Mitigating China Threat on India's Border

huaxia rox

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India climbdown may help China border dispute

BBC News - India climbdown may help China border dispute

By Subir Bhaumik

Itanagar, Arunachal Pradesh



Fifty years after India and China fought a month-long war over their disputed Himalayan territory, hopes of a solution to the boundary dispute seem to be emerging.

India seems to be climbing down from a stiff position that not an inch of its land can be given away to China to resolve the border dispute that has dogged the two Asian giants since the 1950s.

"It is important to solve the India-China border dispute and for that some give and take is necessary," said retired General JJ Singh.

"India will have to move away from our position that our territory is non-negotiable," he said.

Gen Singh did not specify the "give-and-take" he thought necessary, but specialists feel that he was hinting at India accepting some of the Chinese positions on the disputed Himalayan border and vice-versa.

Gen Singh is now governor of the frontier state of Arunachal Pradesh, the whole of which is claimed by China as its own.

Chinese maps mark the state as Southern Tibet and when the Chinese claim line was posted on Google earlier this year, it led to a furore in India.

Both countries have frequently accused the other of border incursions, but Gen Singh said they occurred because both armies go by their own conflicting versions of the border.

Giving the inaugural speech at a national seminar on Indo-China relations organised by the Indian Council of Social Science Research and Rajiv Gandhi University, Gen Singh made a strong plea for normalisation of Sino-Indian relations.

"The world has changed and we are a much more confident nation now. It is important to realise that we need a speedy resolution to the Indo-China boundary dispute and for that some give-and-take may be necessary."

However, he did not spell out where India might need to concede to Chinese positions and vice-versa.


"By and large, the McMahon Line will help resolve the boundary of the two countries but some incongruities apparent on the ground might have to be amicably resolved and there is no scope for conflict as we have agreed to resolve the issue peacefully," the Arunachal Pradesh governor said.

The McMahon Line was drawn up by British India's Foreign Secretary, Sir Henry McMahon, in 1914 but is not accepted by China.

'Competitors, not rivals'

The way Gen Singh lashed out at those who predict a future Sino-Indian war indicates that the Indian establishment is keen to build bridges with China by controlling the tensions that have cropped up in recent months.

"A governor of a state bordering China would not make such an important statement unless he had been cleared to do so by Delhi," said CJ Thomas of the Indian Council of Social Science Research's North-eastern chapter.

Predictions of a looming Sino-Indian war were "utter nonsense", Gen Singh said.

"I must tell these futurologists and experts to stop this nonsense of predicting a Indo-China war, first in 2010, then in 2012 and now in 2020. They will be proved wrong as we will not fight. We are competitors, not rivals," he said.

"These experts have no ground knowledge, they don't know that Chinese and Indian soldiers actually play volleyball on the borders.

"We have plans for extensive military-to-military interactions between the two countries," Gen Singh told the conference. "That includes joint military exercises."

He said India will nevertheless not compromise on its military preparedness.

But the governor said there was no scope for a purely militaristic approach and it was equally important to develop Arunachal Pradesh by utilising its considerable resources so that the "very patriotic Arunachalis" feel more and more strongly about defending their land against any possible aggression.

Talking of Chinese territorial claims on the area, Gen Singh said: "Our Chinese friends should come here and find out for themselves what the Arunachalis feel about China and India. Nobody here wants to be part of China."

Swap offer

Many China specialists in India have welcomed Singh's statements.

"We need a pragmatic approach to resolve the border dispute, said CV Rangnathan, a former Indian ambassador to China who also attended the conference.

"We can't keep the matter hanging and a give-and-take approach is the best way to do it."

"It is high time the sabre-rattling and one-upmanship stopped and China and India find a way to resolve the festering border dispute," said China specialist Shrikant Kondapalli. "That will take both countries forward."

China claims about 90,000 sq km (35,100 sq miles) of what India says is her territory, mostly in the eastern part of their shared border.

India has been reluctant to part with any portion of the disputed territory since the 1950s. It rejected a swap offer made by China's former Prime Minister Zhou Enlai in 1960, asking India to recognise China's control of Aksai Chin in the west as a quid pro quo for China's recognition of the McMahon line.

