Moscow-Islamabad partnership not against Delhi

[prohumanity]

India and Russia have been friends always and will remain friends . I was trying to make a financial argument with Pakistani who was jumping up and down about MI-35 deal offered by Russia. The relationship between India and Russia is much stronger for one huge reason and that is, Russian people have this bond of love with India. and Indian people have this bond of trust and love with Russia. Nothing can wipe this people to people connection and liking.

 

[DingDong]

India and Russia have been friends always and will remain friends . I was trying to make a financial argument with Pakistani who was jumping up and down about MI-35 deal offered by Russia. The relationship between India and Russia is much stronger for one huge reason and that is, Russian people have this bond of love with India. and Indian people have this bond of trust and love with Russia. Nothing can wipe this people to people connection and liking.

Even the most heart-touching love stories might end up in bitter divorce. There has been very little cultural and economic exchange between India and Russia, Indo-Russian relation is restricted between governments and PSUs. We might not like US' policies but as far as people-to-people interaction is concerned the US beats Russia easily. Russia is also one of the worst xenophobic countries and racist attacks against Indians living in Russia are not unheard of.

Russia venturing into our region without taking our consent is not a welcome move and India must not take it lightly.

 

[sob]

Russian economy is in doldrums and they need hard cash. If the Pakistanis are able to hand over cash then expect more defence deals to be signed in the near future.

 

[jamesvaikom]

Soft loan is not free, it still adds up to foreign dept.
As I stated before, India purchased cheap and subsidized weapons from russia under a barter program till the early ninetees. Indian rice, wheat, sugar and other exports were bartered for weapons for decades. Does it mean you got them free??

USA gave a very little under EDA. And whatever we got, we had to pay for the upgrades as they came from reserves.

For China selling toys to Pakistan is better than spending money in Indo-China border. But for Russia selling weapons to Pakistan is to make money. So let pakistan buy more weapons from Russia than from China.

In past we had less choices. Now we can buy from more countries. Economic tie-ups with west helped us earn more money. So now we can buy best weapons instead of cheap weapons.

 

[Blackwater]

FyI In 1953 when Pakistan became a US ally we signed the CENTO and SEATO agreement and opened our bases for USAF and US Navy. There was no Marshall Plan for Pakistan like Europe and Japan but heavy military support to keep the Soviets away from the warm waters of the Arabian Sea. After quitting the military agreements with the US in the aftermath of two wars with India, we suffered heavy restrictions and embargoes till the Soviets invaded Afghanistan and Pakistan once again became a major US ally and the EDA program became available.
So whatever weapons we got, we either paid with money or with logistic support to US armed forces. The whole fleet of Mirages, F-16's and F-7's is paid for. Under the EDA we recieved some P-3C and C-130's free of charge but we had to pay for refurbishments and modifications. No free lunch there. Pakistan does not get ftee weapons from any other country than the USA which again is very limited.

I am not lecturing you on Russia, just trying to explain that a military agreement between Russia and Pakistan is symbolic and if India distances itself away from Russia, it will be your loss. Pakistan and Russia will never be allies...not in foreseeable future.

u r allowing russians now by accepting their lollipop of mi-35

 

[Blackwater]

Cash is never a problem for our defence requirements.
Our military budget stands at $11 billion and its rising.

true, its explained below

Nawaz= yala ya habibi,islam khatre me hoti,$$$ deti, kufur se larti

paise milge ha hathiyar lelo

kam ban gaya

 

[sgarg]

@Compersion, Russia is part of BRICS. The BRICS brings many benefits to Russia. We have already seen many activities like creation of BRICS bank which will lend money to infrastructure projects. Things are going in right direction.

Russia can create some JVs to service equipment sold to India. This will help increase Russia's reputation as a supplier, and will also create an alternative source for Russia itself. Russia can also buy vehicles, agricultural equipment, components etc. in India. There are a lot of possibilities. There is no isolation between Russia and India.

