and international security Rose Gottemoeller stated in a speech in Romania last Tuesday that Russia has more anti-ballistic missile interceptors than the US. She claimed Russia has 68 interceptors at the Moscow Anti-Missile Ballistic System (which is 24 more than the 30 interceptors currently deployed by the US in Alaska plus the 14 more that it plans to deploy.)
The raison d'etre of the relentless containment strategy toward Russia pursued by successive US administrations, therefore, needs to be put in perspective.
The huge strategic backdrop to the Russian-American rivalry has never really been in doubt for close observers of that relationship through the past decade and more, as it picked momentum through the 'color revolutions' in Georgia and Ukraine in the early part of the last decade, through Georgia's war with Russia in 2008 and in the present Ukraine conflict. (See a hard-hitting Heritage Foundation paper dated March 2009 titled How the Obama Should Deal with Russia's Revisionist Foreign Policy.)
The differentiated approach toward Russia and China on the part of the Obama administration is at once apparent. While the US is piling sanctions on Russia with a view to weaken its economy and force it to curtail its defence budget (which registered a 31 percent increase in the five-year period from 2008 thanks to the boom in the Russian economy), Obama had a most productive visit to China recently.
The qualitative upgrade of the Sino-American relationship is apparent from the White House readout detailing the outcome of Obama's visit to Beijing. It should come as an eyeopener that the readout says, inter alia:
"The United States and China commit to work together in support of a shared vision for Afghanistan: a democratic, sovereign, unified, and secure nation. Together with Afghanistan, the United States and China agreed to convene a US-China-Afghanistan dialogue to advance this vision. The US and China agree to work together to support Afghanistan's government of national unity, security forces, and economic development, so that Afghanistan cannot be used as a safe haven for terrorists. They agree to support and Afghan-led, Afghan-owned process of peace and reconciliation"¦ they also commit to each support economic development projects and frameworks to foster Afghanistan's regional integration and build government capacity." [Emphasis added.]
In sum, the US is courting China as partner in the first circle of its strategies in Central and South Asia. Again, while the US has no worthwhile economic relationship with Russia, the Sino-American partnership is one of profound interdependency where each side has become a stakeholder in the other's economic welfare.
Indeed, the US agenda to 'isolate' Russia can never work. Russia has been and still remains an avid 'globalizer'. Its agenda of Eurasian integration is steadily advancing and is attracting worldwide interest. Around 40 states have officially sought free trade agreements with the Eurasian Economic Union.
Nor is the world caught up in a rift of competing ideologies today. Russia too belongs to the capitalist world. Hardly anyone outside the western world is in a mood to listen to the US, including even the close allies like Israel or Turkey.
Ironically, the Saudi Foreign Minister Faisal Al-Saud visited Moscow last week to discuss with Russia the state of confusion in the oil market due to the fall in oil prices.
As Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov put it, here, the two countries "see eye to eye" by agreeing on the need to keep a balance between supply and demand and to reject any "political or geopolitical factors impacting the market." And this just before the crucial OPEC meet due in London on Thursday (which is expected to discuss cuts in oil production.)
Having said that, India is not like Saudi Arabia or Israel, which became Russia's interlocutors only in the post-Cold Ware era. India, on the contrary, is one of Russia's oldest and closest friends in modern history. Any erosion of that relationship would have a deleterious effect on both in strategic terms.
It is not so much the content of that relationship that matters as the relationship itself. Speaking of India, the relationship with Russia provided the anchor sheet of the country's strategic autonomy for the past six to seven decades.
India diminishes without that anchor sheet — its capacity to maneuver shrinks, its ability to develop options gets affected, its confidence about an absolute certainty to fall back in an increasingly volatile international environment gets shaken. Suffice it to say, Russia is irreplaceable in India's strategic matrix.
On the contrary, the US strategy toward India has consistently aimed at weakening the latter's fixation over strategic autonomy (which has been the stumbling block in shepherding India into a US-led regional alliance system).
The concerted assault on India's policy of 'non-alignment', the debunking of Jawaharlal Nehru's foreign policies or the flattering talk pandering to India's great-power vanities have only served this American objective.
No doubt, an erosion of Indian-Russian ties will serve the US's business interests, too. Firstly, India is still Russia's number one market for arms exports. By rolling back the Russian presence, a significant source of income for Russia dries up. This is one thing.
On the other hand, the US can never match Russia when it comes to transfer of military technology to India. The US will never give nuclear submarines on lease to India or part with an aircraft carrier. It is yet to translate into deeds its promise to give India reprocessing technology, as expected under the 2008 nuclear deal.
Without a strong Russian competitor, the US will be in a better position to keep dodging any worthwhile transfer of military technology to the Indian market.
Secondly, Moscow has a game plan to diversify its energy exports away from Europe by tapping the Asian market. The western sanctions have prompted Russia to seek new Asian partners. China has been a beneficiary. India too is potentially a big energy partner for Russia.
All in all, therefore, the visits by Putin and Obama to Delhi in successive months against the backdrop of the cold-war tensions in world politics pose a profound intellectual challenge to the Indian leadership. The bottom line is that a strong relationship with Russia enables India to negotiate more effectively with the US.
Therefore, Putin's visit to India next month should not get reduced to a symbolic event, an annual ritual of sorts that somehow has to be gone through. It is crucial that Moscow does its homework — and the Indian side raises its expectations too — and packs Putin's visit with froward-looking content that can reenergize the strategic partnership.
A disinformation campaign is already afoot in the American media aimed at poisoning the climate of Putin's visit — the canard being spread is that Russia is ditching India and courting Pakistan.
Whereas, it will take light years for a truly strategic Russia-Pakistan relationship to shape up, if at all. Russia's search to normalize relations with Pakistan is perfectly understandable, given the acute regional security scenario and Moscow's keenness to retain a level of influence over the Afghan developments that impact the volatile situation in North Caucasus and Central Asia.
Of course, a strategic realignment may become inevitable in South Asia if India finally abandons its independent foreign policies and its strategic autonomy and instead aligns with the US in a manner that hurts Russia's core concerns and vital interests. But under prime minister Narendra Modi's leadership, it is hard to imagine that happening, whatever the self-styled pundits may be saying to the contrary.

