Manmohan Singh opened 'secret talks' with Kayani: Report

[SHASH2K2]

Manmohan Singh opened 'secret talks' with Kayani: Report​

LONDOM: Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh opened secret talks with Pakistan Army chief ten months ago to build on the cricket-inspired diplomatic thaw between the two countries, a media report said on Saturday.

Singh "appointed an unofficial envoy to make contact with General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, Pakistan's chief of the army staff who exercises de facto control over foreign policy," The Times reported.

The talks, through a back channel, have encouraged the UK and US believe that the countries competition for influence in Afghanistan could be better managed during efforts to start a peace process, it said.

The visit of Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani to watch the semi-final match between India and Pakistan in the cricket World Cup last month has sparked hope of a diplomatic thaw between the two neighbouring countries.

Kayani visited Kabul this week to meet members of the high peace council, a body set up by Afghan President Hamid Karzai, to build contacts with Taliban groups.

The army chief was accompanied by General Ahmad Shuja Pasha, head of Pakistan's powerful Inter-Services Intelligence agency.

 

[maomao]

Why would this numb Mehngai Mohan Singh open talks with the Chief of worlds biggest terrorist and mercenary gang (aka pakistan army)?

Is he planning to hand over Kashmir and claim champion of islamic self-determination (or whatever that means and above all we have seen such mindless retard behavior by GOI in Sharm-el-Sheikh and Thimpu)....God can only save this country from Congress and US pressure!

 

[Phenom]

We all know MMS' obsession with Pakistan, so this is hardly surprising.

Atleast this time, he is talking with the real powers in Pakistan rather than talking with the useless civilian leadership, who have very little control over Pakistan's India policies.

 

[Yusuf]

This step should have been taken long back. Everyone knows the PA is the power holder and by talking to them we can get an idea about what's in their mind and then if any terror attack happens, they could be held responsible. So everything cannot be looked at with skepticism. And please use civil terms and proper names. We are not here for name calling and insulting people whether we love them or hate them. It just brings down the quality of the forum as well as credibility.

 

[Tronic]

Why would this numb Mehngai Mohan Singh open talks with the Chief of worlds biggest terrorist and mercenary gang (aka pakistan army)?

Because that "mercenary gang" is sitting at our door.

Is he planning to hand over Kashmir and claim champion of islamic self-determination (or whatever that means and above all...

Easy with your various phobias.

we have seen such mindless retard behavior by GOI in Sharm-el-Sheikh and Thimpu)....God can only save this country from Congress and US pressure!

We had the same people hounding the GoI over not having a chip to bargain over for Kashmiri militancy. When GoI pulled up a Sharm-el-Sheikh, they started to be hounded against for using Balochistan as a chip to bargain against Kashmiri militancy. People with chips on their shoulders will never be satisfied.

 

[maomao]

'^^^^ Just because this gang of thugs is sitting next door, so we should go and offer our respect to its chief? Nice logic!

Firstly, who told you that Balochistan is a bargaining chip for India and how much do you know about India's activity in Balochistan?....Kindly keep in mind that all the information you receive regarding India's involvement there is from pakistanis sources, moreover pakistan started blaming India for their Balochistan problem due to India's involvement in AFG (as a Bargaining Chip), when Balochistan din't work they came out with another masterpiece that "Taliban" are Indian agents, no doubt pakistan made a mockery of themselves Internationally, but scored brownie points with their savage-delusional awam. However they will soon start blaming India for having control over militant mullahs in punjab.

I hope you realize we have very less or no participation in Balochistan, as this freedom movement dates back even before pakistan was created, and pakistan is heavily concentrating on projecting to the world that all terrorist activities in pakistan is linked to India.....in short by pakistan psyche - "if we are terrorists, then we will prove that India is also a terrorist, it does not matter by hook or crook".

P.S: It's hard for this group of mercenaries (aka pakistan army) to explain to it's braindead-savage awam that how come "Hindu" India has progressed and their pure nation has failed and become a bankrupt state with a begging bowl in its hand even though they are "Allahs" dearest "Islamic" nation, hence Blame India, Israel and US at convenience. Moreover, it's a way to retain power and control over alms/aid/zakat, which is now being challenged by Mullahs whom they nurtured.

 

[Ray]

No harm trying, but it is a waste of time.

