Lungs comparison a person in Himachal and Delhi

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by Bornubus, Dec 11, 2015.

  1. Bornubus

    Bornubus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Since pollution,climate change and Even odd debate is going on in the country ... Below is the comparison between the lungs of a 55 year old man in Delhi (critically affected by pollution) and Himachal Pradesh (non industrial state).

    So pollution is eating us from within.

    unnamed.jpg

    Pic courtesy - DR Naresh Trehan, Medanta medicity - Gurgaon.
     
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  3. Bornubus

    Bornubus Senior Member Senior Member

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    For my part,i will plant few tress every year and give up firecrackers on diwali.

    images (99).jpg
     
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  4. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    I have always spoken in favor of living at my ancestral place, but again due to lack of sustainable urbanisation, thanks to our state governments, people don't move there. But it's good.. less crowd, more healthy environment. :)
     
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  5. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    But now there is a problem, i.e. tourists are coming and they are care less. They pollute the hills a lot. And then when locals do objection they call them aggressive. This is very wrong.

    Strict laws must be there to protect the eco system there. If this continues, then I am afraid, it will destroy or inhabitant place, like what they have done to delhi.

    We should copy semi european modal for development.

    1) Only Euro 3 cars or above must be allowed.

    2) Limited diesel vehicles

    3) Proper sanitation and waste disposal

    4) Priority to solar power.

    5) Check on climate and early warning system in case of earthquake or floods.
     
  6. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    You do realize that if your ancestral place urbanizes, it will also see an increase in pollution, right?
     
  7. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    yes it would. But if law is strict gov. can control it, as one can switch to wooden/polyurethane houses, electric heaters, rather wood. can reduce carbon and sulphur emission.
     
  8. Bornubus

    Bornubus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Govt of uttarakhand is fooling the native people, i have several garhwali and kumaoni friends as i lived in Roorkee cantonment .... Entire villages in hill dist like chamoli and Gopeshwar are completely empty with Locked houses,in some villages only 4 -5 older people.

    While the people of the plains enjoying the benefits especially Muslims under congress rule,they do illegal Khannan under congress govt thereby damaging the environment.
     
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  9. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Not only tourists. The locals are no better and have pretty horrible civic sense.
     
  10. BATTLE FIELD

    BATTLE FIELD Battle Captain

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  11. AnantS

    AnantS Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well BornuBus, just replace the name uttarakhand with Himachal and you have same story, same culprits, with added info, Himachal was free of muzzies after 47(barring minuscule population of hinduesque muzzie gujjjars ), inspite of Land Reform Act of 72, muzzies from BIMARU have been imported en masse.
     
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  12. AnantS

    AnantS Senior Member Senior Member

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    The Himalayan states ought to ban choking of Nullahs/Rivulets for construction. This is going to bite them hard. Afforestation has to be done.

    Haphazard construction esp along/near Riverbeds, are an eyesore as well dangerous as seen in recent UK floods.

    Hydro Power is good, micro hydro power projects are more better. But big Hydro projects put a lot of pressure on ecology of Himalayas. What blasting of the hills for making tunnels in Himalayan regions can do, can be seen when you visit Kinnaur distt, and see how the Jaypee Power plants have literally shutdown the imp Tapri-Urni NH-5 due to more frequent landslides.

    Also there ought to be urban planning and waste management esp in touristy areas. Otherwise sometimes one wonders when they visit such tourist place, is it A Hill Station or A Hill of Garbage and filth station?

    I think SEZ's for clean industries should only be in ultra Eco-Sensitive states. Himalayan states on whom whole plains extending from N.W to N.E India depend. This will provide better employment opportunities who otherwise only depend on Army, Police, Education & Other state govt jobs Or some small time business.
     
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  13. saty

    saty Tihar Jail Banned

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    Bull shit .... How can any-one take one case from Delhi and conclude all Delhities lungs are like that?

    IS Doc is genuine or playing for publicity/money?

    We are least emitting country.

    Why always Delhi is targeted like 'RAPE CAPITAL of India/World' 'POLLUTED CAPITAL of India/world' not any other CITY.btw these stats are not genuine and/or malicious.