Russia tops Obama’s hit list, not China - Indian Punchline

 

[sgarg]

@ghost, we cannot downgrade our relationship with Russia just because Obama dislikes Putin. USA has its own priorities. India has to see what makes sense in its own external environment.

We should take a principled stand. Consistency always pays in the long run. India should not take a stand under pressure or for short term goals.

 

[sorcerer]

Before we discuss about the depth of defence relation between India and US, we have to understand the basic framework or policies on which the defence relation between India and USA is getting built.
Most defence contracts between India and USA could work around these basic building blocks, becuase in my opinion thats how politics work. Politics between countries are built on policies and not on hunch.
=========

INDIA-US DEFENCE RELATIONS

India-US military relations derive from a common belief in freedom, democracy, and the rule of law, and seek to advance shared security interests. The defence cooperation and engagement between the two countries has increased significantly over the past decade, in step with the overall deepening of India-US relations. The 2005 New Framework Agreement has laid strong foundations leading to mutually beneficial defence cooperation activities through security dialogue, service-level exchanges, defence exercises and defence trade & technology collaboration. While Raksha Mantri Shri AK Antony visited Washington in September 2010, former Defence Secretary Mr Leon Panetta visited New Delhi in June 2012 and asserted the importance of strong security relationship with India.

Recent Developments

The new US Strategic Military Guidance announced in January 2012 by President Obama puts greater emphasis on the Pacific region and refers to India as a 'Strategic Partner'. Our common interests include:-

* Maintaining security and stability.
* Defeating violent religious extremism and terrorism.
* Disaster relief.
* Preventing the spread of weapons of mass destruction and associated materials, data, and technologies.
* Protecting the free flow of commerce and resources through the vital sea lanes of Indian Ocean.

During the recent visit of Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh to USA in September 2013, a Joint Declaration on Defence Cooperation highlighted the deepening of Indo-US relations. India and the United States endorse the following general principles for fulfilling the vision of expanded defence cooperation:-


* The United States and India share common security interests and place each other at the same level as their closest partners. This principle will apply with respect to defence technology transfer, trade, research,co-development and co-production for defence articles and services,including the most advanced and sophisticated technology. They will work to improve licensing processes, and, where applicable, follow expedited license approval processes to facilitate this cooperation. The United States and India are also committed to protecting each other's sensitive technology and information.

