Mig-27 and Mig-21 to be phased out in 2017

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by sathya, Oct 2, 2012.

  1. sathya

    sathya Regular Member

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    Concerned over recurring problems in MiG-27 combat aircraft engines, Indian Air Force is planning to phase out these Russian-origin planes by 2017.

    IAF operates about 80 (four squadrons) of these aircraft in its fleet and due to the recurring problems in their engines, it had to ground all of them after a crash about two years ago.

    “We are planning to phase out the MiG-27s, of which around 80 are still in service, by the year 2017,” senior IAF officials said.

    IAF has deployed two squadrons each of the aircraft in Jodhpur in Rajasthan and Kalaikunda in West Bengal at present.

    About two years, a study was conducted to check the problems in the engines of the aircraft and it was found that the R-29s engines have developed some defect which was very difficult to be corrected, they said.

    After the report, IAF took a considered decision about retiring these aircraft from operational service in a phased manner, the officials said.

    “The first to be phased out would be the two squadrons based in Kalaikunda and then by 2017, the remaining two deployed in Jodhpur would also be on their way out of the force,” they said.

    The squadrons based in Jodhpur had undergone upgrades at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited recently and that is why they have more life left in them, the officials said.

    IAF is also planning to phase out the crash-prone MiG-21 combat aircraft around the same timeframe. MiG-23 fighter and bomber aircraft which were inducted in the 1980s have already been phased out.


    Mig-27 to be phased out along with Mig-21 in 2017 : IAF | idrw.org
     
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  3. mikhail

    mikhail Senior Member Senior Member

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    i think the current no. of mig-27 in the IAF is more than 100.so it will seriously deplete the squadron strength of the IAF if these aircrafts are retired within 2017!only if DRDO start to mass produce LCA then only can we retire those migs by 2020 but it would be impossible to replace them all by 2017.
     
  4. Vishwarupa

    Vishwarupa Senior Member Senior Member

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    every thing is impossible with IAF, induction is almost impossible & same with phase out....all wrong planning & nothing is practical with IAF.

    Hope they correct moving forward.
     
  5. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    The IAF official says 80 odd, so we can believe that figure.

    Maybe IAF is willing to do it early because the Rafale deal may have progressed well enough for them to consider it. All 4 squadrons can very well be replaced with Rafale and MKIs. IAF is already placing MKIs in Jodhpur.

    I always thought the last 2 squadrons will be replaced by 2025, but we know good things are happening.
     
  6. drkrn

    drkrn Senior Member Senior Member

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    is it logical to keep only high and fighters alone.i mean should we posses some low end fighters too.

    can some one tell importance of su-mk30i in high altitude warfare
     
  7. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Why are we retiring mig-27s ? Why to use rafale's instead of 27s ? They are cheap airframes and with Saturn al-31 they can be made useful for a couple of more decades. Why to spend money on Rafales for mundane, low-end tasks ?
     
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  8. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    MIG-27 are not updated with AL-31, MIG-27 carry less payload lack up-to date defensive suit..

    There design and tactics is out dated..

     
  9. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    :russia::troll:
     
  10. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    so no Fighter-Bombers any more in service!!!!!!1
     
  11. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    The payload and defensive suite, and the design and tactics of CAS/ground attacck crafts shouldn't be compared with those of MMRCA or Air Superiority of craft.

    I didn't know the the latest design and tactics dictate we use Rafale's for CAS ? that doesn't make a lot of sense. Mig-27 is still one of the best CAS crafts around.


    Mig-27 can be updated with Al-31
    Here is a pic [​IMG]
     
  12. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    MRCA are Multi-role fighters they are not only limited to Air-superiority but CAS, CAP, SEAD and other..

    Rafale CAS capability proved in Libya..

    Indeed MIG-27 can be updated with AL-31 but during Upgrade it was excluded..

     
  13. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    The problem with Mig-27 is that its become old. The youngest airframe was inducted in 1996, that's 16 years. The oldest airframe was in 1984, that's 28 years old. Considering it is old Soviet technology, saying goodbye is a better option. No need to push our luck like what we did with the Mig-21s.