After rejecting that offer, India initiated a "forward policy" to control the disputed territories in the Himalayas.

Many specialists like Neville Maxwell, author of India's China War blame this policy for the 1962 war between the two countries, in which the India army was routed and the Chinese almost reached the plains of Assam before withdrawing to their present positions on the Tibet-Arunachal border.
 

panduranghari

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The word is civil not civic. Jesus, you don't get much for your 50cents these days.
Actually Amoy is among the more credible of the Chinese posters. I would be nice to him as he is generally nice to us too.

There are many 50 centers here, I think Amoy may not be one of them. But hey ho what the hell do I know.
 

Tianshan

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Actually Amoy is among the more credible of the Chinese posters. I would be nice to him as he is generally nice to us too.

There are many 50 centers here, I think Amoy may not be one of them. But hey ho what the hell do I know.
i don't think he cares about our posting history, only that we are chinese.
 

Ray

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Gen JJ Singh's Sneak preview of pragmatic China policy

Sneak preview of pragmatic China policy


New Delhi, April 20: A statement from Arunachal Pradesh governor J.J. Singh that India should prepare for "give and take" to resolve its boundary dispute with China is unlikely to be publicly welcomed by South Block.

Privately, though, the mandarins concede that the former army chief's prescription is the only practicable one.....

....India needed to move away from its position that its territory is non-negotiable. China has welcomed the remarks.

"It is important to solve the India-China border dispute and, for that, some give-and-take is necessary," Singh said. "India will have to move away from our position that our territory is non-negotiable.".....

Singh did not explain what he meant by "give and take", but government sources and experts say the phrase is well known among students of the boundary dispute. It means India accepts Aksai Chin as Chinese territory while Beijing recognises the McMahon Line, meant to demarcate the whole of Arunachal from Tibet.

If such a "give and take" becomes reality, India would not have to give up any territory that it actually possesses but will gain parts of Tawang now occupied by China.

Singh's office today clarified his remarks were "personal" and not made in his capacity as Arunachal governor. Sources, however, said it was unlikely that he could have made such a remark in public without New Delhi's go-ahead.

His comments are being seen as part of South Block's efforts to educate Indian public opinion and build a political consensus on the subject.

Although the two nations have been focusing on economic co-operation, leaving the boundary dispute on the backburner, sources said Beijing was getting impatient at New Delhi's failure to convince public opinion on the matter and the stalemate the talks had reached.

Singh made it clear he believed that India shouldn't compromise on its military preparedness and rejected Chinese claims on Arunachal.

"Our Chinese friends should come here and find out for themselves what the Arunachalis feel about China and India. Nobody here wants to be part of China," he said.

More at:
So, JJ Singh is the parrot on Long John Silver's shoulder!

Give and take.

India loses nothing!

India, after all, has lost whatever she has to lose and has lost, so she will loses nothing!

We must never forget that China is getting impatient with us that we have not been able to mobilise public opinion to give up our claims and that is really cheeky of India, right?!

Maybe from Chief to a Governor and now to the UN Secretary Generalship and even a Nobel Prize!

That's the way to go! Attaboy!
 
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nitesh

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Why we are in so hurry to give away our territories?
 

niharjhatn

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WTH do they mean since 1950... this has been an issue since British days. What happened, BBC suffers from amnesia regarding anything prior to 1950?
 

niharjhatn

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India has been reluctant to part with any portion of the disputed territory since the 1950s. It rejected a swap offer made by China's former Prime Minister Zhou Enlai in 1960, asking India to recognise China's control of Aksai Chin in the west as a quid pro quo for China's recognition of the McMahon line.


Preposterous!

It's like India asking China - Hey, you give us Macau and we will let you keep the rest of China!
 

Ray

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He is His Master's Voice and MMS is his Master!

Motto: Peace at all Costs.

Peace with being done by being inflicted a thousand cuts!
 

Ray

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Subir Bhaumik of the BBC has always been a true BBC reporter - highlighting India's negativity and also anything to create divisions or show India buckling down for the good of the world!
 

Ray

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Actually Amoy is among the more credible of the Chinese posters. I would be nice to him as he is generally nice to us too.