* The United States continues to fully support India's full membership in the four international export control regimes, which would further facilitate technology sharing.
* The two sides will continue their efforts to strengthen mutual understanding of their respective procurement systems and approval processes, and to address process-related difficulties in defence trade, technology transfer and collaboration.


Visits
Chairman Chiefs' of Staff Committee and Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne paid a goodwill visit to US during Jul 2013. Deputy Secretary of Defence Ashton Carter visited India during September 2013 and met senior Indian officials and defence industry leaders. In his meetings, Deputy Secretary Carter reiterated that the United States and India are destined to be partners on the world stage due to their shared common values and outlook on a wide range of issues. The visit by General Raymond T Odierno, Chief of Staff US Army to India to meet senior leaders in Jul 2013 and the Counter Part Visit by Chief of the Army Staff General Bikram Singh in Dec 2013 has consolidated military relationship and provided desired impetus to further exchanges. General Singh utilized the opportunity to carry forward the growing understanding and relationship with senior US Army leadership, sensitize them of the emerging regional security dynamics from India's perspective, observe the latest modernization plans being implemented and understand the challenges faced by US Army in their ongoing transformation after their experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Institutional Mechanisms for Dialogue

The Defence Policy Group (DPG) gives policy level direction to defence cooperation, reviews all matters and resolves broader defence cooperation policy issues. Various institutional mechanisms under the DPG which coordinate and implement defence cooperation in specific areas include:-

Defence Joint Working Group (DJWG) undertakes mid-year review of progress made in the fulfillment of decisions taken by the DPG. It also reviews matters, which need to be taken up by the DPG.

Defence Procurement and Production Group (DPPG) reviews opportunities for cooperation in defence acquisition, transfer of technology/collaboration and defence related industries.

Senior Technology Security Group (STSG) is charged with undertaking review of technology security issues and also increase mutual understanding of each other's policies and systems in respect of technology security for defence-related equipment.

Joint Technical Group (JTG) looks at potential for cooperation in defence research and development.

Military Cooperation Group (MCG) reviews Services-related cooperation matters and inter-service coordination.

Service-to-Service Executive Steering Groups (ESGs) review service-to-service cooperation and report to the Military Cooperation Group.

Joint Exercises
Joint Exercises between the three Services have improved in scale and frequency with each passing year. Indian Army has been involved in joint exercises with the US Army on low intensity conflict, counter terrorism and counter insurgency in varied terrains. Ex- Yudh Abhyas-13, a Brigade Command Post Exercise was held at Fort Bragg, North Carolina in May 2013 to develop interoperability between the two forces by sharing techniques, tactics and procedures and familiarization of weapons & equipment. Exercise Shatrujeet 2013, an amphibious exercise between the US Marines and Indian Army was conducted as a table-top event in Trivandrum in Sep 2013.
The Indian Navy conducts the Malabar series of exercises with the US Navy involving contraband control, sea control, air defence exercises and sea replenishment. Malabar 2013 was held in November 2013. Participation from the US Navy included the missile destroyer USS McCampbell and P3C aircraft, while the Navy participated with Frigate Shivalik, Missile Destroyer Ranvijay and TU-142M aircraft.

Industry Linkages
The AEROINDIA and annual DEFEXPO shows have seen very good participation from US companies in recent times, an indicator of their serious interest in the Indian defence market. Several major US defence corporations have established presence in India and are operating directly (Boeing, Lockheed Martin, GE, to name a few). India's revised Defence Procurement Policy, which came into effect in June 2013 aims to make procurement more transparent, impartial and accountable. Recent changes in India's Offsets policy seek to promote indigenous defence industry while enabling foreign vendors to create offset programs in anticipation of future obligations.

