Manmohan Singh opened 'secret talks' with Kayani: Report

[Phenom]

Who fed you that?

I can understand what you mean, but trust me it's all corrupt media hype, nothing more, ask any North India who reads and has an ability to analyse stuff and you will know what type of long lost "brothers" we are (not even illiterates would take these deluded kaum as slaves). The whole BS the media propagates is to appease the savages and barbarians living shamelessly across the border. Our dumb sold out mediamen such as Burkha Dutt (the dallal) is completely off tangent and present what the high command orders them to say, however no one here takes it hands down, moreover this obnoxious notion is constantly shoved down our throats by our sold-out media and spineless politicians, who do not want any obstacles (i.e a war like situation which could stop the flow of moolah ) in their corrupt money making spree!!

Let me give you an example, a collegue of mine is from Bihar. He is a regular guy, who doesn't pay much attention to news or international affairs. One day our conversation moved towards Pakistan, his view of quite expected, he considered Pakistan a menace and a threat, but after criticizing Pakistan for a few minutes, he said " you know what they are our brothers afterall." Since I don't discuss politics at work I left the topic and moved on.
A few days later CWG began in Delhi and when Pakistan entered the stadium there was a huge cheer to welcome them. It was probably the second biggest applause any team got, next only to India. There is obviously some brotherly feeling towards Pakistan among the populace, the media channels they just exploits that, they don't create it.

P.S: Don't think I am saying they are less patriotic, they just have a different idea about India and Pakistan than most of us here.

 

[Phenom]

No one wishes to 're-unite' with Pakistan. India is nothing like Pakistan, as India has thankfully shaped itself on much better principles than Pakistan. On a people to people level, hate it or live with it, but they are no different than us.

This is factually incorrect as there is no 'us' to begin with.
IIRC, you are a Punjabi. I as a Tamilian have very little in common with you and a manipuri has very little in common with either of us. Indian is multi-ethnic and multi-cultural and Pakistanis cannot be the same as all of us.Tell me, what a Pakistani has in common with an Assamese or Bengali or Malayale or Kannadiga then I will accept that the Pakistani are no different from "us".

The inbred bias filled in both sides gets each side running towards denial, yet its true. I see no difference between the people of two sides except for their opposing biases towards one another.

Let's look at the top three 'inbred bias' that we have towards each other.
First let's look at the 'bias' that Indians have towards Pakistan
1. Pakistanis are religious nut-cases
2. Pakistani is over run with militants
3. Pakistanis hate India
Tell me which of these are untrue.

Now lets look at the bias that Pakistani have towards Indians

1. Indians/Hindus are cowards
2. Indians/Hindus oppress minorities
3. Indians/Hindus are out to destroy their country along with the scheming Jews.
Tell me which of these are true?


I have heard the argument about how both sides are biased, but that is just a nice way of hiding the hatred that Pakistanis have towards Indians. All the Indian 'bias' are either true are close to being true.

 

[Oracle]

Let me give you an example, a collegue of mine is from Bihar. He is a regular guy, who doesn't pay much attention to news or international affairs. One day our conversation moved towards Pakistan, his view of quite expected, he considered Pakistan a menace and a threat, but after criticizing Pakistan for a few minutes, he said " you know what they are our brothers afterall." Since I don't discuss politics at work I left the topic and moved on.
A few days later CWG began in Delhi and when Pakistan entered the stadium there was a huge cheer to welcome them. It was probably the second biggest applause any team got, next only to India. There is obviously some brotherly feeling towards Pakistan among the populace, the media channels they just exploits that, they don't create it.

P.S: Don't think I am saying they are less patriotic, they just have a different idea about India and Pakistan than most of us here.

Oh! I see! One guy saying that and you made your mind. When I started the topic about South India, you guys were baying for my blood. Stop ridiculing Indians, and I would suggest you try to become one with the rest of the Indians. You know how you can do it.

And no more offtopic conversations!

Mods you need to be active, DFI lately has become a troller's paradise.