If Russia asks, India will give Russia a credit line.

Russia's trade with India is very low.

India's exports to Russia contracted 6.46% in 2013-14 to $2.15 billion, while its imports from the country shrank 7.85% to $3.9 billion during the same year.

Read more at: http://www.livemint.com/Politics/Fl...-boost-exports-to-Russia.html?utm_source=copy

The trade can increase greatly if ruble-rupee swaps are available. The currency volatility is a big problem in trade. I would prefer India buys from Russia in ruble and Russians buy from India in rupees.

The central banks of both countries can make large amounts available to each other.

 

[Prometheus]

But Russia can continue backstabbing india. We are fine with it.

We (India), started the back stabbing ...... Russia is doing what is necessary to defend itself against an unreliable ally.

 

[brational]

The problem is not Russia but the Indian mindset. You want to have it all and own the world. Blackmail is a cold war tactic and it doesn't work anymore. Russian economy may be in trouble but she has China on her side and there is still a lot of hi tech stuff and technology to sell to save russian industry. For decades India has relied on cheap imports and technology from Russia and if you think that you can put all your eggs in western baskets then you are wrong. The west is expensive, have political implications and India is cash strapped and will remain like that for another couple of years. You need Russia as much as shr needs you. Hurting Russia therefor will hurt your own industry and economy.

Superb observation! Everything that produced in India use Russian machinery, raw materials come from Russia. India begs $$$ from Russia to support Indian Economy. I believe this Indian Economy and Industry part has been recently introduced in Pakistani Talim (Educational Curriculum). Kudos to Neo the Great Paki!

 

[DingDong]

We (India), started the back stabbing ...... Russia is doing what is necessary to defend itself against an unreliable ally.

Are you a Russian spokesperson?

 

[Prometheus]

Are you a Russian spokesperson?

Do I NEED to be to make a point???

 

[Zebra]

India and Russia have been friends always and will remain friends . I was trying to make a financial argument with Pakistani who was jumping up and down about MI-35 deal offered by Russia. The relationship between India and Russia is much stronger for one huge reason and that is, Russian people have this bond of love with India. and Indian people have this bond of trust and love with Russia. Nothing can wipe this people to people connection and liking.

Sir, there are more Indian people in US then in Russia, if I am not wrong.

Does it mean they love US more?

OR

They hate US more!

Similar way they don't like to be in Russia, may be for some reason. I guess.

Just saying though.

 

[Zebra]

We (India), started the back stabbing ...... Russia is doing what is necessary to defend itself against an unreliable ally.

Can we take it other way.....!

We (India), doing what is necessary to defend ourself against unreliable neighbours but Russia started back stabbing.

 

[Prometheus]

Can we take it other way.....!

We (India), doing what is necessary to defend ourself against unreliable neighbours but Russia started back stabbing.

Well friendship can be tested only in troubled times, you cant test loyalty or friendship in fair weather. When India was poor and weak, Russia stood by us!. Today Russia is weak and is being isolated, while India is growing ever so more powerful, its time for India to be tested. When times are good and our economy is booming, see how everyone wants to be India's friends.... but in troubled times, it was only Russia stood by us.

 

[Zebra]

Well friendship can be tested only in troubled times, you cant test loyalty or friendship in fair weather. When India was poor and weak, Russia stood by us!. Today Russia is weak and being isolated, while India is growing ever so more powerful, its time for India to be tested. When times are good and our economy is booming, see how everyone wants to be India's friends.... but in troubled times only Russia stood by us.

How?

Anyway, whatever it may be, keep it in mind we paid for everything.

And the their price was not small.

On top of it Ruble-Rupee rate was very artificial in those days.

They wanted to keep India on their side and stood with India for their benefit only.

 

[Zebra]

Well friendship can be tested only in troubled times, you cant test loyalty or friendship in fair weather. When India was poor and weak, Russia stood by us!. Today Russia is weak and is being isolated, while India is growing ever so more powerful, its time for India to be tested. When times are good and our economy is booming, see how everyone wants to be India's friends.... but in troubled times, it was only Russia stood by us.

