More Talwar Class for Indian Navy

[SELVAM]

Ukrainian engines of the Indian ships ARE confirmed. This was a precondition before the deal was signed. Besides, the Russian engines will take years before they are ready.

The United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) will resume the construction of the last three Project 11356 frigates in 2018. Earlier, the construction of these ships was suspended due to Kiev's refusal to supply gas turbine power plants. The decision to resume the work was made following the preliminary testing of the latest Russian gas turbine units M70FRU and M90FR.
Their construction was frozen because of Ukraine's refusal to supply the DS71 and D090 power plants manufactured by Zorya-Mashproekt, Nikolaev, Ukraine and previously paid by Russia. It was assumed that the "Admirals" would be sold to the Indian Navy because of the inability to complete them. Aleksey Rakhmanov, the head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, told Izvestia that the construction of the ships will be resumed in 2018, after the appropriate tests and follow-on development to accommodate the new power plants.

"The decision has been made and R&D work will be required," explained Rakhmanov. However, due to the fact that design proceeded with regard to the groundwork laid by Russian gas turbine builders, no major modifications to the architecture of the ships will be needed. "We do not think that these R&D works will be so significant as to throw us back a few years ago."

Russian Navy Admiral Essen frigate sailing through Dutch EEZ in the North Sea. Picture: Royal Netherlands Navy


As noted by Rakhmanov, the timing depends not only on gas turbine units - the shipbuilders will have to resume contracts on all major systems. "Therefore, it is very important here that we are able to comply with the warranty periods, the service life of equipment and the corresponding storage life," the head of USC said.

As Izvestia was told at the Navy's Main HQ, the tandem power plant configuration of two M70FRU gas turbine engines is being considered as the core project. According to preliminary calculations, this should ensure the maximum power output of 14,000 hp. In this case, the ship will be able to move at a speed of 30 knots and the cruising range will be 4850 nautical miles (9,000 km)

http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...ast-three-project-11356-frigates-in-2018.html

 

[Rahul Singh]

Look like Modi only talks about Make in India but keeps on importing all the weapons. Currently their is no such need to import frigates, we could have given our local shipyards order for the same. In worse case the money could be used to improve infrastructure of local shipyard.
Modi has been importing a lot of weapons to no avail.

main issue here is paying 1 billion usd to 4000 to frigates.

This deal was signed at Goa during BRICS 2016 and it was to entice Russia into passing India specific resolution (Of course, that did not happen). So it was basically a price to be paid for geopolitical gains. Nothing to do with Make in India.

It is another thing that even today GOI is pursuing this project which may or may not be a compensation for something unknown which may or may not be for stopping Russia from taking steps hurting Indian interests in Afghanistan.

On a different note. Every superpower and influential nation in the world today is a major arms exporter and unfortunately, India has remained largest importer for ridiculously long time. So if the largest market suddenly changes its status. There are a lot of dollars to lose something which these nations won't digest easily. They will pursue repercussions. Which may range form Geo-Political loses to the toppling of government in power by conspiring against it with is opponents. Russia is already playing Ex-Girlfriend. For these reasons why GOI is pushing Make In India along with piecemeal purchases from outside.

 

[Chinmoy]

First of all this is published in The Hindu, so I would add a pinch of salt on commercial part. But anyhow, we would also have to see where these would be build. GSL right now don't have facility to accomodate or build something like this. As per the report which @SELVAM quoted at the very first time, it is investing 4000 crores or we could say 6 billion dollars to upgrade itself.
Now if we go on a 2+2 model, GSL do need along with ToT the expertise and skill to carry out the construction. Be it a simple marriage of hull and engine, it can't be carried out without expertise. So the expertise cost would also be added along with the purchase cost.
Now lets have a look at the Navy Recognition link.

It was assumed that the "Admirals" would be sold to the Indian Navy because of the inability to complete them.

Look at the underlined word used.

