Military to propose setting up US-style unified commands

[Indx TechStyle]

Military to propose setting up US-style unified commands

Combat demonstration during 69th Army Day celebrations (Picture: Ramesh Sharma)
HIGHLIGHTS

• PMO is keen on a proposal that would establish unified commands in different areas of the country.
• Each command would have one officer in charge of the resources of all the three services.
• Currently, such a command is in place only in Andaman and Nicobar.
• US military functions on the basis of such theatre commands; China recently adopted the practice.

Signalling a major restructuring of the armed forces, Prime Minister Narendra Modi will be given a detailed presentation by the armed forces on the creation of theatre commands in the country to bring in better coordination among the three armed forces.

The presentation would be made by the chairman of the Chiefs of Staffs Committee and Navy's Chief Admiral Sunil Lanba during the Combined Commanders' Conference to be held at the Indian Military Academy in Dehradoon on January 21, sources told Mail Today here.

A detailed report in this regard has already been prepared by the services with inputs from all stakeholders, the sources said. A 'theatre command' would mean that the resources of all three forces will be placed at the command of senior military commander. The move would be on the lines of how military commands operate in United States and China, which recently made the change too.

Explaining how it would work, a source said that the country is divided into four to five major areas and the assets and personnel of the Army, Navy and Air Force are put under one officer who can belong to any of the three services. In the Indian context, the country can be divided into geographical theatres like southern peninsula, mountainous borders with Pakistan and China in the north, the deserts and plains with Pakistan and the central and eastern borders with China.

The commands can be given to the respective services based on the terrain. For example, a Navy officer can be made in-charge of the southern theatre comprising the eastern and western seaboard with all naval, Army and Air Force assets under him as the fighting would be in the maritime zone, the sources said.

PMO KEEN ON THE PROPOSAL

"The Prime Minister's Office is very keen on the proposal which was initiated after the NDA government under Modi came to power and is considered very important for increasing jointness in the forces," the sources said.

In his maiden meeting with commanders, Modi had expressed anguish at the lack of coordination among them and asked them to work towards more joint operations rather than remaining in silos.

In 2015, after China re-structured its military commands, the Army was asked by the government to work on creation of theatre commands and work out its command and control structures based upon the threat perceptions.

World's most powerful military power America also works on the basis of theatre commands but their theatre areas include several countries and sometimes continents while the Chinese recently divided their military into six theatre commands.

In comparison with China, India has 17 single-service commands with seven each of Army and Air Force and three of the Navy. The commands operate with lot of inter-service rivalry.

The CCC is also likely to review the functioning of nation's only tri-service operational command functioning in Andaman and Nicobar Command as it functions with a naval head and deputies from Air Force and Army.

The CCC will also take up several other issues for reforms, including the creation of the post of a new General to be known as Permanent, Chairman Chiefs of Staffs Committee.

Also read: PM Modi to be briefed about creating a new top post for armed forces
Also read: Indian Army Day: Interesting facts on our defending wall

 

[Chinmoy]

This is something long overdue. India should have atleast Five Theater command in form of North, South, West, East and Central.
Although unified command system has been there at places during specific time in India, but it has not comprised of all the three services at any given time.

 

[Mikesingh]

So the chiefs of all three services are going to be only nominal administrative heads with no operational control over the Unified Commands?

 

[Chinmoy]

So the chiefs of all three services are going to be only nominal administrative heads with no operational control over the Unified Commands?

Not like that. All three service chiefs would be overall administrative head of their respective service, but in theatre command there would be one operational head for all the three services. Its as same as DGMO and Chief of Army Staff. While Chief of Staff looks after administrative issue, operational commands lies with DGMO who works under Chief of Army.

 

[IndianHawk]

Integrated theater command is an old idea.
We must not follow whatever china and USA are doing but adapt to our unique two front war scenario.

Anyway network centric warfare would fundamentally alter the way decisions are taken in battlefield. Smaller faster units shall be our priority no matter how we build superstructure upon them.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

adapt to our unique two front war scenario.

Two front war scenario is impossible itself. I have enough debated on "worst case scenario" vs "most likely scenario" enough with others.
You do seriously think that China will like to be messed up in an Indo Pakistani war?

Over that, even Pakistanis aren't that stupid to interfere in any Sino Indian confrontation. India will first kick them in @$$, then, will move ahead for China. They also know it better.

We must not follow whatever china and USA are doing

Why? We want to be what US or China are so why not follow them? Integrating the armed forces is best way for making expeditionary forces to conquer the world. It's better than concentrating your entire radiance on one region for remaining attentive against a two front war; remaining always occupied in "South Asia".