Conclusion
To achieve full vision of expanded defence cooperation, identification of specific opportunities for cooperative and collaborative projects in advanced defence technologies and systems will be pursued ahead to reflect full potential of the relationship. The evolution of US-India security and military cooperation relationship moves forward in the backdrop of the broad interests of both countries. In the larger perspective, Indo-US defence relations are poised to remain on a higher progressive trajectory.



https://www.indianembassy.org/pages.php?id=53

============
Procurements from USA would be based on these lines of engagement and is not to contain Russia or be a threat to Russia. India tends to keep her options open and that is a good thing from purchases to partnerships.

 

[sorcerer]

It is Russia, which would gain the most in this strategic triangle. It would help Russia to check NATO's eastward expansion. It would pose as an alternative power bloc to the US and boost Russia's role in world politics. Some analysts say that Russia's aim is to solidify Moscow's place between East and the West, Atlantic and the Pacific, NATO and China. Though Russia's aim of being part of the strategic triangle is yet to materialise, its urgency is low with the formation of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) under the stewardship of China. Though formed with the aim of countering terrorism, separatism and religious extremism, the SCO has a larger goal of counteracting US unilateralism.

Russian linking and inking with Pakistan has more to do with expanding its influence in the east.
Oil and defence being 2 major opening lines of bilateral talks.

The Fallacy in the Russia-India-China Triangle | Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses

 

[Neo]

Pakistan, Russia sign defence co-operation agreement, discuss helo sales

Farhan Bokhari, Islamabad and Nikolai Novichkov, Moscow - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
25 November 2014

Russia and Pakistan signed an ambitious agreement to expand defence and military ties on 20 November, setting in motion a new era of co-operation between the two former Cold War foes.

The agreement followed the recent confirmation by Pakistani officials to IHS Jane's that the two countries had agreed on the sale of up to 20 Mil Mi-35 attack helicopters to Islamabad. If concluded the helicopter deal would be the biggest military sale by Russia to Pakistan.

A military diplomatic source in Moscow told IHS Jane's that Pakistan is also interested in buying a batch of Mi-28NE 'Havoc' attack helicopters and that a Russian delegation is preparing to present data on the Mi-28NE as well as the Pantsir-S1 (SA-22), Tor-M2KM (SA-15), and Buk-M2 (SA-17) surface-to-air missile systems to Pakistani officials at the forthcoming International Defence Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS) 2014 in Karachi.


Pakistan, Russia sign defence co-operation agreement, discuss helo sales - IHS Jane's 360

 

[pmaitra]

@pmaitra sir,









Russia tops Obama's hit list, not China - Indian Punchline

Interesting excerpts from the article:

It may be true insofar as the US aspires to get India on board as a fellow-traveller ("lynchpin") in its 'pivot' strategy in Asia.

In sum, the US is courting China as partner in the first circle of its strategies in Central and South Asia. Again, while the US has no worthwhile economic relationship with Russia, the Sino-American partnership is one of profound interdependency where each side has become a stakeholder in the other's economic welfare.

On the contrary, the US strategy toward India has consistently aimed at weakening the latter's fixation over strategic autonomy (which has been the stumbling block in shepherding India into a US-led regional alliance system).

The bottom line is that a strong relationship with Russia enables India to negotiate more effectively with the US.

A disinformation campaign is already afoot in the American media aimed at poisoning the climate of Putin's visit — the canard being spread is that Russia is ditching India and courting Pakistan.

Of course, a strategic realignment may become inevitable in South Asia if India finally abandons its independent foreign policies and its strategic autonomy and instead aligns with the US in a manner that hurts Russia's core concerns and vital interests. But under prime minister Narendra Modi's leadership, it is hard to imagine that happening, whatever the self-styled pundits may be saying to the contrary.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Compersion]

a noted point that USA and PRC relationship is economically strong and linked that makes USA and PRC strong (and Russia has no say and actually makes PRC strong to ignore Russia viewpoints now).

But when India wants to do military deal with USA and India is open about it (the purpose is not Russian) it annoys the Russians.

 

[sgarg]

But when India wants to do military deal with USA and India is open about it (the purpose is not Russian) it annoys the Russians.

Lets not use the word "annoy". Russians know the reasons why India buys from US. Now the relationship is different, and is driven by mutual benefit.