 

[Tronic]

Let me give you an example, a collegue of mine is from Bihar. He is a regular guy, who doesn't pay much attention to news or international affairs. One day our conversation moved towards Pakistan, his view of quite expected, he considered Pakistan a menace and a threat, but after criticizing Pakistan for a few minutes, he said " you know what they are our brothers afterall." Since I don't discuss politics at work I left the topic and moved on.

If this "brotherly" feeling exists in some people, it is only because factually, they are of the same ilk. When those Indians and Pakistanis live in foreign countries, naturally 2 Gujaratis, or 2 Biharis, one from India and one from Pakistan, will have more in common, than say, they will have with a Punjabi or Sindhi, from their own respective countries, India or Pakistan.

A few days later CWG began in Delhi and when Pakistan entered the stadium there was a huge cheer to welcome them. It was probably the second biggest applause any team got, next only to India. There is obviously some brotherly feeling towards Pakistan among the populace, the media channels they just exploits that, they don't create it.

Ofcourse, and Mohali, Punjab is known to be the friendliest cricket ground for the Pakistani cricket team when they travel to India. So what? They are wrong for not hating Pakistanis with the same amount of passion as others? Lets not try to follow Pakistan, where patriotism is measured with the amount of hate one displays against the other country. There should be some difference between the two sides, otherwise, you will be the exact same as them, regardless of your ethnicity!

This is factually incorrect as there is no 'us' to begin with.
IIRC, you are a Punjabi. I as a Tamilian have very little in common with you and a manipuri has very little in common with either of us. Indian is multi-ethnic and multi-cultural and Pakistanis cannot be the same as all of us.Tell me, what a Pakistani has in common with an Assamese or Bengali or Malayale or Kannadiga then I will accept that the Pakistani are no different from "us".

If there cannot be an "us" with Indians, than with the same token there surely cannot be a "them" with the Pakistanis either. All of Pakistan's major ethnic groups, barring the Balochis, make up a significant part of India; so either they are same as "us", or, there is no "us" and "them" to start with. You decide.

Let's look at the top three 'inbred bias' that we have towards each other.
First let's look at the 'bias' that Indians have towards Pakistan
1. Pakistanis are religious nut-cases
2. Pakistani is over run with militants
3. Pakistanis hate India
Tell me which of these are untrue.

I think, these biases differ with region, because Indian Punjabis most certainly do not have those biases; their biases are more or less the exact same as the Pakistani biases which you yourself pointed out, except;

Now lets look at the bias that Pakistani have towards Indians

1. Indians/Hindus are cowards
2. Indians/Hindus oppress minorities
3. Indians/Hindus are out to destroy their country along with the scheming Jews.
Tell me which of these are true?

The Indian Punjabi biases are more like;

1. Pakistanis are aggressors who only a handful of Sikh/Punjabi soldiers have regularly stopped single handedly.
2. Pakistanis started the bloody Partition riots in Punjab
3. Pakistanis are cunning and clever (though the Hindu Baniya caste is the prime target for this bias, probably due to grudges against moneylenders lol)

And even these 'biases' actually read more like grudges.

Actually, thats about where biases against Pakistan stop in Indian Punjab. And I realize, even the biases are not on a country level, but on a personal level with the Pakistani Punjabis.

I have heard the argument about how both sides are biased, but that is just a nice way of hiding the hatred that Pakistanis have towards Indians. All the Indian 'bias' are either true are close to being true.

I guess there is no "us" when it comes to biases aswell.

 

[maomao]

Let me give you an example, a collegue of mine is from Bihar. He is a regular guy, who doesn't pay much attention to news or international affairs. One day our conversation moved towards Pakistan, his view of quite expected, he considered Pakistan a menace and a threat, but after criticizing Pakistan for a few minutes, he said " you know what they are our brothers afterall." Since I don't discuss politics at work I left the topic and moved on.
A few days later CWG began in Delhi and when Pakistan entered the stadium there was a huge cheer to welcome them. It was probably the second biggest applause any team got, next only to India. There is obviously some brotherly feeling towards Pakistan among the populace, the media channels they just exploits that, they don't create it.