Hollow vessels definitely deserve and IGNORE from India now. Let's change the league!
For a much more meaningful and important place in world.

 

[Adioz]

Integrated theater command is an old idea.
We must not follow whatever china and USA are doing but adapt to our unique two front war scenario.

Anyway network centric warfare would fundamentally alter the way decisions are taken in battlefield. Smaller faster units shall be our priority no matter how we build superstructure upon them.

Infantry is also an old idea. Maybe we should not follow that anymore as well.


We are late to the game when it comes to jointness of armed forces, but it does not mean we are blindly copying USA or PRC. An absence of such an architecture has always been a big problem for armed forces of countries the world over. Its a lesson of WW-II.

For example: There were always disagreements between the Imperial Japanese Army and Navy on matters pertaining to strategy and tactics. For example, how Lt. General Kuribayashi had disagreements with the naval commanders under his operational command during the defense of Iwo Jima. Then there were the disagreements between the US Navy and Marine Corps on the opposite side of the same battle (Battle of Iwo Jima). The inter-service rivalry between US Marines and US Army is another example. And the list goes on.

Yes network-centric ops are the future and that might require units that are more nimble on their feet, but I do not buy the "no matter how we build superstructure upon them" BS. That command structure is vital in ensuring better agility and coherent force concentration from the same units.

Not like that. All three service chiefs would be overall administrative head of their respective service, but in theatre command there would be one operational head for all the three services. Its as same as DGMO and Chief of Army Staff. While Chief of Staff looks after administrative issue, operational commands lies with DGMO who works under Chief of Army.

The point is we need a Five star commander as CDS to enforce this structure top down. In the current likely scenario, Chiefs of Staff will outrank the joint-theater commanders. Also, we need coordination between all theaters. A CDS is vital in ensuring optimal distribution of war assets to all Theater Commands. We can't have the Chiefs of Staff (or the current system of a Chairman COSC) perform that role.

Two front war scenario is impossible itself. I have enough debated on "worst case scenario" vs "most likely scenario" enough with others.
You do seriously think that China will like to be messed up in an Indo Pakistani war?

Not likely in this half of the century, but not all that improbable in the second half, IMHO.

Considering that Pakistan has already succumbed to Chinese overtures that are meant to turn Pakistan into a proxy state that keeps Indian military occupied with a more volatile border and an insurgency, its not all that unlikely to me that the Chinese will take at-least some military action to stop Indian War Machine as it destroys Pakistan.

My bet is that if and when we finally declare the last Indo-Pak war with the aim to eradicate Porki-disease from the world, and when the Porki military is on the brink of obliteration, the PLA might try to enter Porkistan as a last ditch attempt to save its proxy from total annihilation. If it can ensure the continued existence of even a small part of Pakistan, it will ensure a proxy (albeit a significantly weakened one) to engage India in the future. Also, considering how the Himalayas are the main reason why PLA is at a disadvantage if it fights head on with the Indian Armed Forces, PRC will be anxious not to loose a country that can serve as a military springboard for mechanised forces of PLA to be able to carry out action threatening Northern plains and the Thar (Even as the Himalayan passes are shut due to winter). This is identical to how Hitler invaded France. He first invaded Belgium and Netherlands (the low countries) and then used them as a springboard to launch armoured pincers into France. He did not directly challenge the formidable French defenses at the Maginot line. Rather he bypassed these and caught the French napping.

 

[Chinmoy]

The point is we need a Five star commander as CDS to enforce this structure top down. In the current likely scenario, Chiefs of Staff will outrank the joint-theater commanders. Also, we need coordination between all theaters. A CDS is vital in ensuring optimal distribution of war assets to all Theater Commands. We can't have the Chiefs of Staff (or the current system of a Chairman COSC) perform that role.

You are right in what you are saying. But you have to consider the fact that theater commanders would only be responsible for the particular theater in case of any small scale war like Kargil. If we had a theater commander at time of Kargil, IAF and IA could have worked in better coordination. Theater commander just bring down the chain of approval any service team has to go through at such time. He could use any asset available to him irrespective of the fact that from which arm of service it is from, without going through the hierarchy in attaining the order. One such good example of coordination is September 29 incident.

@IndianHawk ........ Don't confuse network centric warfare with theater command concept. Both are two different things and both are equally important. You can't leave one for another.

 

[IndianHawk]

Infantry is also an old idea. Maybe we should not follow that anymore as well.


