Maya Kodnani gets 28 years over role in deadly Gujarat riots

[Oracle]

I was also not talking about Gujjus, I was talking about Modi.He was chosen by a peaceful community twice and why ?? And how can you blame Modi for defeat of BJP in LS elections twice ??? I really don't understand what are you up to here.

It's not me who said that Modi was responsible for the defeat of BJP, twice. Some noted journalists said that, and I agree with them.

I know you don't like him, You HAVE TO say it that he's good admin but you don't like him from the apex of your heart.

Ofcourse you don't know. I said before, I like him as an Administrator. If he becomes PM, then this Country has chances of gaining rapid economic progress. But then again, I have my doubts, as Congress will be paying back to BJP in the same coin they are getting paid now. Leaders, good or bad, in today's age of coalition politics can do nothing. No opposition is constructive in India. BJP is not one right now, nor would Congress be if BJP led NDA comes to power in 2014. Things apart, I don't see any leader in BJP right now who can lead this Country. When election time comes, you'd be witness to many allies of BJP publicly rebuking BJP, if NM is portrayed as the PM candidate. This has already begun with Nitish Kumar.

I'm not talking about discussion.I'm asking to you should Tarun Gogoi be hanged because he failed to control riots there as you conveniently said this about Modi ???Are Tarun Gogoi's hands stained with blood ??? Even still we hear about the ongoing killing there it means Tarun Gogoi failed miserably even still he can't control the law and order in assam,

Actually, I didn't say it. Please quote the post where I said it.

Now let's come back to Tarun Gogoi, but let me add one more point to it. All of NM supporters have the habit of derailing threads, like say you're asking me about Tarun Gogoi, someone else asking about Sikh Riots, Kashmiri Pandits and so on - these are done so that the thread is derailed and the context is lost, so that people instead of talking on the subject, which is the riots in Gujarat start talking about other issues. Clever. I don't mind if you invite me to a Sikh riots thread, I will gladly participate.

As about Gogoi, yes he is responsible and he should get the harshest sentence available under law. Sentenced to death or life term is for the Courts to decide. I'll be cheering for both. But again, just as NM, he is also a leader, and would escape the noose. It's the foot soldiers who pay the price.

 

[A chauhan]

If it was danger for Gujarat then it was a danger for other states too ! but I don't see any other state deploying police foqce in sufficient numbers on 2002, as it is always hard for govt to predict the places of possible riots, and the same condition was in Gujarat hudreds of places are there where Hindu-Muslims live together, and also the insufficient number of police affected the peace restoration process. While IA came lately which was called earlier, IMO poorly trained and equiped police force can not deal with any Hindu-Muslim riot only Army can, police is not for fighting with rioters who are out for killing.

 

[Oracle]

If it was danger for Gujarat then it was a danger for other states too ! but I don't see any other state deploying police foqce in sufficient numbers on 2002, as it is always hard for govt to predict the places of possible riots, and the same condition was in Gujarat hudreds of places are there where Hindu-Muslims live together, and also the insufficient number of police affected the peace restoration process. While IA came lately which was called earlier, IMO poorly trained and equiped police force can not deal with any Hindu-Muslim riot only Army can, police is not for fighting with rioters who are out for killing.

It's true and hey Assam CM did call in Army, even then riots could not be fully controlled. It's all political gain.

 

[VIP]

It's not me who said that Modi was responsible for the defeat of BJP, twice. Some noted journalists said that, and I agree with them.



Ofcourse you don't know. I said before, I like him as an Administrator. If he becomes PM, then this Country has chances of gaining rapid economic progress. But then again, I have my doubts, as Congress will be paying back to BJP in the same coin they are getting paid now. Leaders, good or bad, in today's age of coalition politics can do nothing. No opposition is constructive in India. BJP is not one right now, nor would Congress be if BJP led NDA comes to power in 2014. Things apart, I don't see any leader in BJP right now who can lead this Country. When election time comes, you'd be witness to many allies of BJP publicly rebuking BJP, if NM is portrayed as the PM candidate. This has already begun with Nitish Kumar.



Actually, I didn't say it. Please quote the post where I said it.

Now let's come back to Tarun Gogoi, but let me add one more point to it. All of NM supporters have the habit of derailing threads, like say you're asking me about Tarun Gogoi, someone else asking about Sikh Riots, Kashmiri Pandits and so on - these are done so that the thread is derailed and the context is lost, so that people instead of talking on the subject, which is the riots in Gujarat start talking about other issues. Clever. I don't mind if you invite me to a Sikh riots thread, I will gladly participate.

As about Gogoi, yes he is responsible and he should get the harshest sentence available under law. Sentenced to death or life term is for the Courts to decide. I'll be cheering for both. But again, just as NM, he is also a leader, and would escape the noose. It's the foot soldiers who pay the price.

Well, some says it's due to LKA.

You know, personally I don't want modi to be PM, if he becomes PM then who'll rule Gujarat ??

