Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for IA

[sgarg]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

@DingDong, you need to explain by giving examples. You have a theory that I have not seen in practice. No American manufacturing company is sharing IPR and profits with employees as you claim.

Things may be different in some high-tech companies which are at the cutting edge of innovation. And we want such companies in India to contribute to defence field. Can you give me examples of innovation in DPSU? I have only seen slippage of targets and flouting of quality control so far.

"Please tell me how many Indian biggies are actually being run by Technocrats and not by the Businessmen? Do you know what kind of people run TI, IBM, APPLE, Oracle, Microsoft etc?"

Many companies - Bharat Forge is one such example. L&T is totally run by technocrats. Dr Reddys. HCL Corporation. I can give a list of more than 100 companies.

You are totally negating the events of last 25 years in this country. You live in a pre-1990 world. A lot has changed since then.

 

[Neil]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

No sermons. prove your point, or else STOP.

prove my point about what? I questioned TATA ability to make 1000 plus guns a year and the need for different guns by TATA and BF together.

PS. no where in my post did I questioned TATAs ability to make guns I only questioned their ability to make such huge number of guns in a year. Obviously that ability can be developed in no time by TATA.

hell i never even bought in DPSU issue.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

OFB make 155mm barrels within an hour compare to Bharat Forge which do the same in a day whole ..

But that is not the point, The point is that we have a proven truck and a proven 155mm gun at disposal ..

And such combination should be exploit to its limit ..

=============

The first 20 out of 50 guns are already delivered to army, Another 115 pieces will get through in matter of 8 months ..

I agree with you. However OFB is struggling with the current order for towed guns. The small order may take them three-four years.

You may not realize but the public sector is FAR FAR behind private sector in this country today. Most people just do not have any idea that private sector has left PSUs in the dust in the last 25 years.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Under the new Government, We received towed 155mm as well in near future wheeled 155mm ..

Gud Work, So far ..

 

[Zebra]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Most of India's economy is dependent on small enterprises , MSMEs, thank them for keeping the Indian economy afloat.

Most of the Indian Biggies are products of Opium Trade (TATA) :shocked: or License Raj (Reliance) or the so-called Private-Public Partnership (2-G types). The only kind of innovation expected from them is finding new ways to dupe the government and the stock exchange.

While the US companies share their patents (and the revenue) with their employees, TATA claims 100%, that is the "work culture" of one of the most respected brands of India.

Please tell me how many Indian biggies are actually being run by Technocrats and not by the Businessmen? Do you know what kind of people run TI, IBM, APPLE, Oracle, Microsoft etc?

Jamsetji Tata - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

If I count 203mm and 155mm guns, PA has 415 self-propelled guns and 422 towed guns.

India may have about 600+ towed 155mm guns (Bofors and upgraded M-46). India has 100 self propelled Catapult guns. India may also have 1000+ M-46 (130mm) and 2000+ IFG (105mm) in addition.

The situation does not seem too bad except the self propelled part. GOI is tackling it two ways - ordering new truck mounted guns and upgrading 1000+ M-46 to 155mm caliber. Also Dhanush towed guns have been ordered.

well i dont think calibre can be increased or upgraded

 

[sgarg]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

well i dont think calibre can be increased or upgraded

What do you mean?

 

[sgarg]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

OFB make 155mm barrels within an hour compare to Bharat Forge which do the same in a day whole ..

But that is not the point, The point is that we have a proven truck and a proven 155mm gun at disposal ..

And such combination should be exploit to its limit ..

=============

The first 20 out of 50 guns are already delivered to army, Another 115 pieces will get through in matter of 8 months ..

Great news if that is the case.

The GOI wants to see productivity in DPSU and OFB. If GOI gets what Services need (quantity with quality) then orders will keep flowing. GOI wants to use DPSU and OFB in an optimum fashion. Funds for modernization of factories have been given. DPSU has bigger order flow and they have to deliver.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

would Kalyanis be allowed to bid on stand alone basis with their Bharat 52 - i.e. totaly indian gun no foreign tie up ?

@Kunalbiswas

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

What do you mean?

if you want ot increase caliber of the gun it entails changing the barell with barell of higher lenght

if you want to change the gun from 130 mm to 155 mm there is no change in caliber only change in dia mm

whcih can be done by

rifling / changing barelll breech chamber the works

 

[sgarg]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Tata is the largest engineering company in India. The origin of Tata is now irrelevant. Everybody knows that Tata has very good professional management.

Tata is the best company for Army requirements - for both artillery and armoured vehicles.

India has lagged behind due to unhealthy love of Western weapons which have proved a mirage. India does not have the economy to support Western weapons. Generals forget that India's per capita has reached $1500, that IS THE LOWER SIDE OF MIDDLE INCOME COUNTRIES. India CANNOT afford Western weapons.

The only option for India is to go for good quality locally made weapons.