 

[nitesh]

chalo denial aa gaya

http://www.ptinews.com/news/1537230_PMO-denies-media-report-that-PM-contacted-Kayani-
PMO denies media report that PM contacted Kayani

 

[ejazr]

The Hindu : National : Manmohan using 'unofficial envoy' to contact Kayani, says British media report

LONDON: A British newspaper on Saturday somewhat sensationally claimed that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had opened "secret talks" with Pakistan and appointed an "unofficial envoy" about 10 months ago to make contact with Army chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.

Under the heading, "Cricket-inspired Thaw Pushes Rivals into Secret Talks," The Times said it had "learnt" that the move was intended to build on the "cricket-inspired diplomatic thaw between the rivals" following the World Cup semi-final in Mohali.

Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani visited India at Dr. Singh's invitation to watch the match.

Observers, however, noted a contradiction in the report. How, they asked, was it possible for a move initiated "about ten months ago" to be related to the "cricket-inspired diplomatic thaw" which was barely a month-old?

The newspaper pointed out that New Delhi did not react to General Kayani's recent visit to Kabul to meet Taliban representatives. This was "evidence" of what it described as "rapprochement being driven by the U.S., after the Cricket World Cup semi-final."

"General Kayani visited Kabul this week to meet members of the High Peace Council, a body set up by President [Hamid] Karzai, to build contacts with Taleban groups. General Kayani was accompanied by General Ahmad Shuja Pasha, the head of Pakistan's powerful Inter-Services Intelligence agency. Delhi, which in the past would have condemned the visit as Pakistani 'meddling', remained silent — providing the latest evidence of rapprochement being driven by the U.S., after the Cricket World Cup semi-final between the two nations," it said.

The newspaper said the talks "through a back channel" had encouraged London and Washington to believe that the "competition" between India and Pakistan for influence in Afghanistan could "be better managed during efforts to start a peace process."

"The settling of a disputed border at Sir Creek in the south, and the demilitarisation of the Siachen glacier in the north, are also being used to create an impression of diplomatic momentum," it said, adding despite "U.S. pressure and Mr. Singh's commitment" there were still substantial obstacles to a lasting thaw. These included access for Indian investigators to the suspected Pakistani conspirators behind the 26/11 Mumbai attacks.

New Delhi Bureau reports:

Senior officials were dismissive of British media reports that the Indian government was using a 'special envoy' to reach out to General Kayani. "We are already in touch, and have contacts with the Pakistani military at different levels," a highly placed source told The Hindu on Saturday.

He said there had been no special approach made since the Mohali match.

The Hindu has learned that the Pakistani side made a proposal last year for the commandant of its National Defence University to visit the Indian National Defence College in New Delhi. But even this proposal — the first exchange of this kind — failed to get off the ground because the Defence Ministry was not enthusiastic about it.

Eventually, the Pakistani side also stopped pressing the issue.

It just looks like a case of sensationalism of back channel contacts that GoI has had for many years now by The Times in UK.

But a few things that already do seem to be clear is that Pakistan still doesn't have a true civilian government and the army is still pretty much calling the shots like it did in the 90s on most issues.

 

[maomao]

@ Nitesh

Denial toh Aana hi tha....cuz it made M____ Mohan Singh look even more stupider than before, if not treacherously pushing country into chaos for dodging Corruption, Poverty and Nepotism charges!!

P.S: One man's stupidity is next man's advantage - surely savage pakistanis exploit this notion with India and that to again and again to the core, still we don't learn. Is our top brass so naive and low on intellect or it's just purely follow what US says attitude of this GOI and its cronies? Who knows about damage that has been done behind the scene by M___ Mohan Singh and his bunch of buffoons?

 

[Tronic]

'^^^^ Just because this gang of thugs is sitting next door, so we should go and offer our respect to its chief? Nice logic!

That is news to me; that our envoys go there to shower respect on PA army chief.

Firstly, who told you that Balochistan is a bargaining chip for India and how much do you know about India's activity in Balochistan?....Kindly keep in mind that all the information you receive regarding India's involvement there is from pakistanis sources, moreover pakistan started blaming India for their Balochistan problem due to India's involvement in AFG (as a Bargaining Chip), when Balochistan din't work they came out with another masterpiece that "Taliban" are Indian agents, no doubt pakistan made a mockery of themselves Internationally, but scored brownie points with their savage-delusional awam. However they will soon start blaming India for having control over militant mullahs in punjab.