What about my question......!

This one.....

Can we take it other way.....!

We (India), doing what is necessary to defend ourself against unreliable neighbours but Russia started back stabbing.

 

[Prometheus]

How?

Anyway, whatever it may be, keep it in mind we paid for everything.

And the their price was not small.

On top of it Ruble-Rupee rate was very artificial in those days.

They wanted to keep India on their side and stood with India for their benefit only.

This is exactly the kind of nonsense that the Bangladeshi's & Nepali's say about India, ohh India helped us because it was in THEIR interests. Well of course it was in our interests!, but we risked a three front war with the US, China and Pakistan during the 1972 Bangladesh war. Had it not been for the Russian support in the UN, help by pressurizing China, and the Russian subs in the Bay of Bengal, we certainly would have been attacked!.... now how easy it is to forget that. And you are talking of US as an ally? the same country that threatened to Invade us , and gave FREE arms to Pakistan??? had it not been for the US support to Pakistan, Pakistan would have decades ago come to its senses and would have NEVER dared to challenge India. Can you forget that EVERY other country refused to sell arms to India (even if we were willing to PAY them), after Pakistan entered SEATO?. India suffered DECADES of poverty, thanks to the Western sanctions. we werent allowed to import super computers and computers or ANY technology. Its EASY to forget or distort history.

 

[Zebra]

This is exactly the kind of nonsense that the Bangladeshi's & Nepali's say about India, ohh India helped us because it was in THEIR interests. Well of course it was in our interests!, but we risked a three front war with the US, China and Pakistan during the 1972 Bangladesh war. Had it not been for the Russian support in the UN, help by pressurizing China, and the Russian subs in the Bay of Bengal, we certainly would have been attacked!.... now how easy it is to forget that. And you are talking of US as an ally? the same country that threatened to Invade us , and gave FREE arms to Pakistan??? had it not been for the US support to Pakistan, Pakistan would have decades ago come to its senses and would have NEVER dared to challenge India. Can you forget that EVERY other country refused to sell arms to India (even if we were willing to PAY them), after Pakistan entered SEATO?. India suffered DECADES of poverty, thanks to the Western sanctions. we werent allowed to import super computers and computers or ANY technology. Its EASY to forget or distort history.

Sir, even a die-hard socialist (but ex-DFI member) also posted it here on DFI, that it was US who wanted to create Bangladesh and on top of it they wanted to make their navy base there in Bangladesh. To keep US away, India and USSR did whatever they can, in 1971.

 

[Zebra]

This is exactly the kind of nonsense that the Bangladeshi's & Nepali's say about India, ohh India helped us because it was in THEIR interests. Well of course it was in our interests!, but we risked a three front war with the US, China and Pakistan during the 1972 Bangladesh war. Had it not been for the Russian support in the UN, help by pressurizing China, and the Russian subs in the Bay of Bengal, we certainly would have been attacked!.... now how easy it is to forget that. And you are talking of US as an ally? the same country that threatened to Invade us , and gave FREE arms to Pakistan??? had it not been for the US support to Pakistan, Pakistan would have decades ago come to its senses and would have NEVER dared to challenge India. Can you forget that EVERY other country refused to sell arms to India (even if we were willing to PAY them), after Pakistan entered SEATO?. India suffered DECADES of poverty, thanks to the Western sanctions. we werent allowed to import super computers and computers or ANY technology. Its EASY to forget or distort history.

What kind of sense and nonsense you people are talking here when just for your Russian love, you guys are happy to keep India's interests on stake!

 

[Zebra]

^^

Would you please say anything about this......

Russians are ready to accept GoI's requests about FGFA JV manufacturing in India and ToT?

On top of that, are they ready to consider GoI's "red line"?

Some Russian supporter may clear these matters on DFI. Any news / updates, please.