We must not stand in the way if Russia wants to sell to Pakistan just as we would not stand in the way if Russia sells to Bangladesh or Sri Lanka. There is no benefit in using influence in blocking such sales.

The influence should be used for more worthwhile purposes.

 

[Neil]

C-17, C-130J.

Sir no equivalent on Russian side. The reason we went for FMS route was simply because there were no capable plane or didnt match the kind of capability C17/C130 gave
eg:

"The C-17s have tremendously boosted India's capabilities for strategic operations overseas. It would have required three to four trips by our older IL-76 aircraft to carry the heavy load to Rwanda, which is the gateway to Congo. The C-17 will do in a single non-stop flight," said the source.

In international relations, it is never one sided. Yes, with the USSR it was, with India gaining much more from the USSR, than the other way around. Not any more.

If India can ignore Russia's concerns and buy from Russia's enemy, then Russia can ignore India's concerns and sell to India's enemy. We can draw as many red-lines as we want.

Sir.. Russia has been supplying to India's enemy- China. Also Russian has supplied pakistan with Mi17 IL76 and JF 17 engine in the past. So it not like India is diversifying its inventory and Russia is not. Also if u look at our procurement even today Russia still is most favored when it comes to offensive weapons used by India. Look at our US procurement and most of them has been in surveillance and defencive capability bearing few.

We either pump money into SevMash (Gorshkov), or we pump money into Boeing (C-17). We always pump money. What are the long term gains?

absolutely sir.. i hope with the new govt in place and make in India pitch getting louder we will pump money into L&T and TATA

It is in India's interest to have a multi-polar world. With the US going around the world bullying every country, India needs to support the only one who can challenge the bully. If Russia disintegrated tomorrow, I give this so called "friend" US no more than 12 months before it will begin to bully India. PRC will not challenge the US, because its economy is closely tied with the US economy. I don't wish to see India becoming a playground for control between the US and PRC.

well sir.. i sure hope that India will stand up and counter US hegemony. Rest agreed.

 

[ghost]

a noted point that USA and PRC relationship is economically strong and linked that makes USA and PRC strong (and Russia has no say and actually makes PRC strong to ignore Russia viewpoints now).

But when India wants to do military deal with USA and India is open about it (the purpose is not Russian) it annoys the Russians.

Sir,

Maybe because of these reasons.
As per Viktor Komardin, the head of the Russian delegation to India's military airshow Aero India.

He questioned the financial logic of the Indian government to procure weapons systems from countries that were not as longstanding partners as Russia despite getting no transfer of technology.

"It is not fair. Arms sales in military technology projects are now all politics. Billions of dollars are paid for procurements without transfer of technology. It is improper, it is unfair," Komardin said. "I accept politics but fair should be fair. Russia is a strategic partner of India. We want to be dealt with as partners," he added.

Komardin said India was also buying weapons and equipment from companies and countries that were also selling to Pakistan. The French, he said, had sold Agusta submarines to Pakistan and were selling Scorpene submarines to India. Lockheed Martin had sold Hercules aircraft to both Pakistan and India. Boeing, too, was selling to both Pakistan and India."But we do not do it, India does not want us to do it and we are a friend as a friend can be. We do not turn our backs to India."

Komardin said Russia also thinks the choice of the Boeing-made Chinook helicopter for the IAF's heavy-lift needs was wrong.

"What is the Chinook compared to (the Russian) Mi-26 (that was also in the competition)? It is a baby. The Mi-26 can lift the Chinook by the neck!" he said.

This is true. About three years ago, a Chinook helicopter of the US forces that went down in Afghanistan was salvaged by a chartered MI-26. Photographs of the MI-26 with the Chinook underslung have since been widely publicised.

Asked about erratic supplies of spares for Russian-origin equipment and delays in deliveries, Komardin fumed that was also the case with other suppliers. He said the French had delayed the delivery of Scorpene submarines to the Indian Navy by three years, as the delivery of the Goshkov carrier has been delayed. "But there is talk in India of imposing penalties on us and not on the French," he rued.

Komardin said that unlike its competitors, Russia did not want to publicise its defence deals with India "because we do not believe in disclosing Indian national secrets".

Russia rants at India’s military buys