P.S: Don't think I am saying they are less patriotic, they just have a different idea about India and Pakistan than most of us here.

I think there is something wrong with your head....even I would cheer the enemy harder if the enemy is invited by us to play on our soil, its a natural reaction/sportsmanship (I hope you do not call our Army Chief being brotherly when Slauting Gen Musharaf when he visited Agra? Or Do you?), you tend to show too much warmth if the wrong lies at ur end (i.e inviting savages) you have to prove urself correct.......above all get your head out of sand, Indians by nature are not as violent as freaky barbaric pakistanis, Indians from childhood are raised in a foolish world of peace and tranquility, hence they may find some type of a brother in the nation not in the people (as pakistan the land is ours and it does not belong to wannabe-arabs)....just show North Indians face of Hafis Saeed, Afridi, a or genocidal mullah and see how a north Indian reacts.....And let me tell you buddy North Indians are any day fiercer than South Indians, and when it comes to hating freaks and savages nobody can beat us, yet we are plaugued by dumb gandhism, there is no denial in that!

 

[Phenom]

If there cannot be an "us" with Indians, than with the same token there surely cannot be a "them" with the Pakistanis either. All of Pakistan's major ethnic groups, barring the Balochis, make up a significant part of India; so either they are same as "us", or, there is no "us" and "them" to start with. You decide.

This has been my point all along, the argument that Indians and Pakistanis are brothers is untrue, just a section of Indians are ethnically related to a section of Pakistanis. That doesn't mean both our nations are some sibling civilzations as the media and peaceniks often portray.

I think, these biases differ with region, because Indian Punjabis most certainly do not have those biases; their biases are more or less the exact same as the Pakistani biases which you yourself pointed out, except;

I didn't know that,
It goes to show how there is a regional variation in the way people look at Indo-Pak conflict, which is to be expected as each region has been affected to varying degrees in this conflict, Punjab being the worst affected.


@maomao,

Just look at Tronic's post, people do tend to like each other from their own ethnicity and there is nothing wrong in that.

And let me tell you buddy North Indians are any day fiercer than South Indians

I'm don't want a *#$* waving contest about who is fiercer,

The point I'm trying to make is something else
Whenever MMS launches a new initiative, the reaction in online forum goes like this; MMS is a traitor or MMS wants a noble peace prize or Congress is doing this to get Muslim votes. I'm trying to point out that Indo-Pak conflict is more complex and we need to understand it, rather than looking at it as black and white. Only then we can understand the mindset of Indian peace activists and why they have been so successful in India's foreign policy.

n e way no matter what I say, you are going to think I'm questioning North Indian loyalties, so I'll just leave this subject

 

[Virendra]

A few days later CWG began in Delhi and when Pakistan entered the stadium there was a huge cheer to welcome them. It was probably the second biggest applause any team got, next only to India. There is obviously some brotherly feeling towards Pakistan among the populace, the media channels they just exploits that, they don't create it.

Oh you never know mate, if the roar was an applause or ...............................

North Indians are any day fiercer than South Indians

I don't know what you're trying to imply or achieve by this comparison. I could easily say south indians are more law abiding civilized and educated than their northern brothers but what are we trying to prove here? And yes I'm a north Indian.
If this is just to point at some behavioral differences then ok otherwise one shouldn't conclude much on it.
There are two sides to it, the greater aggression in north indians also comes from socio economic disparities like poverty and illteracy. On a positive note, their raw exuberance contributes better in battle fields while on the negative side it creates law and order problems at other occasions.
You can draw the two sides for south indians yourself or I could do it if you want. I've lived there for more than 3 years and really appreciate their way of life.
We're just two varities in a bunch and have our own strengths and shortcomings.

duhhhhhh we are so very off topic from so many posts.
Regards,
Virendra

 

[Yusuf]

What on earth is going on here? How many threads will I have to junk I don't know.