You are right. We don't know if Balochistan is a bargaining chip for India.

That India had issued a statement to willingly sit and talk about Balochistan with Pakistan, indicates there is a lot us common folk don't know.

So in this unknown, you can either fill it up as GoI's stupidity, or however otherwise you wish to describe it; but this finger pointing is baseless, since they rely on speculation, not surety. The Afghans have cordial relations with the Bugtis, it would be foolish for India not to be involved in Balochistan. Ofcourse, than there is a whole definition of what "being involved" is.

All in all, I think we are both on the same page, we do not know what RAW is upto, or whether it is upto anything at all or not. Hence, crying foul at things the general public has no knowledge of is a bit undone, no?

I hope you realize we have very less or no participation in Balochistan, as this freedom movement dates back even before pakistan was created, and pakistan is heavily concentrating on projecting to the world that all terrorist activities in pakistan is linked to India.....in short by pakistan psyche - "if we are terrorists, then we will prove that India is also a terrorist, it does not matter by hook or crook".

I think it goes beyond than merely just a Pakistani ploy. You have to understand, the world is not black and white. Even the American spy recently caught was discovered with links to the Pakistani Taliban. The Americans too have helped the Balochi Bugti family escape from the reach of the ISI. All secret agencies play these unique games. I wouldn't be too happy if RAW was any less.

P.S: It's hard for this group of mercenaries (aka pakistan army) to explain to it's braindead-savage awam that how come "Hindu" India has progressed and their pure nation has failed and become a bankrupt state with a begging bowl in its hand even though they are "Allahs" dearest "Islamic" nation, hence Blame India, Israel and US at convenience. Moreover, it's a way to retain power and control over alms/aid/zakat, which is now being challenged by Mullahs whom they nurtured.

Now thats an entirely different topic. Pakistan has been eaten alive by various cancers, commonly found in all South Asian countries, though, India so far has done an excellent job of fighting these cancers and keeping them at bay, and inshallah, soon these problems will be eradicated from our own nation.

 

[maomao]

That is news to me; that our envoys go there to shower respect on PA army chief You are right. We don't know if Balochistan is a bargaining chip for India.

This exactly what our envoys have been doing.....even recent reports and articles suggest that!

That India had issued a statement to willingly sit and talk about Balochistan with Pakistan, indicates there is a lot us common folk don't know.

So in this unknown, you can either fill it up as GoI's stupidity, or however otherwise you wish to describe it; but this finger pointing is baseless, since they rely on speculation, not surety. The Afghans have cordial relations with the Bugtis, it would be foolish for India not to be involved in Balochistan. Ofcourse, than there is a whole definition of what "being involved" is.

Exactly where Indian diplomacy failed - Sharm-el-Sheikh is a classic example where our diplomats and politicians were trapped and in the end they had to go in denial mode!

As per Bughti (BLA) and Afghans (different militias) are concerned, they are two different movements/people, Baloch movement does not subscribe to Wahabbi mullahism, secondly, there is huge conflict between Bloch and Pashtuns in the north Balochistan (which is kind of lull at present due to a bigger common enemy i.e. pakistan Army). Hence, quoting them to be on the same page would be a grave error as Bughti/Marri stood for everything which was non-Afghan and non-punjab.

All in all, I think we are both on the same page, we do not know what RAW is upto, or whether it is upto anything at all or not. Hence, crying foul at things the general public has no knowledge of is a bit undone, no?

Maybe, however you are overestimating RAW, which has turnout to be a laughing stock in the spy world.....Its situation is no different than CBI, where people are appointed by NAC/PMO who do not even know "I" of intelligence but are loyalists of the dynasty! RAW and CBI are pets used as an instrument to blackmail and settle personal scores by this GOI. Hence, nepotism has creped in just to protect illi-doings of the dynasty and it's coterie.

I think it goes beyond than merely just a Pakistani ploy. You have to understand, the world is not black and white. Even the American spy recently caught was discovered with links to the Pakistani Taliban. The Americans too have helped the Balochi Bugti family escape from the reach of the ISI. All secret agencies play these unique games. I wouldn't be too happy if RAW was any less.

Surprisingly, world is black and white when it come to achieving objectives, all this diplomacy and shyt is mere a ploy......real work is done through subterfuge or direct action, it's that simple. I know it would be hard for you to believe as this is what we have grown up believing - that diplomacy is the answer to all the conflicts. However look up any history book and you will realize that this notion is BS, and it's opportunism, military strength and money which speaks, if you lack these then you are laughed upon if you call yourself diplomatic.

