Mirage upgrade: To be completed within 10 years

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Sridhar, Feb 23, 2010.

  1. Sridhar

    Sridhar House keeper Moderator

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    India, France to finalise upgrade of Mirage jets in Rs 10,000 cr project

    BY: TNN
    [​IMG]
    India and France are now finally close to inking the around Rs 10,000 crore project to upgrade the Mirage-2000 fighter jets in the IAF combat fleet after protracted negotiations.
    The first four to six IAF Mirages will be upgraded in France, while the rest 50 will equipped with new avionics, weapon and sensor suites to enhance their combat edge by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd in India under transfer of technology in the project.
    �It (the project finalisation) should happen shortly,� IAF chief Air Chief Marshal P V Naik told TOI on Monday. This will be the second such big programme with the upgrade of 63 MiG-29s already underway under a $964 million contract inked with Russia in March 2008.
    It will also be the second big defence deal to be inked with France after the ongoing Rs 18,798 crore project to construct six Scorpene submarines at Mazagon Docks, which incidentally is running two years behind schedule amid huge cost escalation.
    �The scope of Mirage upgrade will be much larger than the MiG-29 one�it will be more high-end. It will cost half of the fighter�s worth. After the upgrade, the Mirages will serve us for another 15-20 years,� said another officer.
    The multi-role fighters will be `souped-up� with new avionics, radars, mission computers, glass cockpits, helmet-mounted displays, electronic warfare suites, jam-proof communication with data links, weapon delivery and precision-targeting systems, including the all-weather, fire-and-forget MICA (interception and aerial combat missiles) systems.
    �A French team will be coming again in early-March to finalise the details. The CNC (contract negotiation committee) should conclude in another two months. The Cabinet Committee on Security�s approval will then be sought,� he added.
    The inking of the deal could be well be timed with French President Nicolas Sarkozy�s proposed visit to India later in the year. The project has been hanging fire for the last few years because the package offered by French companies Dassault Aviation (aircraft manufacturer), Thales (weapons systems integrator) and MBDA (missile supplier) was around 30% higher than what India was ready to pay.
    Having first inducted 40 Mirages in the mid-1980s, India had procured over 20 more in later years. With the Mirages successfully conducting `targeted bombings� during the 1999 Kargil conflict, IAF had some years ago even pitched for the advanced Mirage-2000-Vs for its gigantic $10.4-billion project for 126 new medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA).
    But even as France shut down its Mirage assembly line, the defence ministry also told IAF to go in for `a global tender� for the MMRCA project. Now, the French Rafale is competing with American F/A-18 `Super Hornet� (Boeing) and F-16 `Falcon� (Lockheed Martin), Russian MiG-35 (United Aircraft Corporation), Swedish Gripen (Saab) and Eurofighter Typhoon (consortium of British, German, Spanish and Italian companies) in the hotly-contested MMRCA race.
    Faced with a depleting number of fighter squadrons (each has 16 to 18 jets), down to just 32 from a `sanctioned strength� of 39.5, IAF is going for a mix of upgrades and new inductions like Sukhoi-30MKIs to maintain its combat readiness.

    Indian Army drill in May to validate 10,000 personnel mobilisation in 48-hours | idrw.org
     
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  3. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Good, now we can tell Pakistan to take a hike with their Thunder Blunders.
     
  4. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    If I can still count and divide, then Rs. 10,000 crores is aproximately USD $2.5 Billion dollars !!!!!!! ?????

    Holy Cow........at current prices of about USD $50 million a piece, you could buy 50 4th or 4++ generation brand new fighters like the Rafael or the F-18 for that money.

    For that matter if you were to go for the F-16 or the Gripen, you could probably buy a 100 for USD $2.5 billion bucks.

    Is the IAF force depletion so bad, that they cant afford to wait for brand new planes and have no choice but to upgrade existing aircraft - this sounds like highway robbery !!

    The French must be laughing their asses off till thay have tears in their eyes. Instead of buying a bunch of Rafale to replace the Mirages like they suggested to the Indian Government years ago - now they get to upgrade the old Mirage for the same price as a brand new Rafale. If the Indian Gov had done what the french suggested, they would probably have a squadron of Rafale by now and could slowly retire the Mirages as Rafales took their place.

