Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for IA

[PaliwalWarrior]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

The current MOD is trying to give orders to local companies. This you have seen.

As you know, India was about to order 145 light howitzers (towed) for $650 million. Later even that price was revised higher and the deal fell through.

The high price of Western weapons means the quantity goes down. India has VERY LONG borders and so keeps a large army. Can you equip one division but not the other. How do you know which division to equip and which one to leave. Logically the equipment should be uniform so that it can be used wherever needed.

India has large requirements due to size of the country and size of the army but less money.

We need to wait and watch the progress of the procurement in the next 2 years. Then you will be able to form a better opinion.

make in india is not new or novel initiative of this govt or DM

this is already as per old policy of buy and make in india

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

I cannot say much, The project was initiated as Dhanush MK1 ( 45cal ) was completed, Present Dhanush is 45cal the MK2 will be of 52cal ..

but will the dhanush mark2 make it in time for the RFP submission

ny details on dhanush mark 2 ?

 

[Zebra]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

@Casper, when you are in favour, then argument is not needed. You have already said you are "not interested in my useless stories". Then why did you even bother replying?

Sir, I said stop stories that too useless once. I am not interested in it.

But answer my questions point by point. I am asking it bcz we got a member on DFI who wants to prove it that India can't afford enough quantity weapons.

Really, India can't afford it?

Then I have a feeling, you don't like western weapons. When ever there are chance to get something in enough quantity that also from any western source then the same old dialog get started, "we can't afford it".

You tried it on submarine thread also.

But if that source is Russia then no problems, you won't cry at all for affordability matter.

God knows from where automatically this country gets money at that time. Isn't it!

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Sir, I said stop stories that too useless once. I am not interested in it.

Sir, I think the post below is extremely useful, at least to me. You don't like it, you don't read it. Why should he stop?

@Casper, you need to keep in mind that local value addition increases the affordability of foreign designed weapons. The local payment is in rupees. The dollar outgo comes down.

For example if India buys 2000 howitzers for unit price of 2 million, then a 50% local content means that the fx outgo comes down by 2B dollars. While government still pays 4 billion dollars, but 2 billion is local money. So India can effectively double the order for the same fx outgo.

Typically fx is the issue for large procurement.

India can print more rupees if needed by defence but cannot print dollars. So if capital budget has to increase by 10 billion dollars (as military is asking), that 10 billion has to be in rupees.

But answer my questions point by point. I am asking it bcz we got a member on DFI who wants to prove it that India can't afford enough quantity weapons.

Please read the post above. Why do you ask questions if you are "not interested" in the answer?

 

[Zebra]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Sir, I think the post below is extremely useful, at least to me. You don't like it, you don't read it. Why should he stop?

Sir, he said "India can't afford". Is that right?

On top of it, everything we are talking here are based on "Make in India" only.

Please read the post above. Why do you ask questions if you are "not interested" in the answer?

Sir, what ever we are talking here at this point, everything is based on "Make in India".

He is not aware of that fact?

Still he said it again "India can't afford".

OK, then I raised few questions to let him answer it.

That's all.

It is good, that now he knows that everything is based on "Make in India".

But the question remains unanswered.

Can India afford it now (that too in enough good quantity)?

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Sir, what ever we are talking here at this point, everything is based on "Make in India".

He is not aware of that fact?

Still he said it again "India can't afford".

OK, then I raised few questions to let him answer it.

That's all.

It is good, that now he knows that everything is based on "Make in India".

But the question remains unanswered.

Can India afford it now (that too in enough good quantity)?

Good. Let him answer it. Please don't ask him to stop. Thank you for changing your mind.

 

[sgarg]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

@Casper, the answer to your question is very simple and very clear. Western equipment is very expensive. The TOT part is very small. So bulk is fx outgo.

Russia will also be treated in the same way if Russia does not offer easy terms.

I prefer India buys from Russia in rubles rather than dollars.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

@sgarg, correct me if I am wrong: fx = forex = foreign exchange?

 

[sgarg]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

I prefer make in India too, that also based on local technology. For tanks, ICV, artillery etc, fully locally developed and locally made weapons are possible. However we have lost a lot of time. We stand in a crisis situation. Army does not have guns. Air force does not have enough interceptors. So some foreign designs can bought or some items can be bought overseas as needed. The GOI cannot say to Generals to wait indefinitely.

The DM is giving orders for local equipment where local equipment is available. For the rest, they are asking local industry to set up joint ventures. Where is the problem?