We are late to the game when it comes to jointness of armed forces, but it does not mean we are blindly copying USA or PRC. An absence of such an architecture has always been a big problem for armed forces of countries the world over. Its a lesson of WW-II.

You perhaps took it out of context. All I said is that we must asses the utility of theatre command in a two front war scenario. Especially when one of our adversaries is multiple times stronger than the other.

Two front war will require us to be extremely flexible with force deployment.
Sometimes we'll need more force in East sometimes in West.

That is why I prioritize small nimble Battle groups. Which can swiftly change positions.

no matter how we build superstructure upon them" BS. That command structure is vital in ensuring better agility and coherent force concentration from the same units.

That is not BS atleast not in my mind.
For me small force battle groups are first priority superstructure will depend upon it.
This of course doesn't negate the importance of superstructure, just that such an structure should be informed by small Battle formations.

@IndianHawk ........ Don't confuse network centric warfare with theater command concept. Both are two different things and both are equally important. You can't leave one for another.

Not confused. Theater command consist of may sub concepts some of which we can chose some we can discard .

We can tweak entire notion as no two war are ever same so no concept of warfare is absolute.

We must formulate our own strategy and we can then call it whatever we want .

 

[IndianHawk]

My bet is that if and when we finally declare the last Indo-Pak war with the aim to eradicate Porki-disease from the world, and when the Porki military is on the brink of obliteration, the PLA might try to enter Porkistan as a last ditch attempt to save its proxy from total annihilation. If it can ensure the continued existence of even a small part of Pakistan, it will ensure a proxy (albeit a significantly weakened one) to engage India in the future. Also,

Pakistani Punjab will survive as a separate province even if we divide pak into multiple parts. And they will hate us for atleast 5to 7 decades. So chinese will always have an proxy.(unless of course we nuke it:biggrin2: that we won't)

Also Chinese will defenatively intervene to secure their sea port connection.
That is absolutely vital in their global outreach.
(Unless we warn them of nuclear retaliation)

So we must mess up pakistan so much internallt that division should seem like a paradise for every porki

 

[IndianHawk]

Why? We want to be what US or China are so why not follow them? Integrating the armed forces is best way for making expeditionary forces to conquer the world. It's better than concentrating your entire radiance on one region for remaining attentive against a two front war; remaining always occupied in "South Asia".

Hollow vessels definitely deserve and IGNORE from India now. Let's change the league!

Because they have much bigger forces with much more resources with much more budget.

Chinese could have done this lot before but they waited until they reached a certain budget / resources level.

Also chinese are transforming PLA into a mean and lean force with less manpower more fire power.
They are also expanding naval air arms frenetically.

We are still a manpower oriented force. First we must transform fundamentals.

 

[Adioz]

Pakistani Punjab will survive as a separate province even if we divide pak into multiple parts. And they will hate us for atleast 5to 7 decades. So chinese will always have an proxy.(unless of course we nuke it:biggrin2: that we won't)

Also Chinese will defenatively intervene to secure their sea port connection.
That is absolutely vital in their global outreach.
(Unless we warn them of nuclear retaliation)

So we must mess up pakistan so much internallt that division should seem like a paradise for every porki

Or we could hope for positive change in Pakistan.

There is thread to track such a change that @SANITY started. Its called Positive Pakistan But posters on this forum took offense at the title of the thread and started shitting on that thread.

Before you jump on that bandwagon, read one of my posts from that thread:-

I saw this thread's title and thought "Good". Then I came here and read the contents:-

On a more serious note:-
I think @Bornubus , @Krusty , @aditya10r @A chauhan , @raheel besharam , @DingDong , @3deffect , @thethinker and @pankaj nema misunderstood this thread's intended purpose. The fault lies, somewhat, with the title of the thread: "Positive-Pakistan". @SANITY bro, words like positive and pakistan don't go together.

Now what i think was the intended purpose of this thread was to propagate any news that we can use to reassure ourselves that the Porkis are not complete goners. This means that any Pakistani guy (like Dr Hoodboy, Tarek Fateh, etc) that can see some logic and attempt to wean Porkis off of this state where they live in denial and try to compete with India, instead of submitting to our influence, is good news............to us.

We need the Porkis to come out of this fantasy world. Once they do, they'll realize their place in the world. They'll realize that Kashmir is a part of India (they'll realize what that UN resolution on Kashmir actually says). They'll realize how much they stink. They'll realize their history (and that they are not Arabs). They'll realize their history (and that their version of history taught in their textbooks is wrong). They'll realize that maintaining their nukes is costing them dearly. They'll realize that they must discard their nukes and spend on their infrastructure....... I know I am positively dreaming at this point. But all of us, on all sides of the spectrum in our country, realize that it is to our benefit if Porkis somehow come out of their own Narnia and accept reality.