 

[Bhadra]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

if you want ot increase caliber of the gun it entails changing the barell with barell of higher lenght

if you want to change the gun from 130 mm to 155 mm there is no change in caliber only change in dia mm

whcih can be done by

rifling / changing barelll breech chamber the works

OH, is that so easy ?? what a noble solution ??

 

[Zebra]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Tata is the largest engineering company in India. The origin of Tata is now irrelevant. Everybody knows that Tata has very good professional management.

Tata is the best company for Army requirements - for both artillery and armoured vehicles.

India has lagged behind due to unhealthy love of Western weapons which have proved a mirage. India does not have the economy to support Western weapons. Generals forget that India's per capita has reached $1500, that IS THE LOWER SIDE OF MIDDLE INCOME COUNTRIES. India CANNOT afford Western weapons.

The only option for India is to go for good quality locally made weapons.

Sir,

MoD and finance minister knows that India can't afford western weapons?

If yes then why the hell they requested them to reply for different RFPs.

And who told you that India can't afford western weapons in first place. I wonder.

If not western then can India afford non western but still foreign weapons?

If yes, then what happened to $1500 per capita here?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Yes they can, OFB coming up with its Dhanush mark 2 ..

would Kalyanis be allowed to bid on stand alone basis with their Bharat 52 - i.e. totaly indian gun no foreign tie up ?

@Kunalbiswas

 

[sgarg]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Sir,

MoD and finance minister knows that India can't afford western weapons?
If yes then why the hell they requested them to reply for different RFPs.
And who told you that India can't afford western weapons in first place. I wonder.
If not western then can India afford non western but still foreign weapons?
If yes, then what happened to $1500 per capita here?

The current MOD is trying to give orders to local companies. This you have seen.

As you know, India was about to order 145 light howitzers (towed) for $650 million. Later even that price was revised higher and the deal fell through.

The high price of Western weapons means the quantity goes down. India has VERY LONG borders and so keeps a large army. Can you equip one division but not the other. How do you know which division to equip and which one to leave. Logically the equipment should be uniform so that it can be used wherever needed.

India has large requirements due to size of the country and size of the army but less money.

We need to wait and watch the progress of the procurement in the next 2 years. Then you will be able to form a better opinion.

 

[sgarg]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

@Casper, you need to keep in mind that local value addition increases the affordability of foreign designed weapons. The local payment is in rupees. The dollar outgo comes down.

For example if India buys 2000 howitzers for unit price of 2 million, then a 50% local content means that the fx outgo comes down by 2B dollars. While government still pays 4 billion dollars, but 2 billion is local money. So India can effectively double the order for the same fx outgo.

Typically fx is the issue for large procurement.

India can print more rupees if needed by defence but cannot print dollars. So if capital budget has to increase by 10 billion dollars (as military is asking), that 10 billion has to be in rupees.

 

[Zebra]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

The current MOD is trying to give orders to local companies. This you have seen.

As you know, India was about to order 145 light howitzers (towed) for $650 million. Later even that price was revised higher and the deal fell through.

The high price of Western weapons means the quantity goes down. India has VERY LONG borders and so keeps a large army. Can you equip one division but not the other. How do you know which division to equip and which one to leave. Logically the equipment should be uniform so that it can be used wherever needed.

India has large requirements due to size of the country and size of the army but less money.

We need to wait and watch the progress of the procurement in the next 2 years. Then you will be able to form a better opinion.

Sir, not interested in your useless stories. First answer these questions.....

MoD and finance minister knows that India can't afford western weapons?

Why the hell they requested them to reply for different RFPs?

And who told you that India can't afford western weapons in first place?

If not western then can India afford non western foreign weapons?

@Casper, you need to keep in mind that local value addition increases the affordability of foreign designed weapons. The local payment is in rupees. The dollar outgo comes down.

For example if India buys 2000 howitzers for unit price of 2 million, then a 50% local content means that the fx outgo comes down by 2B dollars. While government still pays 4 billion dollars, but 2 billion is local money. So India can effectively double the order for the same fx outgo.

Typically fx is the issue for large procurement.

India can print more rupees if needed by defence but cannot print dollars. So if capital budget has to increase by 10 billion dollars (as military is asking), that 10 billion has to be in rupees.

Most of DFI members (including myself) are in favour of 'make in India'.

On top of it, if possible then most of them (including myself) are in favour of 'Indian weapons'.

 

[sgarg]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

@Casper, when you are in favour, then argument is not needed. You have already said you are "not interested in my useless stories". Then why did you even bother replying?

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

if y

OH, is that so easy ?? what a noble solution ??

ou have different view or info / knowledge can you pl share it ?

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Yes they can, OFB coming up with its Dhanush mark 2 ..

but will the dhanush mark2 make it in time for the RFP submission

ny details on dhanush mark 2 ?