Modernisation for Indian 105mm Light Field Guns.

[bose]

Is it a good idea for IA to standardize and use of only 105 MM & 155 MM Artillery guns of 45/52 cal wheeled, tracked and towed only very similar to what the NATO countries are doing at present?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Yes, there way of operating arty units are better..

Is it a good idea for IA to standardize and use of only 105 MM & 155 MM Artillery guns of 45/52 cal wheeled, tracked and towed only very similar to what the NATO countries are doing at present?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Displayed at 2012 expo, SM group a Indian Pvt company provides for 105mm ..

India develops propellants for Bofors | idrw.org


Can we use the new propellant mentioned in the article above for 105 mm guns?

 

[arnabmit]

IFG used two diff charges which gave it a velocity of 590m/s and 710m/s. The new barrells and new charge can increase it further which will help it to either increase the range or allow it to be used as an howitzer with present range. A lot is happening. If you guys will recall my posts regarding the ICL-20 produced by Pune DRDO, I had stated that soon we will have far better ranges for our guns and far more destructive power for our shells. ICL-20 is now being converted into a propellent also which needs stronger breech blocks with higher chamber pressures for which we need better metalurgy to withstand those pressures.

But sir, last I heard, syntheses process of ICL-20 is so costly that it is not viable for mass production. Have we made any progress on this front to bring the syntheses process cheaper?

 

[Decklander]

But sir, last I heard, syntheses process of ICL-20 is so costly that it is not viable for mass production. Have we made any progress on this front to bring the syntheses process cheaper?

Yes it is very expansive but if used to boost the propellents, the amount needed reduces considerably.

 

[The Last Stand]

Displayed at 2012 expo, SM group a Indian Pvt company provides for 105mm ..

No, SM Group just manufactures the Cartridge cases. Propellant is supposed to be of DRDO design.

I don't know who assembles the rounds.

http://www.smgroupindia.com/

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Gud find, As i said 'provides' , DRDO's HEMRL design and licensed SM group ..

Rounds are made by OFB design by ARDE ..

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Design is same for 105mm but not dimensions..

No, SM Group just manufactures the Cartridge cases. Propellant is supposed to be of DRDO design.

I don't know who assembles the rounds. SM Group: Ammunition, Protection solutions, Body armour, Application and military software, Biodegradable packaging

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Related here >>

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India's chief of army staff visits UK

4 star Indian Army's chief of the army staff, General Vijay Kumar Singh, has visited Herrick 16 FTX on Salisbury Plain. General Singh was flown in by Puma to watch 'B' Battery, 1 RHA fire the 105mm Light Gun using the LINAPS Artillery Pointing System, which can be used anywhere in the world to lay the gun without external references.

Source : ADS Advance - India's chief of army staff visits UK

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I think Ex-Gen VK Singh, Had plans for mordanisation of 105mm Guns, Same Idea which i am speaking here, He visited the base and system on purpose, If he had few more time, We could have seen this plan in practice..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

105 mm Light Gun with LINAPS

Early in 1999, following an international competition, the UK MoD selected the now Selex Sensors and Airborne Systems Laser Inertial Pointing System (LINAPS).

The contract, valued at over GBP10 million, was for the supply of 137 APS, or Laser Inertial Automatic Pointing Systems (LINAPS) as it is called by the company, for installation on the BAE Systems Land Systems 105 mm L118 Light Guns used by the Royal Artillery.

First production LINAPS were delivered late in 1999 and deliveries ran to the year 2002. The contract also covers logistic support for an inertial period of five years.

The LINAPS consists of the proven FIN3110L integrated Inertial/Global Positioning System (GPS), a large screen Layers Display and Control Unit (LDCU), a wheel hub mounted odometer and a Power Management System (PMS). In addition there is a Navigation Display Unit (NDU) for use in the cab of the Pinzgauer Turbo D 4 × 4 gun-towing vehicle.

The mounting of the INS/GPS directly above the barrel permits the direct measurement of all elevation and azimuth and hence the rapid and accurate pointing of the gun onto the target. In addition, LINAPS provides the precise location of the 105 mm gun platform with a route navigation capability.

It provides the crew with orientation and location data without the requirement for much of the existing sighting and survey equipment and its associated training.