Now thats an entirely different topic. Pakistan has been eaten alive by various cancers, commonly found in all South Asian countries, though, India so far has done an excellent job of fighting these cancers and keeping them at bay, and inshallah, soon these problems will be eradicated from our own nation.

Can't say it better!

 

[nitesh]

@ Nitesh

Denial toh Aana hi tha....cuz it made M____ Mohan Singh look even more stupider than before, if not treacherously pushing country into chaos for dodging Corruption, Poverty and Nepotism charges!!

P.S: One man's stupidity is next man's advantage - surely savage pakistanis exploit this notion with India and that to again and again to the core, still we don't learn. Are our top brass so naive and low on intellect or it's just purely follow what US says attitude of this GOI and its cronies? Who knows about damage that has been done behind the scene by M___ Mohan Singh and his bunch of buffoons?

I some how think that this was not initiated by Mr. Manmohan, it was getting pushed around by pakistanis. India always interact with civilians (or at least holding some civilian position). But rest part I agree to great extent

 

[Yusuf]

Pak army has violated ceasefire. Looks like nothing happened. Kutte ki pooch tedi ki tedi rahegi.

 

[Phenom]

Now thats an entirely different topic. Pakistan has been eaten alive by various cancers, commonly found in all South Asian countries, though, India so far has done an excellent job of fighting these cancers and keeping them at bay, and inshallah, soon these problems will be eradicated from our own nation.

No Pakistan is being affected by a lot of problems that are not found in India, like total disregard for any minority rights, like obsession with militarism and a generic feeling that they are more superiors than their neighbour. IMO, This whole "South Asian" thing is a bunch of hogwash, India is nothing like Pakistan and I would really wish the North Indians would stop calling clubbing both our countries together. (Sorry to bring in a regional tint, but I always found that North Indians seems to consider Pakistan as some sort of long last brother, who they could reunite with in the future)

 

[anoop_mig25]

whats a guratee that a a new pak chief would follow same thinking as that of current pak army chief so why make such stupid steps . why our thinkers gives pak leadership whether civil or even militrary such importance.

 

[maomao]

No Pakistan is being affected by a lot of problems that are not found in India, like total disregard for any minority rights, like obsession with militarism and a generic feeling that they are more superiors than their neighbour. IMO, This whole "South Asian" thing is a bunch of hogwash, India is nothing like Pakistan and I would really wish the North Indians would stop calling clubbing both our countries together. (Sorry to bring in a regional tint, but I always found that North Indians seems to consider Pakistan as some sort of long last brother, who they could reunite with in the future)

I can understand what you mean, but trust me it's all corrupt media hype, nothing more, ask any North India who reads and has an ability to analyse stuff and you will know what type of long lost "brothers" we are (not even illiterates would take these deluded kaum as slaves). The whole BS the media propagates is to appease the savages and barbarians living shamelessly across the border. Our dumb sold out mediamen such as Burkha Dutt (the dallal) is completely off tangent and present what the high command orders them to say, however no one here takes it hands down, moreover this obnoxious notion is constantly shoved down our throats by our sold-out media and spineless politicians, who do not want any obstacles (i.e a war like situation which could stop the flow of moolah ) in their corrupt money making spree!!

 

[Tronic]

This exactly what our envoys have been doing.....even recent reports and articles suggest that!

Our media is anything but professional, and you have to look beyond their sensationalizing of every little thing and grasp the actual news. We do not have an NYT or Washington Post, who are actually deeply embedded in every sphere of their news. Our media is that which will mix up jets with missiles, and etiquette with policy. There is nothing more the Indian media can suggest to us, they have the same sources of information as us; foreign media, and GoI press releases.

Exactly where Indian diplomacy failed - Sharm-el-Sheikh is a classic example where our diplomats and politicians were trapped and in the end they had to go in denial mode!

Nope, only one who was trapped was the UPA government due to the opposition. Its all politics! India, was never trapped as such; we have played on to the fear of the Pakistanis; whether successfully or not, we'll never know, as we don't happen to have an ear on the channels the GoI has open with the Pakistanis.

