MMRCA news and discussions.

Whats your Choice for the MMRCA Contest?

  • Gripen

    Votes: 5 4.9%
  • F16 IN

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • F18 SH

    Votes: 8 7.8%
  • Mig 35

    Votes: 24 23.3%
  • Dassault Rafale

    Votes: 45 43.7%
  • Eurofighter Typhoon

    Votes: 20 19.4%

  • Total voters
    103

K Factor

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Mayavi EW will outperform the Spectra hence the LCA mk-2 is bound to be better than the Rafale in SEAD missions.
Man, where do get these kinds of stuff from !!! Do you think and write with your mind or your a**?

Request to mods: Is there an official fanboi designation on the forum, cos I feel this guy seriously deserves it with his attitude towards SH. :rofl:
 

Daredevil

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Gripen - The Swedish Underdog

Gripen - The Swedish Underdog

Saab's tagline for the Gripen India campaign ("The Independent Choice") tells you a great deal about the depth of recognition by the company that the competition will most definitely be decided on political lines. Politically, the Gripen is squarely the odds-on underdog in the competition. The fact that it is an "independent choice" hasn't impressed an establishment that refuses to budge from the perception that the purchase of 126 fighters is as much a definitive politico-strategic investment as it is the topping up of depleting squadron strength of the IAF. This is not unreasonable, and even IAF pilots believe that the MMRCA contract is a chance to change a lot of things. Some view the Gripen's marketing as defensive, almost yielding too much to the overwhelming perception that India will buy American. But the aircraft itself has a great deal going for it.

STRENGTHS

Apart from the fact that is undoubtedly an excellent airplane, ironically, the Gripen's biggest play is the fact that it is a relatively independent choice. Within the government, many believe the Gripen is a safe bet at a good price, and one that (like the F-16), fits in with what the IAF had originally asked for. There also exists a belief within the government that the people at Saab have pioneered and fast-tracked the Demo NG programme principally for the MMRCA programme, and taken this to mean a level of commitment. The IAF has also received and been impressed by independent testimonials from the air forces of Hungary and Czech Republic about turnaround and ownership costs of the Gripen C/D. The IAF is also quite impressed with the Gripen's permutation configuration of systems, sensors and avionics, not to mention a quantum leap in the computer/bus (including Link 16), GCAS, satellite comms, payload capacity and EWS between the Gripen C/D and the Gripen NG. The IAF also likes the very nifty Cobra helmet mounted display system. The Gripen's pitch that it can be turned around on the ground (engine, systems) the fastest among all contenders makes it perfect for the IAF. The Gripen team has also squarely pitched the airplane as the a perfect complement to the "big-hitter" Su-30MKIs, implying that India's growing Flanker fleet could be inadvertently rendered superfluous if the heavy contenders in the MMRCA -- the F/A-18, the Typhoon or the Rafale -- were chosen for induction.

WEAKNESSES

Unfortunately, the Gripen's weaknesses are many. The biggest, I've outlined in the intro. The fact that is provides no strategic fruits is a big downer. The fact that Sweden promises not to interfere, but rather provide full autonomy to the Gripen India programme is simply too little in the Indian context. In fact, there are senior officers in the IAF who believe that Saab flatters itself in the belief that Sweden is powerful enough to fiddle with the strategic/military autonomy of a country like India, especially since the MMRCA provides for a total transfer of technology that very nearly precludes the possibility of any meaningful interference post-contract. Another weakness is the aircraft's country of origin itself. Provided that the Saab proves to be the best aircraft in the field evaluation tests (FETs) -- which it well might -- will any Indian government, let alone the Congress -- have the guts to buy Swedish ever again? If anyone has any doubts about the Bofors ghost, cast a glance at the farcical joke being played in the Indian Army's efforts to purchase 400 towed 155-mm artillery guns. It's been on since 2003, with an unprecedented four trial rounds. The final results laid out that the SWS Bofors gun was on top throughout. At the last moment, then Army chief General JJ Singh gave in to a firm political warning and called for a re-tender of the entire competition. It probably speaks volumes that he's now the politically-appointed Governor of Arunachal Pradesh. A stunned Bofors still hasn't recovered from the shock. Saab, which close links with the Bofors company, knows just what a liability being from Sweden is forever more in India. Worse, there's no sidestepping it. Worse still, even the IAF recognises that. The tragedy is, of course, that the Gripen has absolutely nothing to do with Bofors.
 
