Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for IA

Kunal Biswas

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Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Dhanush over BEML Heavy Tatra would be a good alternative ..
 

sgarg

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Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

there is no company on earth that can dole out 1000 guns a year.

Is there a possibility that if anyone of the company looses out they can still be in the game by encouraging outsourcing

eg. say TAT wins the order BF can provide metallurgy related help and so on... does MoD forbids such agreement can be debated.
Do you have any idea of the scale of Tata? Likely you have no idea.
No DPSU is even a shadow of Tata.

You live in a dream world.
 

Bhadra

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Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Explain saar.
The reach of an operation without stop or a pause which would commence at the border generally depends on the range of artillery that is supporting that operation.

The first or initial set of Indian operation probably would be planned for 30 kms as Indian medium guns bulk of which is 130 mm would be able to provide fire support upto 25 -30 km.

All major Pakistani communication centres, towns, cantonments and all strategic targets lie within the first 25 - 30 kms which Indian artillery even today will be able to take on.

What is CSD after all ? I hope it does not aim at crossing the Indus river !!!


The moot point is not CSD but various other important issue that would brought to effect by 155mm calibre MGS (Mounted Gun System) such as lethality, additional range, mobility, reduced logistics burden, more flexibility, deeper fires for effective interdiction - more bang for the buck.
 

Bhadra

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Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

@mikhail

You are absolutely right but artillery of any kind whatsoever once deployed does not move till it can support the operations. Redeployment only is necessitated when the FEBA (Forward edge of battle Area) reach maximum range or goes beyond range of deployed artillary.

Fire and move is not the tactics of artillery though it might carry out cater pillaring.

You point of mobility to support mechanised operation mainly relate to second phase of operations, out flanking manoeuvres and exigencies of operations or contingencies.

Having supported the first stage of operations up to 20 km, you still think the initial aims of CSD would still not be met ??

MGS (mounted Gun System) will provide an answer to most of the questions that you have raised including air portability and transportation by ships.
 
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sgarg

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Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

The reach of an operation without stop or a pause which would commence at the border generally depends on the range of artillery that is supporting that operation.
The first or initial set of Indian operation probably would be planned for 30 kms as Indian medium guns bulk of which is 130 mm would be able to provide fire support upto 25 -30 km.
What is CSD after all ? I hope it does not aim at crossing the Indus river !!!
The earlier assumptions may not hold. War plans can change.
India does not have to cross the Indus in the plains. Any push in North Punjab and Kashmir that is strong enough will do the trick. If Islamabad falls, Sindh and Baluchistan will declare independence in no time. You will see.
 

Bhadra

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Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

The earlier assumptions may not hold. War plans can change.
India does not have to cross the Indus in the plains. Any push in North Punjab and Kashmir that is strong enough will do the trick. If Islamabad falls, Sindh and Baluchistan will declare independence in no time. You will see.
They can declare themselves independent without a military push from India. That is a futile arguments as we were discussing the present artillery capability to support the CSD. On what account and due to what Pakistan can breakup is a different subject and military action is but part of that.

And CSD is not an all out " break up Pakistan doctrine". But a massive punitive operational doctrine which contemplate Indian forces taking chunks of Pak territory and force military attrition which may be very painful for Pakistan and specially the Paki Army, Air Force and Navy.

Any attempt by any side to break up each other or raise level of insurgencies dangerously will be a major cause of war and driver for all out wars between India and Pakistan.

sooooooooooooo, for the time being it may be a big Noooooooooooo Noooooooooooooooooo....

CSD is just to convey to the Paki generals that we will bash you up !! And bash you hard ... !!
 

ezsasa

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Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Would it be possible for somebody to put up updated field rationalisation plan here,so that we can have a clearer picture about the remaining items.
Correct me if i am wrong this 814 order is only the first of the planned items isn't it?
 

sgarg

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Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

CSD is just to convey to the Paki generals that we will bash you up !! And bash you hard ... !!
I cannot agree to your statement as it serves no purpose. Why would you "bash" Paki generals without taking territory. They will come back with even more strength.
The purpose of war is to take territory. Otherwise just put CSD in dustbin and talk of peace a-la Manmohan Singh.
 

Bhadra

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Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

I cannot agree to your statement as it serves no purpose. Why would you "bash" Paki generals without taking territory. They will come back with even more strength.
The purpose of war is to take territory. Otherwise just put CSD in dustbin and talk of peace a-la Manmohan Singh.
That we will discuss in the CSD thread but before that be educated on theories of war and aims of wars.

and why wars do occur ?
And why on earth India would want that territory which was divided in 1947 for good !
Let us come back to artillery !!
 

sgarg

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Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Dhanush over BEML Heavy Tatra would be a good alternative ..
I agree with you. However OFB is struggling with the current order for towed guns. The small order may take them three-four years.

You may not realize but the public sector is FAR FAR behind private sector in this country today. Most people just do not have any idea that private sector has left PSUs in the dust in the last 25 years.

