Miffed Russia may stop arms sale to India

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by AVERAGE INDIAN, Apr 25, 2013.

  1. AVERAGE INDIAN

    AVERAGE INDIAN EXORCIST Senior Member

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    Russia has questioned New Delhi’s fairness and transparency in awarding multi-billion dollar military contracts, and warned that it may have to reconsider doing business with India.

    “We know what gimmicks are used to manipulate deals,” Russian ambassador to India Alexander Kadakin told HT in an exclusive interview, adding that his country may not bid for Indian military tenders in the future. “Sometimes, terms of tenders are crafted specifically to get the required results.”


    The statement comes in the wake of Russia losing ground in the Indian arms market in the past few years, with international rivals winning tenders to supply modern fighter jets, mid-air refuellers, heavy-lift helicopters and attack choppers to the Indian military.

    Russia’s current defence portfolio in India is worth $20 billion ( Rs. 1,08,000 crore).

    But such outcomes have weakened the standing of India’s oldest and largest arms supplier.

    Israel, the second largest defence supplier to India, has bagged business worth more than $10 billion ( Rs. 54,000 cr) in the past 10-12 years. The US, currently at number three, could overtake Israel if India chooses to place some follow-on orders for platforms already contracted.

    Instead of tenders, Russia now wants to sell military equipment to India directly through government-to-government deals, Kadakin said.

    India has ordered equipment worth $8 billion ( Rs. 43,200 crore) from the US in the past five years through Washington’s foreign military sales programme, a government-to-government method for selling US-built platforms.

    “If we emerge number two, it doesn’t mean our platform is any worse. But it sends out that impression and causes damage to our reputation,” Kadakin said. He added that Russia had stood by India when strictest sanctions were imposed on the country after it conducted nuclear tests.

    Kadakin acknowledged that India, being “an emerging superpower”, had the right to build defence ties with other countries, but was quick to point out that unlike “some newly-acquired partners”, Russia had never hesitated to transfer the most sensitive defence technologies to India.

    “Name a country that will lease you a nuclear submarine. Will the Americans, the British or the French lease you such a platform?” Kadakin asked, referring to the Akula-II nuclear-powered attack submarine leased to India by Russia last year. “This is the unique character of our privileged strategic partnership. Your people have to realise this.”

    Miffed Russia may stop arms sale to India - Hindustan Times
     
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  3. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    +1

    Has Russia (n)ever benefited from similar "crafty" tenders?
     
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  4. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    Good it will end business of many pimps and eventually we will start making arms at home.
     
  5. Patriot

    Patriot Senior Member Senior Member

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    Now they are getting the same taste of manipulation what they have been enjoying.
     
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  6. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    This interview follows on the heels of two very interesting stories going on

    1. Problems in the deal with Dassault
    2. Russian offer for MIG 35

    Is it me or just my conspiracy theory....
     
  7. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    No its not CT, add issue with China into it as well.

    I don't think his rants are going to shiver anyone in secretariats.
     
  8. Maharana

    Maharana Regular Member

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    First, Mr. Ambassador has to realise that Russia simply cannot afford to stop selling arms to its single largest defense customer.
    We pump-in more money, in the Russian defense industry, than any other country in the world and that has been a major factor (if not 'the' major factor) in reviving the defense industry of Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Had we put so much money in the economy of Israel, the results would have been very different.

    Two, Mr. Ambassador has to realise that the deals have to conclude in the given time-frame and in the pre-determined price. INS Vikramaditya deal is just the tip of the iceberg.


    And most of the times when contracts have been awarded to Russia, there was not even a tendering process. Russia was straight away given the deal without considering other players in the field but I don't see that you would complain about that Mr. Ambassador, would you?

    Yes sir and that is why Russia is still the largest defense partner of India. We haven't been as biased towards any other country as we have been towards Russia in many ways that frustrates our other suppliers too.

    Agreed. That is why we are into joint development with your country Sir which will benefit not just us but you as well. PAK-FA/ FGFA and BrahMos would be of use to you also with us sharing half of the development cost.

    Its interesting that he mentioned that "India, being 'an emerging superpower', had the right to build defence ties with other countries". He understands that an emerging superpower has to maintain defense relations with most of the countries in the world and when his country was a superpower, it supplied even Nuclear blueprints to China at the time of Mao which then made its way into Pakistan, and that makes two of our only adversaries, nuclear powers.