J

John

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Man, where do get these kinds of stuff from !!! Do you think and write with your mind or your a**?

Request to mods: Is there an official fanboi designation on the forum, cos I feel this guy seriously deserves it with his attitude towards SH. :rofl:

well the Mayavi is going on board the Israeli F-35, it is bound to be more advanced than the Spectra EW any given day, i don't have to think when i post something like this. its logic. Rafale is highly over-rated, The EF T-3 or even the Gripen NG are way better options than the Rafale. besides Northrop is requesting US Govt clearance to offer new SABR AESA for the EF and Gripen, off course it goes on board the F-16 as well.
 

Soham

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Note: to the mods and shom lets keep this thread to just discussions iam planning to start a seprate thread to act as a resource pool for the M-MRCA competation what do you guys think ?
Personally I'd rather you post the resources in this thread because the scope of discussions is limited. We have had indepth discussions many times over, and right now, we are just carrying out anti-fanboyism operations. :D So please post all that you want in this thread itself so that it becomes a tad bit more interesting.
 

p2prada

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regarding ban on sale of jammers, any proof??
Find out on your own.

besides who said the USAF will buy the F-15 SE, i said the F-15SE is for existing F-15 operators like Saudi, Korea, Japan etc, i can pay for english comprehension lessons for u.
Give the Japanese, SK, Saudi and Australia the option of F-22 and F-15SE. I wonder what they will pick. The Boeing fighters are no more.

All that C*** about composites is useless coz the F-22 which is the only true stealth fighter deployed hardly has any composites. Composites are used very little on the F-22, most of its airframe is high strength titanium. Composites are indeed good but their sole purpose is to reduce weight,
The F-22 design principles are completely different from the design principles of the other existing fighters. It's primary reason for stealth is the internal weapons bay. Other than that, F-22 uses 25% of its surface area and 26% of its weight in composites.

Mayavi EW will outperform the Spectra hence the LCA mk-2 is bound to be better than the Rafale in SEAD missions.
What's the point you are trying to make by bringing in the LCA into it now. It doesnot have the range or the payload to carry out SEAD compared to any MRCA. LCA Mk2 is a paper plane. And so is the Mayawi suite. SPECTRA already exists.

Rafale can't deploy good Anti radar missiles like the SH can. SH can deploy ALARM missiles, AAGRM both capable of destroying shut down radars while the Rafale fires the martel and HARM both not capable of shooting down shut down radars. Again SH proves better.
It proves nothing.
And please, I don't need you to tell me if its good or not. Any ARM with Inertial navigation can bring down a shut down radar, as long as the radar is is stationary. Anyways, ALARM is a British ARM.

Snecma lost the deal to develop the Kaveri engine anyways so another shot in the arm for the Rafale.
How's that even related to MRCA. Rafale will us the M-88-2 or M-88-3.

so its either the GE 414 or the EJ2000 for the LCA and for commonalities sakes the IAF will go for the SH or EF for the MRCA. simple.
Its not going to be as simple as that. The IAF does not have the privilege to go for commonalities especially when F-414 and EJ-200 will be temporary until Kaveri is completely ready by the next decade.

We talk about going to war with China as if that wil ever happen, even if it happens it will primarily be fought with ballistic missiles because none of our fighters current or future can actually survive in Chinese airspace no matter how stealthy they are, indeed they could have thousands of s-300s and going into in-land china is suicide. Any war between India and China is a war to the end as well, which we will remain hostile but will never actually fight the war. Besides if China indeed picks on India we'll have US support.
More astounding stupidity.

Our Harpys are better since China's Harpys weren't allowed to be upgraded due to pressure from US on Israel, we placed our order for upgraded versions after this fiasco.
Does not take away the fact that even the Chinese Harpy can still take out the radars.