Look, I picked up topic in middle of arguments so I think I should get back on NM.As you know nobody knows he has directed this riots or not.And frankly as I asked you some questions before in this thread, if you know the ground reality, than you'll understand why riots actually happened and what was the mentality of people after that Train Burning incidence happened. Plus why there's not a single incidence of community clash after 2002.

 

[nrj]

VHP coming out in support of Kodnani tells a lot of things. Interesting times ahead.

Sent via Tapatalk from a galaxy far far away

 

[parijataka]

/\/\/\

VHP/Togadia is very anti-Modi for his allegedly being anti-Hindu such as not doing enough for cow protection, demolishing Hindu temples for being unauthorised/road widening, etc.

 

[Ray]

The work line I'm in, I'm satisfied in Bangalore.

The omission and commission apart in Gujarat, it is far better than Bangalore.

I have been to both areas including the hinterland of both States.

Gujarat is more organised, neat and clean than most places I have visited. I had great apprehensions when I went there, but I returned with a different opinion.

I also saw Modi's residence from the outside. I thought it would be bristling with gun toting NSG and the like. There again was a surprise. It appeared to be a peaceful and idyllic affair!

Akshardham was too sanitised looking and too organised an affair. And they had a souvenir shop! The real Gujarati business acumen at play.

The roads and highways were super.

**********************

On the issue of riots, and I have been employed in many, it has always been a huge strain on the psychology of the soldier and the commander. It is not easy to pull the trigger on your own people, even if they behave in the most deranged manner.

Fortunately, we have drills that we all practice during our training. And so the action is mechanical. And even so, the order to shoot, after warning, is heart wrenching and even horrifying. And yet it is done with total calmness, both in mind and physically attribute. Only minimum force can be used.

One should never forget that one does not know how the mob shall react thereafter.

If riots could be controlled easily, then there would not be the mayhem that India saw during the Independence.

 

[Ray]

VHP coming out in support of Kodnani tells a lot of things. Interesting times ahead.

Sent via Tapatalk from a galaxy far far away

It makes no difference to the verdict.

The Law shall prevail over all the antics that some organisations may resort to!

Assam CM did call in Army even then riots could not be fully controlled

The Assam CM had been forewarned long ago.

He behaved like the ostrich, hoping the that bad dream will pass over and it would not take place on his watch!

Calling in the Army and doing flag marches alone cannot stop stray cases of rioting.

When the situation is beyond the control of the Police and Paramilitary and the Army is patrolling, A District Magistrate (DM) is to be with each column.

When the situation warrants Army positive action i.e. force, the DM signs a requisition slip and hands over the situation to the Army, then and then alone can the Army take action as deemed necessary and fit.

Most of the time, not enough DMs are available to accompany the Army columns. And that is one of the lacunae of the system of IS.

 

[Oracle]

The omission and commission apart in Gujarat, it is far better than Bangalore.

I have been to both areas including the hinterland of both States.

Gujarat is more organised, neat and clean than most places I have visited. I had great apprehensions when I went there, but I returned with a different opinion.

I also saw Modi's residence from the outside. I thought it would be bristling with gun toting NSG and the like. There again was a surprise. It appeared to be a peaceful and idyllic affair!

Akshardham was too sanitised looking and too organised an affair. And they had a souvenir shop! The real Gujarati business acumen at play.

The roads and highways were super.

Sir, that statement was put forward from a career oriented POV. Even with the Gujarat growth story continuing, it would need atleast 2 more decades to catch up with the IT & ITeS industry in Bangalore. The compensation offered in Bangalore is highest in IT & ITeS sector amongst all other cities in India. Infrastructure does matter, but given the rate of job creation, I would prefer the economics of employment over anything else. In here, I have contacts, some high profile, can arrange a job for myself in a week, if situation demands, and I am talking about this time, recession.

From a tourist POV, I don't see any reason why I should visit Gujarat. Next time I take a week off, I'll probably chill out with my friends in Mokukchang or the white beaches of Lakshadweep. As about cleanliness, NE would beat any state of India in that, except ofcourse some parts of Guwahati, Silchar & Karimganj i.e. largely Assam.

Amongst religious places, I only visit Kachakanti and Kamakhya. I like to keep my love for a higher power within my heart and inside my home. You know which God/Goddess I pray to.

**********************

On the issue of riots, and I have been employed in many, it has always been a huge strain on the psychology of the soldier and the commander. It is not easy to pull the trigger on your own people, even if they behave in the most deranged manner.

Fortunately, we have drills that we all practice during our training. And so the action is mechanical. And even so, the order to shoot, after warning, is heart wrenching and even horrifying. Only minimum force can be used.

One should never forget that one does not know how the mob shall react thereafter.

If riots could be controlled easily, then there would not be the mayhem that India saw during the Independence.

That I cannot speak about. You were a soldier, you have seen battles and sure killing takes a toll on human psychology. But when it comes to riots and rioters, I have no sympathy for those involved in arson, rape, looting and killing. The Government should deal with it firmly. How it does that is another issue, and I won't be sad if some of those rioters are shot down to control it from spreading it to other parts. If I participate in a riot, I'd expect nonetheless.

