Military Reform in Pakistan: Will the Army Allow Politicians to Rule? - AEI

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by ejazr, Dec 4, 2011.

  1. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,518
    Likes Received:
    1,378
    Location:
    Hyderabad and Sydney
    A very interesting an insightful and provacative discussion at the American Enterprise Institute.

    Christine Fair(a relatively pro-Pakistani think tanker) and Kamran Shafi (retd. armyman critical of the army) make the discussion that more interesting.

    Must watch video at the link below
    Military Reform in Pakistan: Will the Army Allow Politicians to Rule? - Foreign and Defense Policy - AEI


    About This Event

    Post-Event Summary
    Pakistan’s deep state, the military establishment and Inter-Services Intelligence are playing a double game with the United States and do not appear to have any intention of handing over power to the civilian government, a panel of experts concluded Wednesday at the American Enterprise Institute. Kamran Shafi of Pakistan’s Express Tribune drove home the distinction between Pakistan and the military-run “deep state.” He stressed that a vast majority of Pakistanis are against the concepts of jihad and nuclear proliferation and argued that the U.S. needs to engage the civilian government rather than the military establishment. The U.S. has failed to craft a Pakistan policy consistent with American goals in Afghanistan, asserted Georgetown University’s Christine Fair. Despite evidence that Pakistan has undermined U.S. interests and acted as a U.S. enemy, she said, Washington continues to placate the military establishment, undermining U.S. leverage. Eli Lake of Newsweek and The Daily Beast argued that the U.S. does have a strategy in Pakistan: funding, through the CIA, an alternative “deep state” within the Pakistani military that is sympathetic to U.S. goals and willing to collaborate on the fight against al-Qaida. The U.S. cannot disengage with Pakistan, emphasized AEI’s Thomas Donnelly. He argued that Washington needs to both recognize the fundamental difference in U.S.-Pakistan relations and develop a new set of carrots and sticks to incentivize Pakistan’s power brokers to act in line with U.S. interests. All panelists asserted South Asia’s vital importance to U.S. national security interests and argued for continued engagement, noting that there are no short-term solutions to the conundrum Pakistan presents.
    ---Kanishk Mishra

    Event Description
    Last week’s resignation of Pakistan’s ambassador to the United States and protests over a NATO air strike that killed 24 Pakistani soldiers have once again spotlighted the Pakistani army. How it responds to a weakened elected government in Islamabad and rising anti-U.S. sentiment on the streets will help determine both the tenor of U.S.-Pakistan relations and the nature of Pakistani democracy.

    How can the United States continue to cooperate with the military while strengthening Pakistan’s fledgling democracy? Do U.S. allies such as Chile, Indonesia and South Korea offer lessons on how to professionalize Pakistan’s military by getting it out of politics? What does the future hold for civil-military relations in the nuclear-armed country? A panel of experts discusses these important questions.

    Panelists:
    C. CHRISTINE FAIR, Georgetown University
    KAMRAN SHAFI, Express Tribune
    THOMAS DONNELLY, AEI
    ELI LAKE, Daily Beast, Newsweek

    Moderator:
    SADANAND DHUME, AEI
     
    W.G.Ewald likes this.
  2.  
  3. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,518
    Likes Received:
    1,378
    Location:
    Hyderabad and Sydney
    Indian journalist Aziz hanifa reporting from the US for rediff for the same event

    'Pak's relationship with India, better than its ties with US' - Rediff.com News

    With the most recent nosedive in United States-Pakistan relations in the aftermath of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation strike that killed 24 Pakistani soldiers, ironically, India-Pakistan relations seem to be on a more solid footing than the so-called US-Pakistan strategic partnership, said Thomas Donnelly, resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, who specialises in defence and security policy.

    Donnelly, who was a panelist on the AEI's seminar on 'Military reform in Pakistan: Will the army allow politicians to rule?' said, "Now it seems as if the India-Pakistan relationship is currently probably on better footing than US-Pakistan relationship."