Here is a document proving your full of crap p2p, the ALQ-99 is indeed cleared for export and that it is indeed better than many ground and sea based jammers and those were the older ones. read 3 paras before 'variants and upgrades' and 'world wide distribution' in the link below. The jammer has gotten a lot better since the document has been written. knowing that Boeing is currently wiring some of those SHs as Grolwers, I have all the reason to believe the full growler has been cleared for export to the Aussies. hope you dont need added english lessons.
Do I need English lessons to point out that the link you provided was for the EA-6B Prowler and not the EA-18G Growler. It was cleared for sale to all NATO members, Japan and SK. So, how many are in service with these countries. So, when DOD meant Prowlers, they probably meant a fat stick to NATO. Growler is not cleared for export.

The version cleared for export is the Growler lite version. There is no Growl in that Growler. It's a flying antenna, that's all.
 
J

John

Guest
yes indeed the link proves the jammer is cleared for export and Aussies will get the Growler. yes ALARM is a British missile but Rafale doesn't fire it. Mayavi will be ready by 2010 ready to go board the F-35 and our LCA. ALARM uses passive radar seekers and not INS and has loiter ability.

ATK - Successful AARGM firing (ATK)

speaking of moving targets the SH can deploy better weapons also capable of hitting moving targets SDB, LJDAM, SLAM, SLAM-ER, JSOW. Rafale has none of these weapons has the lowest amount of weapons flexibility compared to the Gripen NG, F-16IN, EF and F-18IN. Even with Growler lite using a couple of new AL-99Q jammers the SH will prtty much make the Rafale a sitting duck. The older jammer's jam radius is over 120km, the newer one is bound to be even more effective and its jam radius is higher than our very own ground based Samyukta.

The most obvious area where this lack of vision is displayed is in the Rafale's overall layout and its notable lack of signature reduction design features. The Rafale exhibits numerous features that would simply never be incorporated into any design intended to have a reduced RCS, including its prominent intakes, a huge vertical stabilizer, canards, a non-retractable refueling probe, and numerous other probes, protrusions, and other serious RCS offenders. What does this mean? Late in the Rafale's design process its engineers realized that they had failed to anticipate the key role RCS reduction would play in future designs and scambled to find ways to reduce the Rafale's RCS. With minimal experience with RCS reduction and an airframe that was already too far along in its design to be fixed, the end result was of course disappointing. Shaping is the single most important consideration in RCS reduction and the Rafale has too many major flaws to ever be considered stealthy. RAM coatings and last minute saw-tooth edge features are at best minimally effective on an aircraft that is otherwise designed all wrong from the start. Hence i always question the claim of it being as stealthy as many claim it to be. Even the SH has a lot cleaner forward stealth aspect.

Finally, one of the most critcal flaws in the Rafale's design is its widely misunderstood "Spectra" self protection jammer and RWR suite. As was done with the F-16 and Super Hornet, the Rafale design team sought to incorporate an internal self protection jammer into the Rafale to improve its survivability against radar guided threats. The major failure of Spectra was that its development cycle was far far too long and France's semiconductor and computer industry was simply incapable of providing the necessary components to create a truly cutting edge system. By the time it went from the drawing board to production, a period of over 10 years, it was barely able to match systems being offered by Israel and the United States on other 4th generation fighters. The Spectra self protection jammer simply lacks the processing power, flexibility, and diverse threat response range available on aircraft like the Super Hornet, F-16 block 60, or modern Israeli systems.

Instead, what Spectra offers are relatively simplistic signals generated by its prominent but inflexible and simplistic transmitters.(Based on narrow-band, inefficient MMICs, a constraint imposed by the lack of a domestic supplier for more modern MMICs, the same issue that has plauged France's AESA program.) Spectra is perhaps the least crippling of the Rafale's flaws, because it could potentially be removed and replaced with a more modern system. Spectra tacks up a relatively large amount of space and power for what it offers, so a modern design could certainly do more with the same space and power supply.

A Flanker can detect the Rafale at over 200km . This is not what I call "discreet".
 