Expert Alexander Mozgovoy told Izvestia that the decision to complete the Project 11356 frigates was welcome. "Our Navy really needs them and we would have lost three good ships in case of selling them to India," said the expert. "These are general-purpose ships that can operate in the Mediterranean, in the central Atlantic and in the north. We are in desperate need of such ships today as all the large Soviet-era ships are badly worn and their service life is nearing the end. In fact, there is no alternative to the Project 11356 frigates."

http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...ast-three-project-11356-frigates-in-2018.html

Now again look at the underlined part. Its important to read in between lines for any such deals. But if such a deal has been signed, then its good for GSL in general.

 

[aditya g]

I am not seeing any concrete information that the still in construction frigates will be sold to India.

 

[captscooby81]

So you are saying there is scam by govt is this deal ???

All our shipyard s are busy till 2020 and beyond.. hope the navy would have done their assessment before asking the govt to sign on the dotted line for such a huge amount. When we are making our own ships with almost similar technology . . Even if we make the payment and we are getting 1st ship by 2020 it's a very rapid time frame . We still have long time before seeing P-17A first ship to go on sea trail . .

Giving 1 billion usd to 4000 ton frigates is just. Hope someone raise the issue in parliament

 

[Kshithij]

They've not been built as yet! Two frigates will be built in Russia and sent to India, whereas another two will be built at the Goa Shipyard with assistance on technology transfer.

This simultaneous ship construction is to save time. We need to increase our fleet as the difference in force levels with China is increasing by the day.

Don't speak of time. There is no time to be saved at the expense of 4 billion dollars. It is not that we are under war right now. We can expand our own shipyard and manufacture them with Indian labour at a fraction of the cost within the same timeline Russia is offering us. India has huge population and recruiting isn't a problem. If India was a small country, I would agree with time theory but when Indians are needing jobs and there is huge coastline, 10 times Russian population that technically, India should be able to make 10 ships for every 1 russia makes.

Ok, Accident on INS chakra and soon this happened.....

Yes, there is no doubt that we're getting costly frigates. Unfortunately, this will continue till we get into UNSC and we build our own Defense Industry.

This deal was signed at Goa during BRICS 2016 and it was to entice Russia into passing India specific resolution (Of course, that did not happen). So it was basically a price to be paid for geopolitical gains. Nothing to do with Make in India.

It is another thing that even today GOI is pursuing this project which may or may not be a compensation for something unknown which may or may not be for stopping Russia from taking steps hurting Indian interests in Afghanistan.

On a different note. Every superpower and influential nation in the world today is a major arms exporter and unfortunately, India has remained largest importer for ridiculously long time. So if the largest market suddenly changes its status. There are a lot of dollars to lose something which these nations won't digest easily. They will pursue repercussions. Which may range form Geo-Political loses to the toppling of government in power by conspiring against it with is opponents. Russia is already playing Ex-Girlfriend. For these reasons why GOI is pushing Make In India along with piecemeal purchases from outside.

And what exactly can Russia or anyone else do to India without harming themselves? UNSC is horseshit. India has such large population and all the technologies in middle stages or advanced that it will take only till 2030 for India to get all the technology needed fully. Once technology is obtained, mass production is just a matter of time. With a population of India and harnessing of energy from abundant coal, even if Oil supply is cut off or diminished, India can replace it by coal liquefaction and continue militarisation.

Don't ever speak of help needed by India but of mutual cooperation only

 

[WolfPack86]

It is better to procure 4 Amur class submarine instead of buying Talwar class frigate from Russia.

 

[SELVAM]

It is better to procure 4 Amur class submarine instead of buying Talwar class frigate from Russia.

They will not agree. Three ships r already in various stages of construction.These ships r meant for Russian navy. fund shortage and ukraine's refusal to supply gas turbine engine to Russia resulted in halting of this project. They want india to buy these ships.