As about riots during partition, I don't know much, but I think the police and army was not an organised bunch in that time, as it is now. Just my thought.

 

[A chauhan]

The most unfortunate thing in any riot is that rioters or fanatics kill innocents only, rioters wander target areas in search of their pray while their pray does the same , so women and kids who stay in home easily become victims.

 

[Oracle]

The Assam CM had been forewarned long ago.

He behaved like the ostrich, hoping the that bad dream will pass over and it would not take place on his watch!

Calling in the Army and doing flag marches alone cannot stop stray cases of rioting.

When the situation is beyond the control of the Police and Paramilitary and the Army is patrolling, A District Magistrate (DM) is to be with each column.

When the situation warrants Army positive action i.e. force, the DM signs a requisition slip and hands over the situation to the Army, then and then alone can the Army take action as deemed necessary and fit.

Most of the time, not enough DMs are available to accompany the Army columns. And that is one of the lacunae of the system of IS.

You are right. And we did discuss it in some other thread about the Bodo issue. These are things that benefit some people. As I said before, there is always someone to gain from someone else's miseries.

There was a rumor that during the height of militancy in Assam and NE as a whole, KPS Gill was requested to take charge of Assam to contain the situation. Rumor has it that KPS Gill demanded the control of all 7 NE states. His apparent reasoning was, if COIN ops were done against terrorists in Assam, they would move through the jungles into Mizoram or Nagaland, where he would have no jurisdiction. He was bluntly turned down. Someone had to gain from this episode.

 

[Oracle]

The most unfortunate thing in any riot is that rioters or fanatics kill innocents only, rioters wander target areas in search of their pray while their pray does the same , so women and kids who stay in home easily become victims.

Also add to it, the poor people. People who live in high rise apartments are not affected, and these are upper middle class people I'm talking about, not rich ones.

 

[Ray]

One has to visit Assam, especially the countryside.

It is verdant, lush green and ever so tranquil.

One falls in love with the landscape and hope that it sort of grows on you so that you never forget the peace and beauty!

One cannot ever feel that it can have such violence!

 

[KS]

Modi is on record saying, on the face of Digvijay singh (who was the CM of MP during the riots) that he urgently and immediately requested additional police force from the three surrounding congress ruled states - MH, MP and RJ for controlling the riots as Gujarat did not have enough police force to deal with the riots. Guess what ? the request was rejected.

And it is no secret that COngress men at the local level also were indulging in the riots and it cannot be forgotten that many of the convicted in the Godhra trian burning case were Congress men and one was even the area head of it.

Congress from the beginning wanted Gujrat to burn so that they can play the secular card and get back in power. What they miscalculated was the Gujarati's HIndu's reaction and his firm siding up with Modi in the electoral battlefield. Their thought was the "slogan of secularism" would melt the Gujarati hindooo's heart as much as the other politically correct HIndu eslewhere and it would rain votes from both sides - Muslims by playing their saviour and from the Hindus by appealing to their political correctness. Guess what, they got it shoved by the Gujarati Hindu.

 

[Ray]

Let us not bring in Digvijay Singh.

He is scum and his type is the cause why India burns and gets divided!

Political agenda without facts. solely aimed to inflame and divide.

He must have seen this parents wedding!

A regional brigand given respectability claiming to be a Raja.

But then there was also a Raja in 2G.

 

[Ray]

Digvijay Singh was born in the Raghogarh royal principality. He hails from Rajput background.

Raghogarh-Vijaypur is a city and a municipality in Guna district in the Indian state of Madhya Pradesh.

As of 2001 India census[1], Raghogarh-Vijaypur had a population of 49,193. Males constitute 52% of the population and females 48%. Raghogarh-Vijaypur has an average literacy rate of 58%, lower than the national average of 59.5%: male literacy is 67%, and female literacy is 44%. In Raghogarh-Vijaypur, 18% of the population is under 6 years of age.

Why even think that this idiot from a mere principality should hold our attention!

In Rajasthan, or MP or even UP, every Rajput claims to be a Raja or a Thakur or related to this King or that King!

Have a look at most of these so called Raias. Shorn of their regalia, they all look as if they are your neighbourhood pansari chap! And there are many Marwaris in Calcutta who runs shops and look like these so called Rajas!

It is time to not take all this self aggrandising to be worth the claim that is made!

Let us look at ourselves as what we are - Indians!

 

[KS]

/\/\/\

VHP/Togadia is very anti-Modi for his allegedly being anti-Hindu such as not doing enough for cow protection, demolishing Hindu temples for being unauthorised/road widening, etc.

Togadia is lining up with Keshubhai to contest against Modi.

So will the seculars now accept Modi ?

 

[parijataka]

/\/\/\
Our Gujarat brigade like VIP, aragorn, etc should know better.

 

[Ray]

Togadia is a source of energy to reject whatever he stands for!

 

[nrj]

Apperantly Togdiya can also bring in votes. Extremists like him & Bajrang Dal fanatics are indispensible for bjp.

Sent via Tapatalk from a galaxy far far away