Dark Sorrow

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Can someone post some useful information about Mayavi EW Suite?
 

Singh

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Note: to the mods and shom lets keep this thread to just discussions iam planning to start a seprate thread to act as a resource pool for the M-MRCA competation what do you guys think ?
sounds great. go ahead.
 

p2prada

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yes indeed the link proves the jammer is cleared for export and Aussies will get the Growler. yes ALARM is a British missile but Rafale doesn't fire it. Mayavi will be ready by 2010 ready to go board the F-35 and our LCA. ALARM uses passive radar seekers and not INS and has loiter ability.
The day the Aussies get the real ALQ-99 and not a cheap rip off, then I will believe it. The Mayawi is does not use active arrays like the SPECTRA. The French have excellent capability in EW. In certain respects they have better systems than the Israelis.

speaking of moving targets the SH can deploy better weapons also capable of hitting moving targets SDB, LJDAM, SLAM, SLAM-ER, JSOW.
Is that the reason Malaysia stopped buying Super hornets and are phasing out their own hornets for the Su-30.

Rafale has none of these weapons has the lowest amount of weapons flexibility compared to the Gripen NG, F-16IN, EF and F-18IN.
Rafale does not require all those super weapons. Neither does the IAF. It becomes too expensive to use those weapons. IAF will use their old dumb bombs, cluster bombs and some cruise missiles. The LGBs are too expensive for the IAF.

Even with Growler lite using a couple of new AL-99Q jammers the SH will prtty much make the Rafale a sitting duck.
A Growler Lite with ALQ-99s is a full fledged Growler. It will only have an advantage in BVR and not in WVR. Still, you can buy 2 Rafales for the price of one Growler.

The older jammer's jam radius is over 120km, the newer one is bound to be even more effective and its jam radius is higher than our very own ground based Samyukta.
All ALQ-99 series jammers production have been stopped. The next jammer design is scheduled for 2025+.

The most obvious area where this lack of vision is displayed is in the Rafale's overall layout and its notable lack of signature reduction design features.
Point it out please. Because the Rafale's RCS is smaller than the SH and the Viper.

The Rafale exhibits numerous features that would simply never be incorporated into any design intended to have a reduced RCS, including its prominent intakes, a huge vertical stabilizer, canards, a non-retractable refueling probe, and numerous other probes, protrusions, and other serious RCS offenders. What does this mean?
Can you actually compare the SH with its number of "protrusions" compared to Rafale. LOL. So, can you post more of your PHd theories about the Rafale please.

Late in the Rafale's design process its engineers realized that they had failed to anticipate the key role RCS reduction would play in future designs and scambled to find ways to reduce the Rafale's RCS. With minimal experience with RCS reduction and an airframe that was already too far along in its design to be fixed, the end result was of course disappointing. Shaping is the single most important consideration in RCS reduction and the Rafale has too many major flaws to ever be considered stealthy. RAM coatings and last minute saw-tooth edge features are at best minimally effective on an aircraft that is otherwise designed all wrong from the start. Hence i always question the claim of it being as stealthy as many claim it to be. Even the SH has a lot cleaner forward stealth aspect.

Finally, one of the most critcal flaws in the Rafale's design is its widely misunderstood "Spectra" self protection jammer and RWR suite. As was done with the F-16 and Super Hornet, the Rafale design team sought to incorporate an internal self protection jammer into the Rafale to improve its survivability against radar guided threats. The major failure of Spectra was that its development cycle was far far too long and France's semiconductor and computer industry was simply incapable of providing the necessary components to create a truly cutting edge system. By the time it went from the drawing board to production, a period of over 10 years, it was barely able to match systems being offered by Israel and the United States on other 4th generation fighters. The Spectra self protection jammer simply lacks the processing power, flexibility, and diverse threat response range available on aircraft like the Super Hornet, F-16 block 60, or modern Israeli systems.