    As an ethnic Indian myself, sometimes I really wonder, if we are just plain f*cking stupid. Talk about pissing money down the drain !!
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010
    xuxu likes this.
  5. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

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    you were waiting for this. weren't you?

    i would have been more happy with a swap of mirages for rafale. they are fresh and would have lasted atleast 3 decades.
     
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  6. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Ok I guess Rafale is out of the race....
     
  7. Soham

    Soham DFI TEAM Senior Member

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    Bloody hell ! That's expensive upgrading !
     
  8. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Actually it strengthens the bid. 2000-5 shares many of the same Thales made components as the Rafale. Thales India is giving ToT for the modernisation which can then be used in a Rafale purchase. Just as the MiG-29 upgrade enhances the prospects of MiG-35, so does the Mirage upgrade for Rafale.
     
  9. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    Its too bloody expensive. Someone is sure screwing up and making a neat packet in the bargain.
     
  10. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    Who says we have only 50 Mirage 2000 .If it is 25 million per plane ( as it is written in the article that it
    will cost us half the price of a new plane) then it means we have 100 Mirage 2000.
    Remember these planes are present in IAF.
    when we buy new planes ie MMRCA planes they will come from 2013 onwards and at the rate of12 to 15 planes a year.
     
  11. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Well Rafale with its present M 88 configuration engine is still underpowered than all its other contenders. It is a very important issue when it comes to IAF as they have been using aircrafts with TWR of more than 1 for the past years. The Rafale also has a disadvantage in higher altitude where its thrust is decreased. And Armand I wanted to ask if $50mil is alright just for the upgrade?...c'mon the F 18 costs $50 million why not go directly for the F 18 under FMS like we did with the M 777 fr the howitzers?
     
  12. JayChennai

    JayChennai Regular Member

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    We have around 53 of them , and not 100. French stuffs are costly, so thats why upgrade costs so much.
     
  13. JayChennai

    JayChennai Regular Member

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    Also i think the upgrade includes some MICA missiles
     
  14. Blitz

    Blitz Founding Member

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    my worries are different with the reducing number of fighters and all the older migs in bad shape howcome all the frontline fighters are under upgradation at the same time with mig 29 and mirages out for upgradation we will be left with only 100 odd sukhoi and jags why not do it stepwise also will it be of the mirage 2005-09 standard post the upgradation or just extending the lifetime and some new weapons , what about the radar ?
     
  15. JayChennai

    JayChennai Regular Member

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    "The multi-role fighters will be `souped-up’ with new avionics, radars, mission computers, glass cockpits, helmet-mounted displays, electronic warfare suites, jam-proof communication with data links, weapon delivery and precision-targeting systems, including the all-weather, fire-and-forget MICA (interception and aerial combat missiles) systems."
     
  16. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    Blitz the upgrade includes radar, and upgrade is always a step by step process, we don't take the whole fleet out and upgrade :)
     
  17. notinlove

    notinlove Regular Member

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    All i can do is be me, whoever that is.
    Robbery , bloody robbery , i cannot believe this , so much money and that too without engine upgrades

    Moreover when the deal got stuck, the money that the french were asking for was the same was it not , then how come the MoD agreed to it?
     
  18. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Holy Hell
    I don't find any problems with this deal. The entire avionics suite is being replaced(including new radar and new EW suite). The upgrade also includes the costs of the missiles.

    Also, the cost comes to $2.1Billion according to current estimates. That's like ~$40Million for each plane and its ammo.
     
  19. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    $40 million for upgrade sounds a lot. Its almost the cost of a brand new plane!
     
  20. Zoravar

    Zoravar Regular Member

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    I'm sure this has some connection with the fact that they're supporting us for permanent seat in UNSC.Btw we have 60 mirages,not 50 not 100.
     
  21. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

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    I concede that $2.17b is high for an upgrade package that doesn't include new engines, but in retrospect, South Block may have struck many birds with one stone.

    1. The primary goal of upgrading our Mirage fleet
    2. Lobbying against sale of radar technologies for JF-17 Blunder, rendering it a blind bird for maybe a lot longer
    3. Transferred a heap of technologies
    4. Sweetened relations with a country that can help chase the UNSC permanent seat
    5. Maybe help our case when bargaining for MMRCA (where we might as well save a billion dollars, since $12b is roughly an upper limit, and requirement is 126 pieces, therefore a "billion more" here might make MMRCA that much less).
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010

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