India has mostly market driven economy now.

OFB may not allow Dhanush to be built by private companies. GOI may decide to skirt this problem by going for other designs.

OFB cannot compete with companies like Tata and Bharat Forge - both on cost and time.

L&T has good solution too but I feel French weapons are too expensive. The price will play against some of the players.
 

Neil

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Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Do you have any idea of the scale of Tata? Likely you have no idea.
No DPSU is even a shadow of Tata.

You live in a dream world.
stick to replying to my post and dont worry as to where I live.

no i dont.. but 1000 guns a year... please!!

anyways if u have any source to back your claim.. happy to stand corrected.
 
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sgarg

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Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

stick to replying to my post and dont worry as to where I live.

no i dont.. but 1000 guns a year... please!!

anyways if u have any source to back your claim.. happy to stand corrected.
Why not. A company having a capacity of building more than 100K medium and heavy trucks can definitely build 1000 guns a year.
The manufacturing processes for heavy vehicles and artillery guns have lot in common.

Tata could build artillery guns that it showed to the world because it has the facilities. These facilities were NOT BUILT FOR ONE GUN.
 

Neil

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Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Why not. A company having a capacity of building more than 100K medium and heavy trucks can definitely build 1000 guns a year.
The manufacturing processes for heavy vehicles and artillery guns have lot in common.

Tata could build artillery guns that it showed to the world because it has the facilities. These facilities were NOT BUILT FOR ONE GUN.
in short it is an assumption based on their vehicle production. Interesting.

anyways I stand corrected on production.
 

DingDong

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Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

For those who understand Hindi well: The motto of the Indian MNCs (including TATA)

Iski Topi Uske Sar

That is why the government fears them more than it fears the foreigners.
 

sgarg

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Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

in short it is an assumption based on their vehicle production. Interesting.

anyways I stand corrected on production.
Have you ever seen a factory in your entire life? What do you understand about industrial processes? Some posters on this forum brandish their ignorance as a weapon.

And this is the goddamn problem with this country's army. The army has been kept shielded from civilian life. These people live in their own sweet world of fabricated reality.

My friend, accept the truth that DPSUs are surviving purely because the government continues to throw money at them, not because they have any qualities.
 

sgarg

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Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

For those who understand Hindi well: The motto of the Indian MNCs (including TATA)

Iski Topi Uske Sar

That is why the government fears them more than it fears the foreigners.
This weird ignorant rants starts again!
Can you take even one example and prove.
Companies have built their credibility in the domestic market as well as international market on sheer hard work and innovation.

Come out of your well, and see the progress this country has made. Find the per capita in 1990 when India was about to default on its international obligations and find the per capita in 2013-14. Ask yourself how that happened? It did not happen by passing the "topis".
 

sgarg

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Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

This thread is about to become an ignorant rant-a-thon of decrying private sector and singing praises of DPSU who have not done much for all the monopoly except burn government money.

It is OK for BEML to import all components of Tatra and merely assemble a truck, but it is not OK for Tata that actually builds all components of its trucks locally.

Luckily this government is not run by such bozos. So these rants will not have any impact.
 

Neil

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Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Have you ever seen a factory in your entire life? What do you understand about industrial processes? Some posters on this forum brandish their ignorance as a weapon.

And this is the goddamn problem with this country's army. The army has been kept shielded from civilian life. These people live in their own sweet world of fabricated reality.

My friend, accept the truth that DPSUs are surviving purely because the government continues to throw money at them, not because they have any qualities.
same old method... go personal instead of discussing the issue in civility.

What I have seen in my life is none of your business.

please spare me your sermons- dont need them.
 

sgarg

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Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

same old method... go personal instead of discussing the issue in civility.

What I have seen in my life is none of your business.

please spare me your sermons- dont need them.
No sermons. prove your point, or else STOP.
 

DingDong

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Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

This weird ignorant rants starts again!
Can you take even one example and prove.
Companies have built their credibility in the domestic market as well as international market on sheer hard work and innovation.

Come out of your well, and see the progress this country has made. Find the per capita in 1990 when India was about to default on its international obligations and find the per capita in 2013-14. Ask yourself how that happened? It did not happen by passing the "topis".
Most of India's economy is dependent on small enterprises , MSMEs, thank them for keeping the Indian economy afloat.

Most of the Indian Biggies are products of Opium Trade (TATA) or License Raj (Reliance) or the so-called Private-Public Partnership (2-G types). The only kind of innovation expected from them is finding new ways to dupe the government and the stock exchange.

While the US companies share their patents (and the revenue) with their employees, TATA claims 100%, that is the "work culture" of one of the most respected brands of India.

Please tell me how many Indian biggies are actually being run by Technocrats and not by the Businessmen? Do you know what kind of people run TI, IBM, APPLE, Oracle, Microsoft etc?
 

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