This, in my view is the intended purpose of this thread and it would do us well to not think of this as another one of those Aman-ki-asha bull****.

Pakistani people like her continue to give me hope and a reason to believe that change is possible from within Pakistan. People like her make me reconsider my wish to nuke that entire country. Lets hope more of her kind erupt in Pakistan with similar outbursts and I further hope this translates into an Arab Spring for these Arab Wannabes. If that happens, we will finally get rid of this troublesome neighbour without firing a shot ourselves, and then we can all focus on China: the real threat.
We'll just have to be ready to exploit such an opportunity. When Spring comes to Pakistan, we must be ready to secure Sir Creek, PoK and Paki nuclear arsenal.
Lets hope fir the best.

Some more people like her:-

The only 3 ways to get rid of this troublesome neighbor:-

• Nuking and killing off their entire population (not a feasible or humane option)
• Annexing Pakistan into The Republic of India (many people on both sides of the border will be against this. And it will cause an enormous setback to our development schedule we'll have to sort out that mess.)
• Pakistan ceases to exist as Pakistan and an Arab-spring style uprising creates a new state that focuses on their development and believes in peaceful borders (like any other nation state). This can only happen if the people of Pakistan decide to dump their ISI, Armed forces, Jihadi forces, Kashmir issue, India phobia, etc and start focusing on the real problems. (This is the option I pray will happen)

Further discussions on this topic in Postive Pakistan thread please, we are derailing this one.

Edit:
Option 4:-
We invade Pakistan and defeat it completely. We dismantle all their current institutions ('cause they have gone beyond the point of no return IMHO). Then we strip them of their nuclear weapons(maybe we need to make that the prime objective of the war). Next, we impose a new constitution on them, or maybe oversee them creating a new constitution based on a new idea (not the old two-state theory crap) and with a friendship treaty with all its neighbours enshrined in the constitution. Over the next few decades we might have to point them in the right direction time and again, as they begin to build and strengthen their institutions. Finally, we need to ensure that this time they choose a new name for their country (psychological move to ensure a they get a closure).

Riskier than option 3, but the last resort if 3 does not pan out.

 

[Adioz]

Military to propose setting up US-style unified commands

Combat demonstration during 69th Army Day celebrations (Picture: Ramesh Sharma)
HIGHLIGHTS

• PMO is keen on a proposal that would establish unified commands in different areas of the country.
• Each command would have one officer in charge of the resources of all the three services.
• Currently, such a command is in place only in Andaman and Nicobar.
• US military functions on the basis of such theatre commands; China recently adopted the practice.

PMO KEEN ON THE PROPOSALAlso read: PM Modi to be briefed about creating a new top post for armed forces
Also read: Indian Army Day: Interesting facts on our defending wall

So the CCC meeting is tomorrow. Fingers-crossed. May we have theater commands approved 24 hours from now.

My guess:-

• Northern Command (or Himalayan command) [J&K, to Sikkim (excluding Sikkim)] <Army commander>
• Eastern Command [North East + Sikkim] <Army Commander>
• Western Command [International border with Pakistan] <Army Commander>
• Southern Command [Peninsula+Andaman Nicobar+Lakshadweep] <Navy Commander>
• Central Command [Strategic Reserve and Out of Area Operations] <Air Force Commander>

Anybody got any ideas? What will it be like?
Any idea how long it will take to implement the changes supposing we get good news tomorrow?

 

[Rushil51]

So the CCC meeting is tomorrow. Fingers-crossed. May we have theater commands approved 24 hours from now.

My guess:-

• Northern Command (or Himalayan command) [J&K, to Sikkim (excluding Sikkim)] <Army commander>
• Eastern Command [North East + Sikkim] <Army Commander>
• Western Command [International border with Pakistan] <Army Commander>
• Southern Command [Peninsula+Andaman Nicobar+Lakshadweep] <Navy Commander>
• Central Command [Strategic Reserve and Out of Area Operations] <Air Force Commander>

Anybody got any ideas? What will it be like?
Any idea how long it will take to implement the changes supposing we get good news tomorrow?

I am not sure 3 Army commanders will get the post compared to just one to each Navy and Air force. Maybe there won't be such a criteria. I also think the 3 service chiefs will work under the CDS in an advisory postions.

No news on the front from the CCC meeting, sadly.