Instead, what Spectra offers are relatively simplistic signals generated by its prominent but inflexible and simplistic transmitters.(Based on narrow-band, inefficient MMICs, a constraint imposed by the lack of a domestic supplier for more modern MMICs, the same issue that has plauged France's AESA program.) Spectra is perhaps the least crippling of the Rafale's flaws, because it could potentially be removed and replaced with a more modern system. Spectra tacks up a relatively large amount of space and power for what it offers, so a modern design could certainly do more with the same space and power supply.

A Flanker can detect the Rafale at over 200km . This is not what I call "discreet".
Blah Blah. I did not even go through all this.
 

p2prada

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Can someone post some useful information about Mayavi EW Suite?
Nothing much is known about it except that DRDO will be co-developing it with Elisra from Israel.

DRDO will work on integration and software while Elisra will develop the whole package. It will be internal and will be equipped to carry ECM pods on the hardpoints too.

There is a possibility that the Mayawi will be used on all aircraft in the Indian and Israeli Airforce. This suite will first be integrated on the LCA in IAF and F-35 in the Israeli airforce.
 
J

John

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you cant go through it, the english is way too advanced for your B**** A**. ALQ-99 production has stopped yet Boeing delivers them on the Growler to the USN, wow what a miracle. Your still full of c***. The new jammers will be ready for production before 2018 and not 2025, by late 2010 the competition will begin as to which company will offer the next gen jammer.

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportu...44f43e6ac361e&tab=core&_cview=1&cck=1&au=&ck=

Rafale's rcs < SH 's rcs, no proof, no evidence and the Rafale has more visual 'protrusions' than the SH, compare a simple picture.

http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/rafale.jpg

http://www.ipmslondon.ca/old site/i...dercontent/sitebuilderpictures/fa18ffront.jpg

A picture of the SH carrying 12 A2A missiles. 4 more than the Rafale or any other aircraft in the competition can ever hope to carry.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/staff/fredt/fa-18-ef-superhornet9.jpeg

Spectra is good for now but the Mayavi will out perform it, firstly because the Issies are going for a better EW than the one developed by BAE for F-35. The BAE EW suite for F-35 on any given day outperforms the Spectra and since Mayavi is being developed to be better than the BAE, its is off course going to be better than the Spectra. As of yet no one knows if mayavi doesn't carry Active arrays.

Malaysia doesn't operate the SH, it only operates the F-18, your so full of c***. well speaking of weapons, the dumb bombs are home made so no problem, cluster bombs well we can use them, cruise missiles, well all the 'cruise missiles' the Rafale deploys are much much more expensive and lack the range or flexibility in comparison to US weapons. Indeed Mayavi can go on-board the SH as well.
 

p2prada

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SH lost in a competition against the Su-30MKM. The SH was being offered to replace the ol Hornets.


Sleep on it. You are a waste of time.
 

Dark Sorrow

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Rafale's rcs < SH 's rcs, no proof, no evidence and the Rafale has more visual 'protrusions' than the SH, compare a simple picture.
I don't understand how to react on this comment. It is totally baseless. How can u compare visual 'prostrusion' just by seeing a picture.
Radar detection of another plane is a game of probability. Having lower RCS just reduces the probability of being detected. It is not a full proof thing. It may happen that Rafale is detected 10000 th wave or may not be detected at all. On the other hand SH may be detected at 1st wave or 100000 th wave. Nothing is guranteed.
Spectra is good for now but the Mayavi will out perform it, firstly because the Issies are going for a better EW than the one developed by BAE for F-35. The BAE EW suite for F-35 on any given day outperforms the Spectra and since Mayavi is being developed to be better than the BAE, its is off course going to be better than the Spectra. As of yet no one knows if mayavi doesn't carry Active arrays.
You are right it is to early to tell.
Well speaking of weapons, the dumb bombs are home made so no problem, cluster bombs well we can use them, cruise missiles, well all the 'cruise missiles' the Rafale deploys are much much more expensive and lack the range or flexibility in comparison to US weapons.
A point taken but the question is do we need such fancy weapons. If u observe most of the US or infact any Western weapon is a marketing gimmick. Greatest example is our much hyped Meteor BVR missile.
Indeed Mayavi can go on-board the SH as well.
I seriously doubt this claim. Remember what had US done
with Israel for Israeli F-16s.
 