    Jaguars are good for CAS and Rafale will better it.

    Btw, if you check the pic of the Mig-27 with the AL-31, you will see the tricolour on it. India seems to have been involved. It may have been rejected considering IAF has plans to discard the aircraft.

    Helicopters have become really good for CAS. If the Army really requires a dedicated CAS aircraft then we may end up buying the new 5th gen fighter that the Russians are cooking up. I don't know if we will have the manpower for a new project beyond PAKFA, LCA, AURA and AMCA.
     
  14. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    You don't get the point. Rafale maybe a good CAS craft but that doesn't mean you use a 150million$ cutting edge craft for CAS. Europeans are forced to use because they don't have multiple crafts. We have the luxury of using other jets.
    ===

    I am breaking up your posts.

    The point you are making is relevant, Mig-27 is old. I agree. But we can always upgrade them, and if outfitted with Al-31, they'll soldier on.

    ====

    Same point as KB. Why to use Rafale as a CAS ?

    ==


    When it arrives, then retire mig-27s and jags.
     
  15. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    LCA mk1 is a good replacement for the Mig 27

    This is a good news for LCA mk1
     
  16. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    ^^ how and why ?
     
  17. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Looking at that pic, I am pretty sure IAF considered it and decided to let it go. Even I was of the opinion that the last 2 squadrons will be used at least until 2020-25.

    Anyway maintaining such old aircraft is much more expensive than maintaining something like Rafale.

    Rafale's sensors allows it to do things the Mig-27 can only dream of. The LGBs are accurate to the metre and Rafale's demonstrated excellent multi target capability over Libya where multiple targets were destroyed by one aircraft in a single sortie. Apart from that while carrying 6 Hammers, 4 Mica and 2 drop tanks, Rafales managed 6 hour missions.

    Thunder at 100 feet: Flying France's Rafale Superfighter | NDTV.com

    Never heard before sortie rates,

    Rafale News: Libya, Rafale stats
    There is no such thing as mundane or low end task. All roles have very high risks, especially CAS and strike roles where the risk is the highest. USAF and VVS prefer to use armoured aircraft like A-10 or Su-25, apart from regular aircraft. I don't know why we don't have such a requirement.

    Jags won't be retired. They will fly until AMCA is ready to replace it. Rafales will replace Mig-27s.

    It is unfortunate that Mig-27s will be phased out before Rafale's come in, but IAF believes the ALH Rudra, Jaguars and LCH will fill in the void until Rafales are in operation at full force.
     
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  18. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    IAF projected from long ago to phase out these birds, Main reason to have similar kind and less variety of Aircraft which reduce loge-tic burden and Maintenance cost..

    During MIG-27 purchase, CAS is mainly consider:

    1. Rocket & Cannon strafing against Armour
    2. Low altitude bombing against Run ways and Enemy in open
    3. Dumb bomb from high altitude against Infrastructure..

    Which is now changed to absolute High altitude bombing, Precession guided attacks against all kind of targets..

    Also Rafale is very expensive Aircraft but it is design to deal with today`s latest threads in both EW also AAA/SAM unlike MIG-27 cannot be updated to this level of sophistication..
     
  19. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    IAF will use Attack Helicopters; Jaguars ; LCA mk1/ LCA mk2 for CAS post Mig 27 era

    Even upgraded Mirage 2000 and Mig 29 can be used for Ground Attack roles
     
  20. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    All this talk of using AL 31 for Mig 27 is NONSENSE

    Just because one aircraft has been somehow fitted with AL 31 DOES NOT
    mean that such an exercise is worth the time money and efforts spent on it

    How can you put an entirely NEW engine in an airframe without doing extensive RE WIRING

    Has anybody calculated the dimensions of the TWO engines and the airframe
    before suggesting such an refit
     
  21. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Basic CAS is still a role in which Mig-27 excels and no point in using Rafale for them.

    And by retiring Mig-27 before Rafales enter in significant numbers we are seriously hampering our capabilities.
     

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