The installation of the APS on the BAE Systems Land Systems 105 mm Light Gun L118 has made for a much-reduced into-action time as well as greater accuracy. LINAPS is also installed on the Royal Thai Army 105 mm L119 Light Guns and on the Canadian 155 mm M777.

 

[ninja85]

Displayed at 2012 expo, SM group a Indian Pvt company provides for 105mm ..

when these things actually gonna come out of the showcases of defense expo's.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Improved shells developed for 105 Indian Field Guns

OFB also hopes to get its improved shells developed for 105 Indian Field Guns (IFGs)-the basic artillery guns used by the army. The new shells developed by OFB give IFGs an additional 3 km range taking it to 20.5 kms. After recent user trials, the range table for the gun is being prepared. This means it has to be tested whether the gun can fire up to the same range from different angles.

Source : http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ter-trials-a-success/articleshow/32271464.cms

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Shared by @ladder

 

[W.G.Ewald]

[LINAPS] provides the crew with orientation and location data without the requirement for much of the existing sighting and survey equipment and its associated training.

Forward observers are still needed?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Special BSF Documentary

From 6mins- BSF`s 105mm can shoot to 24kms, Means their were changes in barrel and shell as discussed in this thread ..

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Present Modernization Prospects :

2. Improved Extended-Range & Precision Ammunition for 105mm Guns:

A > 105mm Bleed Base Round
B > 105mm Rocket Assisted Round
C > 105mm Precision Round

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A > Extended-Range 105mm Bleed Base Projectile

A Sort Note on Bleed base Working >>

Bleed base Shell will increase normal range by 30% that means addition of 5 to 10 kms to Normal Range of IFG 105mm >>

17km Normal Range + 5km-10km bleed base = 22km - 27km

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B > Extended-Range 105mm Rocket assisted Projectile

Short Note On Rocket Assisted Projectile >>



Interesting Development : M913 ESIP Projectile, 105MM, HERA >>



Source : M913 ESIP Projectile, 105MM, HERA

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In Case Of 105mm IFG the range would increase by 5kms..

17km Normal Range + 5km bleed base = 22km

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C > 105mm Precision Round :

a .

Precision Guidance Kit (PGK), formerly known as Course Correcting Fuze (CCF), is a program that will enhance the accuracy at mid to max ranges of all 155-mm and 105-mm artillery projectiles. The Precision Guidance Kit (PGK) is a low cost fuze sized module that is used in lieu of a standard fuze on existing stockpile artillery projectiles to reduce ballistic delivery errors, improving artillery terminal effectiveness. The amount of improvement is dependent on the magnitude of the uncorrected errors and the error reduction capability of the PGK approach. PGK is a fuze-sized "module" that will have GPS to provide the location of the round and time during its flight while an inertial navigation system (INS) will determine the trajectory and continuously correct the round for increased accuracy.

PGK rounds fired at the mid-to-max ranges will be as accurate at 30 kilometers as rounds without PGK are when fired at five and 10 kilometers. CEP with PGK is no longer a function of range. In terms of the example M549A1, if it had PGK, its 260-meter CEP at 30 kilometers would shrink to 50 meters. In essence, PGK will shrink the miss distance, improve accuracy and result in better overall effectiveness and efficiency. It will ensure rounds impact on a target within their lethal radius, making conventional cannon artillery accurate at all ranges. The PGK program has three increments. The two follow-on increments will provide additional capabilities.

Increment 3 adds the 105-mm family of platforms, munitions and propellants into the previous design. The reason for delaying the 105-mm variant is to synchronize it with the planned M119A2 howitzer digitization program. A long-range goal for Increment 3 is to leverage the 155-mm PGK technologies for PGK use with 105-mm projectiles. The initial version of PGK may be robust enough to meet the 105-mm howitzer requirements, but only time and testing will determine its compatibility. The requirement for the third increment is for less than 30 meters (threshold) and 10 meters (objective) CEP for all 155-mm and 105-mm projectiles.

Source : XM1156 Precision Guidance Kit (PGK)

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b.

The capability is achieved by integrating GPS guidance and laser targeting. Course correction and terminal control will be performed by employing four steerable canard fins.