There are many 50 centers here, I think Amoy may not be one of them. But hey ho what the hell do I know.
There is a fair amount of balance in his posts.

One should address his post and not bait him!
 

aerokan

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BBC News - India climbdown may help China border dispute

By Subir Bhaumik

Itanagar, Arunachal Pradesh



Fifty years after India and China fought a month-long war over their disputed Himalayan territory, hopes of a solution to the boundary dispute seem to be emerging.

India seems to be climbing down from a stiff position that not an inch of its land can be given away to China to resolve the border dispute that has dogged the two Asian giants since the 1950s.

"It is important to solve the India-China border dispute and for that some give and take is necessary," said retired General JJ Singh.

"India will have to move away from our position that our territory is non-negotiable," he said.

Gen Singh did not specify the "give-and-take" he thought necessary, but specialists feel that he was hinting at India accepting some of the Chinese positions on the disputed Himalayan border and vice-versa.

Gen Singh is now governor of the frontier state of Arunachal Pradesh, the whole of which is claimed by China as its own.

Chinese maps mark the state as Southern Tibet and when the Chinese claim line was posted on Google earlier this year, it led to a furore in India.

Both countries have frequently accused the other of border incursions, but Gen Singh said they occurred because both armies go by their own conflicting versions of the border.

Giving the inaugural speech at a national seminar on Indo-China relations organised by the Indian Council of Social Science Research and Rajiv Gandhi University, Gen Singh made a strong plea for normalisation of Sino-Indian relations.

"The world has changed and we are a much more confident nation now. It is important to realise that we need a speedy resolution to the Indo-China boundary dispute and for that some give-and-take may be necessary."

However, he did not spell out where India might need to concede to Chinese positions and vice-versa.


"By and large, the McMahon Line will help resolve the boundary of the two countries but some incongruities apparent on the ground might have to be amicably resolved and there is no scope for conflict as we have agreed to resolve the issue peacefully," the Arunachal Pradesh governor said.

The McMahon Line was drawn up by British India's Foreign Secretary, Sir Henry McMahon, in 1914 but is not accepted by China.

'Competitors, not rivals'

The way Gen Singh lashed out at those who predict a future Sino-Indian war indicates that the Indian establishment is keen to build bridges with China by controlling the tensions that have cropped up in recent months.

"A governor of a state bordering China would not make such an important statement unless he had been cleared to do so by Delhi," said CJ Thomas of the Indian Council of Social Science Research's North-eastern chapter.

Predictions of a looming Sino-Indian war were "utter nonsense", Gen Singh said.

"I must tell these futurologists and experts to stop this nonsense of predicting a Indo-China war, first in 2010, then in 2012 and now in 2020. They will be proved wrong as we will not fight. We are competitors, not rivals," he said.

"These experts have no ground knowledge, they don't know that Chinese and Indian soldiers actually play volleyball on the borders.

"We have plans for extensive military-to-military interactions between the two countries," Gen Singh told the conference. "That includes joint military exercises."

He said India will nevertheless not compromise on its military preparedness.

But the governor said there was no scope for a purely militaristic approach and it was equally important to develop Arunachal Pradesh by utilising its considerable resources so that the "very patriotic Arunachalis" feel more and more strongly about defending their land against any possible aggression.

Talking of Chinese territorial claims on the area, Gen Singh said: "Our Chinese friends should come here and find out for themselves what the Arunachalis feel about China and India. Nobody here wants to be part of China."

Swap offer

Many China specialists in India have welcomed Singh's statements.

"We need a pragmatic approach to resolve the border dispute, said CV Rangnathan, a former Indian ambassador to China who also attended the conference.

"We can't keep the matter hanging and a give-and-take approach is the best way to do it."

"It is high time the sabre-rattling and one-upmanship stopped and China and India find a way to resolve the festering border dispute," said China specialist Shrikant Kondapalli. "That will take both countries forward."

China claims about 90,000 sq km (35,100 sq miles) of what India says is her territory, mostly in the eastern part of their shared border.

India has been reluctant to part with any portion of the disputed territory since the 1950s. It rejected a swap offer made by China's former Prime Minister Zhou Enlai in 1960, asking India to recognise China's control of Aksai Chin in the west as a quid pro quo for China's recognition of the McMahon line.