Some US weapons are being bought under government to government security agreement. These weapons are also based on urgent requirements where we do not have suitable alternative sources. So US purchases are adding value. These are NOT sanction proof though so we are not relying on US weapons alone. In each category, we have alternatives.

 

[sgarg]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

@sgarg, correct me if I am wrong: fx = forex = foreign exchange?

Yes. If you see India is not adding fx reserves in the past several quarters. Rupee has come under pressure due to this. Government cannot afford to spend too much in dollars.

 

[Zebra]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Yes. If you see India is not adding fx reserves in the past several quarters. Rupee has come under pressure due to this. Government cannot afford to spend too much in dollars.

"Make in India" doesn't mean make it for India only.

Those JV companies will export parts, systems, sub systems, weapon assemblies, fully ready to use weapons or something like it to other countries also.

All those payments will be in US $, if I am not wrong.

That might help our fx. I guess.

 

[Zebra]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

^^

On top of it, it will create jobs for people of India.

 

[sgarg]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

"Make in India" doesn't mean make it for India only.

Those JV companies will export parts, systems, sub systems, weapon assemblies, fully ready to use weapons or something like it to other countries also.
All those payments will be in US $, if I am not wrong.
That might help our fx. I guess.

Sure. What you said should be encouraged. For example, if GE set ups a plant for F414 in India, they can build for LCA Tejas and they can export as well. That is very welcome.

 

[ghost]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Ashok Leyland, Larsen and Turbo, Tata, Kalyani group and OFB are the Indian companies in the race. The Ashok Leyland, Larsen and Turbo and Nexter of France have formed consortium. TATA has a tie up with Denel of South Africa, whose black-listing was reversed in August this year. The CBI has lodged a case against Denel in 2005 for allegedly paying kickback in the sale of an anti-material bunker buster gun in India. Eight years later, in October 2013, the case was closed. Nobody was convicted as allegations of kickback could not be substantiated.

Pune based Kalyani group has its tie-up with Elbit of Israel while the Russians, have been working with the OFB.

Tata, Ashok Leyland, L&T, OFB and Kalyani in race for arty gun tender

 

[sasi]

I prefer make in India too, that also based on local technology. For tanks, ICV, artillery etc, fully locally developed and locally made weapons are possible. However we have lost a lot of time. We stand in a crisis situation. Army does not have guns. Air force does not have enough interceptors. So some foreign designs can bought or some items can be bought overseas as needed. The GOI cannot say to Generals to wait indefinitely.

The DM is giving orders for local equipment where local equipment is available. For the rest, they are asking local industry to set up joint ventures. Where is the problem?

Some US weapons are being bought under government to government security agreement. These weapons are also based on urgent requirements where we do not have suitable alternative sources. So US purchases are adding value. These are NOT sanction proof though so we are not relying on US weapons alone. In each category, we have alternatives.

us weapons are bought bec antony thought there's no scam taint in g to g deal! We dole out 4.1$ for shinney planes.

Any airforce in right sense will go for logistic problem. Sudden love by iaf in helping army logistics? When their offensive cap is lowest ever!

Ps- US offered bi-cycle manu in india for their one of the offset tot!
We cleared nonsense tot offset for us deals!

 

[sgarg]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Ps- US offered bi-cycle manu in india for their one of the offset tot!
We cleared nonsense tot offset for us deals!

You need to understand why? US is not interested in sharing tech with India. So any TOT commitment with US is not worth the paper on which it is written.

 

[sasi]

You need to understand why? US is not interested in sharing tech with India. So any TOT commitment with US is not worth the paper on which it is written.

fully agree! In atgm Thank god we go with spike!

Ps-Why is DGQA taking much time to send its final report on the OFB Dhanush?

 

[Zebra]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

You need to understand why? US is not interested in sharing tech with India. So any TOT commitment with US is not worth the paper on which it is written.

Sir, what we did with those old ToTs?

Does it helped in anyways?

Or just we paid for it so that the seller can get more money.

 

[sgarg]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

@Casper, which deal you are talking about?

 

[sasi]

Sir, what we did with those old ToTs?

Does it helped in anyways?

Or just we paid for it so that the seller can get more money.

no one monitor that tot,so some may come,some remain paper!

Just to have give a feeling that tech to us is coming!

We get tot to manu mig21,23,27. Now for su30.next pakfa. But hal doesn't hv cap to manu new plane alone!

It's total joke!