The companies plan to complete the development by 2009. At the exhibition IMI unveiled the follow-on product, currently at an early development phase - a 105mm Guided Artillery Munition (GAM). This GPS guided projectile will complement IMI growing line of 105mm artillery ammunition. It will have a range of 23 km and an accuracy level of 10 meters.

>105mm Artillery Munition with GPS guidance
>Effective range: 23 Km
>Accuracy: 10m CEP
>Includes the Pure Heart (GPS/IMU and FCC) for guidance, navigation and flight control, a canard servo and control mechanism.

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In Indian context, This can be use as well, ATK / GAM, GPS kit can be useful for 105mm Indian Artillery Shells..

I had read the news that Honeywell company has provided TATA with some technology which shall help TATAs to increase the accuracy of gun round to a single digit.

Moreover I listen to baba kalyani interview in which he told that they produced 105 gun within 9 moths. I think baba kalyani group also produces 105 MM gun.

As people say, its limitation is that it is not very effective against bunker and construction. We may use thermometric round we developed for Arjun for 105 mm gun. It will not have oxidizer and hence almost two to three time devastation power compared to normal HE round. We must use the combo of technology to keep these beautiful weapon nettle worthy and effective.

 

[charlie]

Special BSF Documentary

From 6mins- BSF`s 105mm can shoot to 24kms, Means their were changes in barrel and shell as discussed in this thread ..

Thanks for posting, I was searching internet few days back for this.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

105mm in Indian condition is useful in mountain area as its more effective than 120 / 81mm motars and able to deploy than a bulky 155mm ( Even M777 ), The explosive amount is more than enough for destruction required against troops and infrastructure ( Not against heavy bunkers with 2.5 meters thick concrete - steel reinforced roof )

They are light and used by Paratroopers as well, This is old video of US doing the same with its airborne.

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Published on Mar 30, 2015
U.S. Airborne elements of the 25th Infantry Division conduct a heavy-drop of paratroopers and 105mm howitzers followed by a live-fire exercise. The operation was part of Exercise Spartan Valkyrie at Malemute Drop Zone on Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson in Alaska. Filmed on March 20, 2015. Units - Spartan Steel Battalion, 377th Field Artillery, 4th Infantry Brigade Combat Team

As people say, its limitation is that it is not very effective against bunker and construction.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

105mm in Indian condition is useful in mountain area as its more effective than 120 / 81mm motars and able to deploy than a bulky 155mm ( Even M777 ), The explosive amount is more than enough for destruction required against troops and infrastructure ( Not against heavy bunkers with 2.5 meters thick concrete - steel reinforced roof )

They are light and used by Paratroopers as well, This is old video of US doing the same with its airborne.

================
================


Published on Mar 30, 2015
U.S. Airborne elements of the 25th Infantry Division conduct a heavy-drop of paratroopers and 105mm howitzers followed by a live-fire exercise. The operation was part of Exercise Spartan Valkyrie at Malemute Drop Zone on Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson in Alaska. Filmed on March 20, 2015. Units - Spartan Steel Battalion, 377th Field Artillery, 4th Infantry Brigade Combat Team

What about using the thermobaric round to overcome the less explosive effect of 105 mm round.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

One of the important quality of 105mm IFG/LFG is that its very rugged and designed to be broken down and air dropped. SO the air drop can be carried out by ALH also.

Requirement of M777 is another fake urgency created by Army Jarnails as it is difficult to break down and be airdropped due to lot of delicate parts. Hence its needs a heavy Chinook.

We have already developed advanced modular charges and HEER shells (21km) range for 105mm Howitzer which can go upto 25km at high altitudes. Rest of heavy/long range work can be done by Pinaka and Prahaar.

 

[tharun]

Looks like there are two types of shells one is like 5.56mm projectile goes away and canister remains.Range of this is about 17-20km

The other round is just like 155mm with projectile and charges are apart...

@Kunal Biswas May i know the difference between these rounds? and do these rounds are for same gun? or different?

 

[tharun]

105mm in Indian condition is useful in mountain area as its more effective than 120 / 81mm motars and able to deploy than a bulky 155mm ( Even M777 ), The explosive amount is more than enough for destruction required against troops and infrastructure ( Not against heavy bunkers with 2.5 meters thick concrete - steel reinforced roof )

Then how's this heavy bunkers are destroyed......................................................