After rejecting that offer, India initiated a "forward policy" to control the disputed territories in the Himalayas.

Many specialists like Neville Maxwell, author of India's China War blame this policy for the 1962 war between the two countries, in which the India army was routed and the Chinese almost reached the plains of Assam before withdrawing to their present positions on the Tibet-Arunachal border.
I have 2 apples, u have none. I grab one and claim another. And then say if you agree with me that one apple is mine, i will not try to snatch your other apple. Great logic China :thumb: No wonder your colonials master's mouth piece BBC loves you so much :lol:
 

cir

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India needs to start buying UK arms to avoid the reappearing of the stories of this nature。
 

LalTopi

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i don't think he cares about our posting history, only that we are chinese.
Ok. Mental note. Be nice to Amoy.
Just to clarify, I have no issues regarding Chinese ethnic people. They are amongst the nicest most polite people I know. Heck, my nephew married a HK Chinese girl, and I get on great with her. My issues are with the CCP and their nationistic fascist bullying policies. With these people there should be no appeasment, Neville Chamberlin learned this the hard way.
 

Ray

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OK, have it out with CCP and mention it so.

However, as they say, take on the message and not the messenger!

Chinese, as people, are as good or bad as you or me!

I, too, have Chinese relations and they are super.

But that does not stop me from not commenting on the CCP or comments that, to my mind, are too way out!

Kickok, Amoy, Ohimalaya and SWJsome number are quite on the ball! They have to support their country, but they do so with facts and not emotional claptrap. One must appreciate that!

Not that I am saying anyone is wrong or right in what one is doing.
 
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aerokan

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i'm not in habit of bashing country for no reason, like someone here. tell you what if i post link on stuff i said negativelly regarding china would you say: """sorry, i was wrong, i shouldn't use pitful excuse such as you work for CCP becuase we have different opinions etc :hail:"""
FYI, i haven't said that you were a CCP worker. As i said several times before, u are a chinese in the head, wherever u are. And the fact that u tried to cover up your position and tried to bring legitimacy to your posts by repeatedly claiming yourself as American. If u are an american, u would have considered china as existential threat to the world. U may have lived in the US but u can never become an american. Irrespective of what you say, the existential bias is clearly visible in your posts. Different opinions are always welcome but always taking one side is called bias. U can be biased if u are chinese. But since u call your self an American, it's called hypocracy. And still i haven't seen a single legitimate post properly criticizing china and taking indian side on atleast one single matter in this forum. Post it and u might get off my 'bash' list :thumb:
 

Oracle

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s002wjh - You sure know you have an IP? And you also know Chinese hackers are not that sophisticated not to leave traces? You're probably the only guys who have been honey-trapped, again and again.
 
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s002wjh

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FYI, i haven't said that you were a CCP worker. As i said several times before, u are a chinese in the head, wherever u are. And the fact that u tried to cover up your position and tried to bring legitimacy to your posts by repeatedly claiming yourself as American. If u are an american, u would have considered china as existential threat to the world. U may have lived in the US but u can never become an american. Irrespective of what you say, the existential bias is clearly visible in your posts. Different opinions are always welcome but always taking one side is called bias. U can be biased if u are chinese. But since u call your self an American, it's called hypocracy. And still i haven't seen a single legitimate post properly criticizing china and taking indian side on atleast one single matter in this forum. Post it and u might get off my 'bash' list :thumb:
again link post of my bias? did i said china has authority over india/china boarder, SCS, taiwan? like i said goto this forum, china section there are plently stuff i said about china negativetly. if you agree to the term of my previous post, ill link those post for ya.:rolleyes:
 

no smoking

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You illegally occupied Aksai Chin in 1962, just like you illegally occupied Tibet and East Turkestan. There is no dispute there. Arunachal Pradesh dispute is based on the Mcmahon line. And based on the fact that your occupation of Tibet is illegal, any claim based on the McMahon line is a dispute between Tibet and India, not China and India. Why you making silly comparisons.
ILLEGALLY? Defined by who? You? No doubt.

When you decided to acknowledge that tibet is part of China, whatever you claim on the McMahon line was a dispute between China and India.
 

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