Soham

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If is an normal FA-18 Hornet and not a SH. If u ask y then the inlet for air is rectangular and not rounded.
Thats a Super Hornet all right.
The Hornets have round air inlets, while the E/F variants feature rectangular inlets.
 

p2prada

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the english is way too advanced for your B**** A**
There you go assuming things on your own.

Perhaps that's the way you think. So, I can only blame the way you were brought up then.
 

Daredevil

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The Future Fulcrum - MiG-35

The Future Fulcrum - MiG-35

LiveFist 6/30/09 6:30 PM Shiv Aroor

The way the Russians have been behaving over a multiplicity of ongoing defence contracts, it would seem as though they had no real interest in the MMRCA deal. The complexion in ties has changed so deeply since the 1980s, that there is a very palpable degree of acrimony in pretty much every dealing with the Russians these days. They'll release photos of smiling Indian MoD bureaucrafts with their bureau officials, but behind the scenes, things are almost always ugly. Yet, Russia has gargantuan leverage with India, based entirely of course on the huge number of deals yet to be completed. The MiG-35 comes across as not convincing enough, and Russia has still to prove that it is a reliable after-sales supplier. The one thing that the Russians have managed to pull off, is to convince the IAF that the MiG-35 isn't just any old Fulcrum. It's the Fulcrum.

STRENGTHS

One of the principal draws of the MiG-35 is commonality of inventory type. Alongside the Indian Navy's MiG-29Ks and the IAF's upgraded MiG-29s, a lot of senior MoD officials believe the MiG-35 would be a sensible choice that would translate into real savings in infrastructure and trainign costs. The IAF holds its MiG-29s in high esteem. In fact, the MiG-29M/M2 and subsequently the MiG-35, were developed based in part on informal but organised feedback from IAF pilots on what was required to make the MiG-29 a truly multipurpose airplane. The IAF says it is eagerly awaiting more information and a demonstration of the FGA-35 variant of the Phazotron Zhuk-AE AESA radar, yet untested. In demonstration flights, IAF pilots have also been given an expansive look at the MiG-35's highly unique optronic locator system (OLS), which one IAF pilot (who flew the MiG-35 at Aero India 2007) said surpassed similar gear on some of the other aircraft. The OLS consists of an infrared search and track sensor in on the nose of the aircraft, and a ground attack sensor fitted next to one of the intakes. The IAF has been given demonstrations of the RD-33MK turbofan, and is very pleased with what Klimov has managed to achieve with it, against some fairly difficult deadline and legacy odds, though the IAF and MoD were terribly irked and continue to be so with Russia's decision to sell jet engines to Pakistan for the JF programme -- something that could spell real trouble in the final decision (Remember, other countries sell to Pakistan as well, but India reserves great expectations from Russia, especially since Moscow has articulated these loyalties more than once). Rosoboronexport has managed to convince the IAF quite effectively that the MiG-35 is indeed a quantum technological leap from the legacy Fulcrum. Politically, India continues to have enormous strategic ties with Russia, notwithstanding a certain fraying in recent times. Russia has always supported India politically during operations, and has never dared to question India's use of its equipment. Finally, the Russians have the most well-entrenched and experienced lobby within the IAF and government. And extravagant acts of politico-strategic altruism are not unprecedented when it comes to Indo-Russian defence ties.