    "Whether that is something that we can build upon over the long-term is a questionable thing," he said, but predicted, "trying to foster some sort of rapprochement, and clearly, the Indians aren't nearly as interested in keeping up the hostility of the past all that much."

    Donnelly, who heads the neo-conservative think-tank's Center for Defence Studies, said, "But again, particularly helping Pakistan to accommodate to new strategic facts -- India's rise, a persistent American presence in the region and likewise, trying to dissuade and discourage Pakistan from looking to outsiders, particularly the Chinese as the safety valve when things are going bad with us."

    He recalled, referring to Pakistan always describing China as its all-weather friend and implying the US is a fair-weather friend, "There was yet another attempted Pakistan-China love fest that included the singing of some romantic ballads, but mostly on the Pakistani side."

    Donnelly, a former policy group director and professional staffer on the House Armed Services Committee and erstwhile editor of the Armed Forces Journal, Army Times, and Defense News, argued that "a key to all of this is fundamentally finding a way to reform and to change the role of the Pakistani military plays in Pakistani society."

    But he acknowledged, "That's not something that we can do easily or from the outside," and noted that "it's often said, and not without some good reason that Pakistan is an army with a state rather than a state with an army."

    "That oversimplifies things but it elucidates a truth -- some of those cliches have a ring of truth to it," he said.

    Donnelly said, however, "Whether Pakistan is an enemy or friend is almost immaterial. The fact is we can either live with them as they are or live without them."

    Sadanand Dhume, resident fellow at AEI, and the South Asia policy analyst at the think-tank, who moderated the panel discussion, said 2011 has been "a particularly interesting year in terms of US-Pakistan relations and it seems to have been a year of many valleys and no peaks."

    Dhume, who is also a South Asia columnist for The Wall Street Journal, recalled that "the relationship began going downhill," first with the arrest of Central Investigation Agency operative Raymond Davis over the killing of two Pakistanis in Lahore, which created a major diplomatic incident, followed by of course, the Navy SEALS operation in the killing of Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad near Islamabad unbeknownst to the Pakistani military and most recently the NATO attack which killed 24 Pakistani soldiers.

    "This was preceded by the resignation of Pakistan's ambassador to the US Husain Haqqani under somewhat murky circumstances," he reminded the audience.
     
  4. agentperry

    agentperry Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,022
    Likes Received:
    678
    Location:
    delhi
    well. the actual rule-able area of pakistan is now less then what it was prior to WoT. the war led to extremist group taking over those areas which were earlier stable and under direct control of pakistani law
     
  5. lcatejas

    lcatejas Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    710
    Likes Received:
    255
    Location:
    Bharat
    Pakistan's Democracy..
    For the US, By the US, Of the US then
    For the Army, By the Army, Of the Army then
    For the Zardari, By the Zardari , Of the Zardari
    And Now For the China, By the China, Of the China
     
    W.G.Ewald likes this.
  6. sesha_maruthi27

    sesha_maruthi27 Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    3,884
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Location:
    Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh(INDIA)
    Nice to see and hear that the relationship between INDIA and PAKISTAN has developed. But pakistan needs to do more for a healthy relationship to continue.
     
  7. Nagraj

    Nagraj Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    254
    ROFLSOME :pound: :rofl: :confused::frusty:
     
  8. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,117
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    The US can expect anything of Pakistan and may make inroads into its organisations.

    But then, it is a weak argument that the US can do what they can in Pakistan.

    Pakistan can stand its ground.

    Sadly, they have sold their soul to the terrorists and to counterbalance has sold also to the US to salvage them and give them some respectability.

    So, why blame the US?

    And why bother what the US is doing in Afghanistan or elsewhere?
     
  9. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,687
    Likes Received:
    2,357
    Brothers,
    The cog between US Pakistan relations is India as good as the cog between India Pakistan has always been and is still USA. What happens if India Pakistan realtions remove the common cog (USA). It is unfortunate but true that another cog China butts in.

    The Mogul desire persists ? Control India. That is today Saud's desire and Shia desire too. India is still under difficult conditions.. !!
     

Share This Page