    Because, they know DELHI=INDIA and BEIJING=CHINA so no west'n media NOT care about even Shanghai and Mumbai largest cities in respective countries.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2015
  14. Bornubus

    Bornubus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Dr trehan is one of the leading doctor and pioneer in the field of cardiology in India and pollution is really a problem so does climate change,its 12 dec,the winter has not yet come like it used to be 10 years ago,similar situation with monsoon.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naresh_Trehan
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2015
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  15. Bornubus

    Bornubus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Heart expert Naresh Trehan says curbing pollution only way out for Delhi
    India Today spoke to India's top doctor Dr Naresh Trehan about Delhi's pollution issue.

    [​IMG]
    IndiaToday.in
    New Delhi, December 10, 2015 | Posted by Arunava Chatterjee | UPDATED 23:21 IST
    A +A -


    [​IMG]



    Now China may have declared a pollution alert in its capital Beijing, but the reality is that Delhi's pollution worse. Now, in fact, 3 to 4 times worse. While politicians bicker on what steps need to be taken, it's the residents of the capital who are taking a direct hit to their health. For a definitive view on what is the threat to us actually, India Today spoke to India's top doctor Dr Naresh Trehan on the issue.

    Sanket Upadhyay:
    Now we all know that there is massive pollution in the city of Delhi. There is smog and all of you are worried that with these alarming rise in levels, should you be staying in the city? Should you be concerned about your health? Should you be concerned about your children's health? What should you actually be doing if you are in the national capital or in the areas adjoining the national capital. Well, to talk about all these things, I have the expert himself, the man who'd know all the answers to some basic questions.

    Dr Trehan, thank you very much for speaking to India Today. The one thing that comes to the mind of a lot of people, I am sure it comes to you also... you have children, you have grandchildren. What should one do? By seeing these dramatic numbers going up, air quality index dipping... how much concerned should a Delhiite be today?

    Dr Trehan: Okay, I don't have all the answers, but I can put some perspective on it. You see, I operate every day on hearts and while doing that we also look at the lungs of people so we know what effect the quality of the air is doing to the lungs of residents of different areas. If you look at it, if you look at people from urban areas like Delhi, especially from Delhi, we have pictures like this where you will see that there is a huge amount of charcoal deposit, it's like what we call almost black lungs.

    Ads by ZINC

    SU: Oh God, that's a Delhi lung?!

    NT: That's a Delhi lung.

    SU: Does that mean Dr Trehan that this is the standard lung of a person living in Delhi for 10 years maybe?

    NT: It looks like that. I've seen it hundreds of times, and definitely, if you look at it in contrast with people who live in rural areas or hilly areas like people from Himachal and all... same age... this gentleman comes from Himachal, and you can see the difference. This is what the normal lung should be. The pinkness of the lung tissue because there's blood flowing through it exchanging oxygen. So this stark contrast tells the whole story. It's saying that look if you are being exposed to this kind of pollution for prolonged periods of time, this is what it will look like.

    SU: How many years are we talking about?

    NT: This gentleman is 52-years-old. But till 10 years ago, there was very little pollution, in fact we had a crisis 10 years ago and after looking at these lungs, at pictures like these, at that time, there was a huge movement for moving towards CNG and there was Justice Kuldeep Singh who became the Green Judge and he, having looked at the pictures I had presented at a conference, just obsessively went after it and you can see what benefits we got from CNG. But unfortunately, though all those benefits have been neutralised by now. So we know from the past experience that it is going to be a hard decision on our part. There will be some hardship along the way, but if you want to save yourself, if you want to save your family, if you want to leave(?) the generations for your grandchildren and the future of humanity, we must act now. It is a huge problem, we see it every day. Numbers... When you look at numbers of the degree of pollution, the quantum particulate count, the noxious gases count, it alarms you, but it's very difficult to visualise what it is doing to you. So there are two parts to it. One is what it is doing to your lungs. Particulate matters, especially is the guilty party here. Second is the noxious gases, they affect your lungs and you develop interstitial lung disease. You will have problems as you go forward, you will have bronchospasms, you'll get asthma and now you worry about that if it's doing this to the adults, what is it doing to our children and grandchildren?