As per Bughti (BLA) and Afghans (different militias) are concerned, they are two different movements/people, Baloch movement does not subscribe to Wahabbi mullahism, secondly, there is huge conflict between Bloch and Pashtuns in the north Balochistan (which is kind of lull at present due to a bigger common enemy i.e. pakistan Army). Hence, quoting them to be on the same page would be a grave error as Bughti/Marri stood for everything which was non-Afghan and non-punjab.

You are clubbing Afghans and the Taliban together as one, they are not.

It where the Afghanis and the Americans, which helped Bugti's sons get out away from the reach of the ISI. It was one of the sour points of the Afghanistan-Pakistan relationship. The Afghanis were returning the favour to the Pakistanis for supporting the Taliban against them.

Maybe, however you are overestimating RAW, which has turnout to be a laughing stock in the spy world.....Its situation is no different than CBI, where people are appointed by NAC/PMO who do not even know "I" of intelligence but are loyalists of the dynasty! RAW and CBI are pets used as an instrument to blackmail and settle personal scores by this GOI. Hence, nepotism has creped in just to protect illi-doings of the dynasty and it's coterie.

CBI and RAW are two very different organizations. Internally, India is corrupted to the core. RAW is an external agency, and we may once again bring up how IK Gujral screwed RAW but that was more than a decade ago. Its simply foolish to assume that RAW is lying flat on its back still licking its wounds.

And laughing stock in the spy world? You must have some really close relations with the covert world to know this, I assume? I do not know if I am overestimating, as I do not know what exactly all RAW does (and that is something none of us should know), but you surely are underestimating the agency. RAW has managed to keep a very low profile, as all good covert agencies should do. Maybe this is what irks some Indians.

Surprisingly, world is black and white when it come to achieving objectives, all this diplomacy and shyt is mere a ploy......real work is done through subterfuge or direct action, it's that simple. I know it would be hard for you to believe as this is what we have grown up believing - that diplomacy is the answer to all the conflicts. However look up any history book and you will realize that this notion is BS, and it's opportunism, military strength and money which speaks, if you lack these then you are laughed upon if you call yourself diplomatic.

Direct action? You mean like how the Americans did in Afghanistan? Or the Israelis do in Palestine? The world is not black and white.

And Diplomatically, India has done wonders against Pakistan. It has finally shook itself away out of the India-Pak equation, and has shown Pakistan as an irresponsible nation to the world. "Direct action" and all that hollywood gung-ho stuff doesn't always work in the real world.

 

[Tronic]

No Pakistan is being affected by a lot of problems that are not found in India, like total disregard for any minority rights, like obsession with militarism and a generic feeling that they are more superiors than their neighbour.

All those are the symptoms of the cancer infecting that country. They are looking for their opium, and religion alone just isn't cutting it (as that country is not as radical as they may be perceived). Give that country prosperity, and their religion goes back from fanatic to normal. Ofcourse, prosperity is something only they can willingly achieve, not something which can be handed to them, and that seems to be the one thing the Pakistanis are very bad at achieving.

IMO, This whole "South Asian" thing is a bunch of hogwash, India is nothing like Pakistan and I would really wish the North Indians would stop calling clubbing both our countries together. (Sorry to bring in a regional tint, but I always found that North Indians seems to consider Pakistan as some sort of long last brother, who they could reunite with in the future)

No one wishes to 're-unite' with Pakistan. India is nothing like Pakistan, as India has thankfully shaped itself on much better principles than Pakistan. On a people to people level, hate it or live with it, but they are no different than us. The inbred bias filled in both sides gets each side running towards denial, yet its true. I see no difference between the people of two sides except for their opposing biases towards one another. As for Pakistani power structure, it is run by Punjabis, and politically that has never bode well; take one look at Indian Punjab and see. India works because of our diversity, left individually or being run by one dominant ethnic group, no doubt we too would have been a failed state. We have got each other to cover our weaknesses, something the Pakistanis will never have.

 

[Oracle]

No Pakistan is being affected by a lot of problems that are not found in India, like total disregard for any minority rights, like obsession with militarism and a generic feeling that they are more superiors than their neighbour.

Agreed!

IMO, This whole "South Asian" thing is a bunch of hogwash, India is nothing like Pakistan and I would really wish the North Indians would stop calling clubbing both our countries together. (Sorry to bring in a regional tint, but I always found that North Indians seems to consider Pakistan as some sort of long last brother, who they could reunite with in the future)

Who fed you that?