Discussion in 'Military Aviation' started by Daredevil, Aug 24, 2012.
Apparently, MIG-29 suffers from short legs. It is only worth as a point defence aircraft.
which version of mig29 and f16 are mentioned here ?
Mig-29 is more versatile , better in dog fight.
rest depend on which version has which radars and load capacity ....
can any memeber tel which Mig-29 of india and paki F-16 is better and what role they played in kargil war???
Mig-29A vs the F-16 Block 52.
Newer Mig-29s like Mig-29K have more fuel and more fuel efficient engines with greater T/W ratio.
Mig-29A has 3.3 tons of fuel and the engines deliver 8.1 tons of thrust. The Mig-29K has 4.5 tons of fuel and engine delivers 9 tons of thrust. Newer engine gives 9.3 tons of thrust.
Comparing Bulgarian Migs with USAF F-16s is not correct. All the deficiencies that were pointed out in the article, including the AoA limitations and the horizontal stab movements have been removed due to the new digital fly by wire system compared to the Bulgarian Migs analog systems.
MiG-29s are scary beasts to deal with close in. The Fulcrum excels in both high-speed and low-speed fights, especially in turning battles on their opponents....In kargil war our Fulcrums locked on PAF F-16's while escorting our M2K's but did not shot them down as it would have resulted in full scale war...F-16's were lacking in BVR so they were afraid of our Fulcrums and PAF decided to keep them away from the range of Fulcrums...
Today PAF F-16 Block 52's are more capable than our Fulcrums due to advance electronics, AIM-120 C5, JDAM, but we are trying to catch up with them by upgrading our Fulcrums and in the form of naval MIG-29 K. But still F-16 Block 52 will be slightly better than them I think.
can't we counter Su-30 MKI or Tejas
not tejas---sukhoi is our answer ,
devil501, F-16 block 52 is far ahead in agility, technology, weapons systems in comparison of our LCA. In my opinion LCA pilot has to be lucky to have kill over block 52.
MKI will have an advantage over PAF block 52 due to radar range (this is the key strength of our MKI), high maneuverability, speed, more AA missiles etc....so if both MKI and F-16 block 52 are going against each other where AWACS from both side is absent then I will say that F-16 Block 52 is at disadvantage and will be the at the risk of receiving FIRST SHOT from MKI.
In the real world the Mig 29 has a kill ratio 10:28 and the F16 about a 100 to 5. you could compare that to the F15 which is 104:0. Lopsided odds like this of american equipment against Russian and soviet equipment has been going on for 50 years until their excuse making became habit to the point they instinctively think up excuses when they should instead fixate on the how to reach their goals.
This kill ratio also depends on the enemy faced, amongs many things listed by you. Many of the kills of F 16 would be against the Iraqi Migs and Libyan Migs by USAF
Think most of them was by Israel. USAF & IAF have 9:0 kill ratio against MiG.-29's
Heres a A pretty good place for information on aerial kills is -http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/index.shtml
On the left side of the page kills are listed by theater of operations.
Modern Air-to-Air & Air-to-Ground kill record thread if you want to sort out Mig 29 kills.
U.S. F-15 Eagle Kill Records:
5 Iraqi Mig-29 Fulcrums
7 Iraqi Mirage F-1's
8 Iraqi Mig-23's
2 Iraqi Mig-21's
1 Iraqi ll-76
2 Iraqi SU-25 Frogfoots
3 Iarqi SU-7/17
1 Iraqi MI-24 Hind
2 Iraqi SU-22 Fitters
2 Iraqi MIG-25 Foxbats
4 Serbian Mig-29 Fulcrums
1 Afghan MI-24 Hind (F-15E)
2 U.S. UH-60 Blackhawks (fratricide)
Israeli F-15 kill records:
80-92 Mig-21 Fishbeds
several MIG-25 Foxbats
Royal Saudi Air Force F-15 kill records:
2 Iranian F-4E Phantoms
2 Iraqi F-1 Mirages
1 Iraqi Mig-25
Japanese F-15 kill record:
1 Japanese F-15J (accidental shooting by another Japanese F-15J)
U.S. F/A-18C Hornet kill record:
2 Mig-21 Fishbeds
U.S. F-14 Tomcat kill records:
2 Libyan SU-22 Fitters
2 Libyan Mig-23 Floggers
1 Iraqi MI-8 Hip
Iranian F-14 Tomcat kill record:
U.S. F-16 Fighting Falcon kill records:
1 Iraqi Mig-29 or Mig-23
1 Serbian Mig-29
4 Serbian Soko G-4 Super Galebs
1 Iraqi Mig-25 (first AMRAAM kill)
Israel F-16 kill records:
2 Syrian MI-8 Hips
44 Syrian Migs (mostly Floggers)
Dutch F-16 kill record:
1 Serbian Mig-29
PAF F-16 kill records:
2 Russian SU-22 Fitters
8 Afghan Aircrafts
1 PAF F-16 (fratricide)
U.S. A-10 Warthog kill record (tanks and aircrafts):
2 Iraqi Mi-8 Hips
850 + Iraqi T-72 MBTs, T-62 MBTs, & T-55 MBTs
300 Iraqi APCs
U.K AV-8A Sea Harrier kills in the Falkland War:
1 C-130 Hercules
1 Mirage III
9 Mirage V's
6 A-4 Skyhawks
Iraqi MIG-25PD kill record:
1 U.S. Navy F/A-18C Hornet
Ethiopian SU-27 kill record:
4 Eritrean MiG-29s
Eritrean MiG-29 kill record:
1 Ethiopian Mig-21
Russian MIG-29 Fulcrum kill record:
1 Afghan SU-22 Fitter
Iraqi Mig-21 kill record:
1 Iranian F-14 Tomcat
Other Iranian/Kuwait aircrafts?
Indian Mig-21 kill record:
4 PAF F-104 Starfighters
Globally the only country to have successfully fought battles with Russian equipment against American equipment is India, and we have emerged better off.
So the kind of skill levels of the individuals and preparedness also count.
Being three times the size does not hurt either.
Goes both ways. The exception wold be Israel, but then I personally believe that the the Arabs in all the wars were over confident on sheer numbers. they never focussed on the kind of training the Israeli's do.
Personally never been a fan of Mig 29, in it's earlier avatar gave lot of sleepless nights to IAF and HAL.
The Arabs just had numbers, no training or even the basic skills to use what they have. I have no idea what they were thinking at the time. Israel on the other hand, wasn't extraordinary. They did what other top countries regularly did. Training, exercises, simulations etc along with a decent plan of action.
As for the Americans, it was really a case of a 25 year old heavy weight boxer beating up a 6 year old blindfolded cripple. Nothing extraordinary there either.
More excuses, the Arabs had Russian advisors and trainers. Some of the Migs were actually flowen by the Russians against Israel. The Russians did not just give the planes to the Arabs and say go get them....They backed them up with SAMS , technical support and training. At the time of the Gulf war the Iraq military was on par with that of India. At the present time if you combined the Air Power of China, Russia and India it would not equal that of the USA. in quanity, much less quality.
as if there were no US help to Israel...
also when US went to war with Iraq...much of Iraq army was in ruins....they had fought Iran for nearly a decade so comparing them with India is useless...
In what? Geography or Fleet Size?
Again in what? Number of airframes, logistics and infrastructures, training or number of well trained pilots?
No arguments here.
Separate names with a comma.