Also nothing wrong in india buying these ship. BUT price is too much. We r a poor country with large no of poor people. We shouldn't waste money like this

 

[WolfPack86]

They will not agree. Three ships r already in various stages of construction.These ships r meant for Russian navy. fund shortage and ukraine's refusal to supply gas turbine engine to Russia resulted in halting of this project. They want india to buy these ships.

Also nothing wrong in india buying these ship. BUT price is too much. We r a poor country with large no of poor people. We shouldn't waste money like this

Yes 4 billion dollars for four ships is too much. Instead of buying Talwar class we could have procure 4 Amur class submarine. Indian Navy is in shortage of submarines. We barely have 14 submarines. Procurment of submarines is top priority.

 

[SELVAM]

Yes 4 billion dollars for four ships is too much. Instead of buying Talwar class we could have procure 4 Amur class submarine. Indian Navy is in shortage of submarines. We barely have 14 submarines. Procurment of submarines is top priority.

Most propably russians will tie up this sale with our other purchases?

 

[Armand2REP]

Yes 4 billion dollars for four ships is too much. Instead of buying Talwar class we could have procure 4 Amur class submarine. Indian Navy is in shortage of submarines. We barely have 14 submarines. Procurment of submarines is top priority.

You can buy a FREMM and a Gowind 2500 for the price of one of those.

 

[laughingbuddha]

The high cost includes payment for other deals.

 

[Chinmoy]

They will not agree. Three ships r already in various stages of construction.These ships r meant for Russian navy. fund shortage and ukraine's refusal to supply gas turbine engine to Russia resulted in halting of this project. They want india to buy these ships.

Also nothing wrong in india buying these ship. BUT price is too much. We r a poor country with large no of poor people. We shouldn't waste money like this

Where is the source which said that the three unfinished frigates is what India would be getting?

 

[Willy2]

Is't it the same old news ? copy of Talwar given to India as UKR not going to give engine to Russian ship ?
I think MSM circulating old news in same way as PAKFA deal on the verge of completion for 5 years....

 

[SELVAM]

Where is the source which said that the three unfinished frigates is what India would be getting?

Read the above posts firsts. I posted enough sources in above posts

 

[Chinmoy]

Read the above posts firsts. I posted enough sources in above posts

I think you have not read my post in the last page. I've quoted the link which you have provide. Anyway let me requote that here again.

It was assumed that the "Admirals" would be sold to the Indian Navy because of the inability to complete them.

Now what is the use of assumption here?

Expert Alexander Mozgovoy told Izvestia that the decision to complete the Project 11356 frigates was welcome. "Our Navy really needs them and we would have lost three good ships in case of selling them to India," said the expert.

Now if India is getting the half completed frigates, then what thus this part means?

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2017/june-2017-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/5253-russia-to-resume-the-construction-of-the-last-three-project-11356-frigates-in-2018.html

rbth has very conveniently omitted these things from their report.

 

[SELVAM]

The basic structures of the two frigates are already ready at Yantar shipyard in Russia and will be finished once the contract is finalised.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...-Russia-stumbles-on-costs/article17110051.ece

Read this last year article, these ships r now lying in russian shipyards in partially built stage

 

[Chinmoy]

The basic structures of the two frigates are already ready at Yantar shipyard in Russia and will be finished once the contract is finalised.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...-Russia-stumbles-on-costs/article17110051.ece

Read this last year article, these ships r now lying in russian shipyards in partially built stage

This report is of January 2017 whereas the report in navy recognition is from June 2017.

 

[Kshithij]

The basic structures of the two frigates are already ready at Yantar shipyard in Russia and will be finished once the contract is finalised.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...-Russia-stumbles-on-costs/article17110051.ece

Read this last year article, these ships r now lying in russian shipyards in partially built stage

How are you sure that it is not like the FGFA presstitution? repeating the same thing over and over again.. Let us wait and watch.

 

[SELVAM]

This report is of January 2017 whereas the report in navy recognition is from June 2017.

simple google search will prove this whole project is all about Russia insisting india to buy their unfinished frigates.