Modernization of MiG29 vs Mirage2000

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Mariner HK, Apr 2, 2013.

  1. Mariner HK

    Mariner HK Tihar Jail Banned

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    [​IMG]

    I am not going to get into the details. I am sure all the details are in the forum. What i am interested is in the price.

    It costs some $900mil to upgrade 65 odd MiG29's to UPG standard, where they open up the airframe and make extensive changes, make changes to engine, cockpit, radar and everything. Infact they are replacing most of them with new upgraded systems.

    on the other hand we have 50 odd Mirage 2000 and to upgrade it to Mirage 2k5 we are spending almost $2.5billon.mica's are a separate deal, we are buying 500 mica's for $1.2billion.Considering it also going through the same midlife upgrade process. I will get new upgraded system like the MiG29 and will have a extended shelf life as well.

    Why is upgrading lesser number of AC's cost more? when the same happens at a better price elsewhere?

    I know many might have even asked this before and got answers for this in a crude way, but i would really like to know what is the deal behind these updates and what difference does Western weapon manufacturing brings to the table to make it much costlier than the east.

    This thread will act as a pivot to understand what the west and east brings to the table in terms of offense and defense and why are the rated differently and based on what? This is a thing that has been ill defined throughout the past, were they just deem something good or bad based on a single press release from somewhere, how do we really gauge them equally and see which is really capable and what are their capabilities.
     
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  3. Mariner HK

    Mariner HK Tihar Jail Banned

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    1G: Indira Gandhi
    2G: Rajiv Gandhi
    3G: Sonia Gandhi masked as MMS
    4G: Rahul Gandhi
    Generations of scams so anything is possible... Wonder why Mirage Upgrade cost more
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
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  4. drkrn

    drkrn Senior Member Senior Member

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    see cost of works in russia are always cheaper than france,second mig 29 is still in production line while mirage is not,third most important feature bribes.french laws don't punish for bribers offered out of its country by its firms,so secure,no problems like the one faced by augusta deal
     
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  5. DivineHeretic

    DivineHeretic Senior Member Senior Member

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    Everything you said is true. But even then there is more than meets the eye on the Mirage deal.

    It has been well known for atleast two decades that the mirage forms the backbone of the airforce's nuclear delivery platform. This despite the addition of the SU30 mki and the Jaguar. The AF and indeed the SFC still judge the mirage as a better and more reliable platform for this role, mostly because the SU-30, despite being superior in all parameters, are regarded as too high profile for the role, and the Jags have questionable survivability for deep strikes.

    To top it off, the French were rather open in stating its nuclear capabilities during the sale discussions. What the upgrade may cover in secret is further refinement for this role, until something more stealthy and more survivable makes its way into the IAF. And then there is also the spectre of the SFCs request for 40 AC for Nuclear delivery role. The fact that such noises have absolutely dissapeared makes me inclined to believe that SFC have found what they want. The other possibility that the SFC have abandoned this need is unlikely, as no govt. will like to deny the SFC its needed capability. The mirage may be handed over to the SFC, albeit in secret, and, maintained by the IAF in normal circumstances.
     
  6. Mariner HK

    Mariner HK Tihar Jail Banned

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    So r u saying Mirage 2k will be stealth than Mirage2k 5 ? Please tell me more if possible
     
  7. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Mirage-2000 production line has been closed for quite sometime now. To operate a Mirage-2000 costs two or three times more than a MKI.

    Mig-29UPG is just one of the many aircraft being upgraded. The Mig-29K variant is still in production with nearly 80 orders to date and also the Russians themselves are upgrading many of their Mig-29 to SMT standards, 150 aircraft are to be upgraded. That's why it is far cheaper.
     
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  8. Mariner HK

    Mariner HK Tihar Jail Banned

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    Wat about ability MIG29UPGRADE vs Mirage 2000 Upgrade ? Does stealth added with these two aircraft ?
     
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  9. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    French deal was based on Political and diplomatic reason, It has nothing to do with economics or military..

    What you should be observing is the Proposed Israeli upgrade compare to French one, Lots of fact will be open there..
     
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  10. DivineHeretic

    DivineHeretic Senior Member Senior Member

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    I didn't say anything about stealth. The nuclear payload is one of the open secrets of the mirage fleet. This may be the reason why the IAF opted for such a costly upgrade.
     
  11. Snuggy321

    Snuggy321 Regular Member

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    No. :thumb:
     
  12. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    The Israelis have nothing to do with the upgrade. Upgrade is always given to OEM according to the contracts we draw up. The same with Bison, the same with Mig-29 and the same with MKI.
     
  13. halloweene

    halloweene Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    False, sorry
     
  14. halloweene

    halloweene Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    No, but Spectra like AW suite.
     

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