WEAKNESSES

The MiG-35 programme has a single prototype (the ubiquitous No. 154 -- I flew in this at MAKS 07) and that too one without a full complement of the avionics/sensor package listed in the offered configuration. As a result, the IAF is of the view that a lot of the MiG-35's capabilities, as articulated by its engineers and pilots, are still theoretical, even though they may be perfectly real once the full package is integrated and available. With field evaluations to begin anytime now, there's a sense of apprehension about just how MiG will demonstrate the aircraft without testbed platforms -- which obviously throws up the question, will the IAF consider technological parameters on testbeds rather than on a fully integrated fighter plane? The MiG-35 is rigged with the MIL-STD-1553 electrical data bus, which could prove a serious downer, considering that some rival contenders come with the MIL-STD-1773 optical fibre based data bus, which the IAF is seriously interested in. A factor that almost needs no mentioning is that Russia has carelessly squandered any time it was given to prove its reliability, but persisting with its putrid reputation for being fickle, even heartlessly apathetic, when it came to after-sales support. Even the IAF's existing MiG-29s suffer from serviceability issues as a result of Russia's refusal to cooperate quickly on spares and aggregates support. Politically, the government feels there is little that can be politically gained from Russia, considering that strategic ties are already mature, even at a saturation level. Secondly, Russia's position in international politics has plummetted relentlessly since the 1990s, and the country offers no strategic advantages anymore. Third, buying from Russia would be a full-frontal on the US, which -- like it or not -- is India's principal foreign policy holy grail.
 

K Factor

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yes indeed the link proves the jammer is cleared for export and Aussies will get the Growler. yes ALARM is a British missile but Rafale doesn't fire it. Mayavi will be ready by 2010 ready to go board the F-35 and our LCA. ALARM uses passive radar seekers and not INS and has loiter ability.

ATK - Successful AARGM firing (ATK)

speaking of moving targets the SH can deploy better weapons also capable of hitting moving targets SDB, LJDAM, SLAM, SLAM-ER, JSOW. Rafale has none of these weapons has the lowest amount of weapons flexibility compared to the Gripen NG, F-16IN, EF and F-18IN. Even with Growler lite using a couple of new AL-99Q jammers the SH will prtty much make the Rafale a sitting duck. The older jammer's jam radius is over 120km, the newer one is bound to be even more effective and its jam radius is higher than our very own ground based Samyukta.

The most obvious area where this lack of vision is displayed is in the Rafale's overall layout and its notable lack of signature reduction design features. The Rafale exhibits numerous features that would simply never be incorporated into any design intended to have a reduced RCS, including its prominent intakes, a huge vertical stabilizer, canards, a non-retractable refueling probe, and numerous other probes, protrusions, and other serious RCS offenders. What does this mean? Late in the Rafale's design process its engineers realized that they had failed to anticipate the key role RCS reduction would play in future designs and scambled to find ways to reduce the Rafale's RCS. With minimal experience with RCS reduction and an airframe that was already too far along in its design to be fixed, the end result was of course disappointing. Shaping is the single most important consideration in RCS reduction and the Rafale has too many major flaws to ever be considered stealthy. RAM coatings and last minute saw-tooth edge features are at best minimally effective on an aircraft that is otherwise designed all wrong from the start. Hence i always question the claim of it being as stealthy as many claim it to be. Even the SH has a lot cleaner forward stealth aspect.

Finally, one of the most critcal flaws in the Rafale's design is its widely misunderstood "Spectra" self protection jammer and RWR suite. As was done with the F-16 and Super Hornet, the Rafale design team sought to incorporate an internal self protection jammer into the Rafale to improve its survivability against radar guided threats. The major failure of Spectra was that its development cycle was far far too long and France's semiconductor and computer industry was simply incapable of providing the necessary components to create a truly cutting edge system. By the time it went from the drawing board to production, a period of over 10 years, it was barely able to match systems being offered by Israel and the United States on other 4th generation fighters. The Spectra self protection jammer simply lacks the processing power, flexibility, and diverse threat response range available on aircraft like the Super Hornet, F-16 block 60, or modern Israeli systems.

Instead, what Spectra offers are relatively simplistic signals generated by its prominent but inflexible and simplistic transmitters.(Based on narrow-band, inefficient MMICs, a constraint imposed by the lack of a domestic supplier for more modern MMICs, the same issue that has plauged France's AESA program.) Spectra is perhaps the least crippling of the Rafale's flaws, because it could potentially be removed and replaced with a more modern system. Spectra tacks up a relatively large amount of space and power for what it offers, so a modern design could certainly do more with the same space and power supply.

A Flanker can detect the Rafale at over 200km . This is not what I call "discreet".
:dazed::noo1::dazed: Not again.

BTW, were you flying that Flanker by any chance? :rofl:
 

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