    Come on Mr. Ambassador, that submarine was lying as junk for so long. We gave you the money to complete it, we gave you the money so that we can operate it and when we'll be done using it after 10 years, you'll be operating it (something that has been completed from the money of Indian Taxpayers), and if we buy it, we'll again be paying you for that.

    Given that fact, Russia cannot expect to be the only defense supplier to India as India understands why Sukhois, Kilos, Migs, S-400s, 117S engines, IL-476, IL-78s, Lada/ Amur, RD-93s etc. make its way into China. We don't need to go into details how Russians are comfortable with Chinese copying that technology and selling the ripped-off platforms eventually to Pakistan.

    I admit that no other country would lease a Nuclear Submarine and we understand that Russia has been a special partner for India, but both India and Russia have carried up that partnership equally for many years. Now you cannot redefine this special partnership into, "BUY FROM ONLY US OTHERWISE DON'T BUY FROM US AT ALL."
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013
  9. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Seriously do you threaten your customer with stopping supplies when the customer is already looking elsewhere or do you introspect and see where your quality is heading, where your supply and support structure is, after sales is.

    No doubt Russia has supported India in tough times but India paid for it all. It was not free. Who will lease a nuke sub? Well we asked you gave we paid. If you had said no, we'd have just carried on. No one is obliging anyone here. That is what business is all about.

    Getting emotional and sentimental really does not help in business these days where the customer has the money and is willing to spend it on the best.

    Its really funny that Russia threatens India and refuses to look inwards.
     
  10. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    Faced with a unreliable supplier ( in recent times) and a bumbling DRDO, it has been a wise decision by the Government to source force multipliers from the US. These are cutting edge technologies which we would not have got from the Russians.
     
  11. U Sun Dar

    U Sun Dar Regular Member

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    It'll Never happen...Russians are not fools Ban arms Supply to india.....:confused:
     
  12. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    It's a free for all season for everyone to threaten India one way or the other thanks to the perception/fact that we can be bullied,threatened and pushed over
     
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  13. Patriot

    Patriot Senior Member Senior Member

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    Which cutting edge technology USA has given us?

    Stripped down force multiplier surveillance transport etc is OK but when it comes to weapons systems USA is highly unreliable pain in bums.
     
  14. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    Time someone from the MoD said, it is Russia's free will! Matter of hours before a new ambassador gets appointed and this gentleman goes home packing, call their bluff on their face!

    Time India stopped taking nonsense.
     
  15. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    Who gave you the Raytheon weapons locating radar.

    The P8I, C 130 J and C 17 are the best available in the market.

    They are selling systems in the market and if you agree to their terms then you get the top of the shelf and if you negotiate then you get what you get in agreement.
     
  16. Patriot

    Patriot Senior Member Senior Member

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    We have alrady developed our own WLR. These transporters are not weapon systems that too only stripped down versions & limited in capability and we have paid them heavily for that. No technolgy has been transferred from US forget "Cutting Edge". If we expect cutting edge weapon [ w/o technology] system from US even that comes with strings attached to balls.
     
  17. Patriot

    Patriot Senior Member Senior Member

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    We have become their kept/whore to get what we want , as what you talking about their terms. Are we ready to become one??
     
  18. agentperry

    agentperry Senior Member Senior Member

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    its a turbulent phase. india shouldnt lose resurgent russia which is now emerging as sole authority in CIS and stronger and more anti india in SCO. whereas current superpower usa is also on the other side wanting india to be more involved with it.

    india should respect the old ties with russia and its solidarity in the past where as usa should be given a chance to be a better ally of india after all that will definitely stop good quality arms going in for pakistanis.

    the fgfa and novator scheme seems to be fine where india can pump in money to starving russia and make bear somewhat happy, on the other hand usa can be given the tenders for 1. buying arms of better quality and 2. stoping the pakistanis doing the same
     
  19. arya

    arya Senior Member Senior Member

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    well we have respect for them but cant you see what is cooking behind the door . why Russia helped china against India , why they delayed our AC .

    a well planed .
     
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  20. Patriot

    Patriot Senior Member Senior Member

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    Are we here to please everybody at cost of our interests!! as if our a$$ is for free. It all goes by interest, if we do not enable ourself & develop capabilities then we shall keep pleasing everybody.
     
  21. agentperry

    agentperry Senior Member Senior Member

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    ok dont do so. go on with tejas.
    this will be the case till our own industry is not standing tall and making cutting edge fighters.

    ideally such pampering and romanticizing is done with civil and trade deals but india is not in a state to fulfill its need for defense equipments completely we go through such deals.
     

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