    [​IMG]
    A comparison between the lungs of a person from Himachal Pradesh and another who breathes Delhi's air.


    SU: Absolutely, because that's the future.

    NT: Yes, they are definitely, because they are growing, their tissues are multiplying faster than ours. So they are actually more vulnerable, specially for their lungs and neurological status, because if you see the Nitric Oxide and all these SPO2, SO2... these are the noxious gases and they actually come from emission even from petrol... petrol engines... so it's not that petrol engines are innocent. Diesels are worse in the sense that they spew out huge amount of particulate, suspended particulate matter which goes directly into our lungs. So, having put that perspective in front of you and the whole community, we now know what to do. So, everything that we can do is going to add up a little bit and even that is not going to solve the problem. So we need to solve the crisis today and we need to plan for the future.

    SU: Dr Trehan, one major concern is the fact that I have a child who is 2 and another child who is 4. They keep coughing. I am assuming that these are the pollution levels that are causing this sort of symptoms in them. There are many like me who are thinking the same way. Many people often quip saying that its almost like children smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. I don't know whether that is correct or not because people get concerned. What should they be doing about their children?

    NT: So, what you are worried about and what you are wondering is pretty close to the truth. If you have a huge amount of contamination in the air, it's all going inside you and when in that contamination if you have noxious gases that's also being absorbed and going to your full body. So what are the most vulnerable organs in our body at this stage specially for children growing up. It's their lungs because of the particulate matter and the noxious gases, the neurological, the brain, the nervous tissue and what's developing very rapidly and if that gets affected you can imagine, you may have a whole generation of people who are affected by all this. So, asthma, bronchospasm, irritation... it comes from irritation of the lungs and it's a natural thing, you don't have to wonder if there is so much suspended partice you will definitely get irritation in your lungs. Like you said it's like living in a gas chamber or smoking a pack of cigarettes or whatever you may call it. So what do we do?

    SU: Running away from Delhi not an option... not an option for anyone of us.

    NT: You know, this is not. Which city are you going to because there's varying degrees, right? So... Some cities in the south, I think Chennai had a lower level, but then it got flooded, so there's no escape. You have to stand your ground and fight and fight will mean that we not only blame the government, the government is to blame too for a lot of things in the sense that they were supposed to have built, not from now, from the CNG crisis, a bypass to Delhi so that the trucks would actually bypass Delhi but nothing happened. Why it didn't happen somebody should ask. Somebody should ask and correct it. The courts are stepping in but look it has to go on war footing. Like you are actually at war, because this is a situation which is a daily minute-by-minute contamination of our whole population. So we must get rid of the trucks. Now, just be increasing the toll on it, they pass it on to the customer. You know how much you can charge? There's no stopping them. He's just saying, now I have to pay toll so you please pay me extra. That didn't solve the problem. That I think is not a good solution. The solution... look, we've been saying it for years. Why has anybody not, mainly the government, not said 'carpooling'. Carpooling, if you start thinking and then impose on top of it the odd and even it will compel people to look and it's got multiple benefits. It saves the environment, it saves you money, it creates social contact with each other and ultimately, the community is more responsible, responsive to your environment. They feel good about it. So if you have multiple benefits of doing things like carpooling or alternate day or say stop somebody who is burning leaves or report them... you know those kind of things, once the community gets involved, I think it will become a movement...

    SU: Dr Trehan, this is something that is going to show its effect in the long run or in the medium to long run. As an immediate solution to someone who is suffering irritation, specially for children. Do masks work? Are they any effective?

    NT: Okay. First of all, let me differ with you. The effect is today. It was yesterday. The number of people we are seeing coming to the hospital with asthma, with irritation to their throats, coughing like incessantly, every second person is coughing and mistakenly they take antibiotics, the antibiotics don't work, it continues, it is basically the culprit is the environment.

    Okay, now masks. So masks have for suspended particulate matter, of course masks will help some. Noxious gases do not get stopped by the common mask. You need those special masks which are not practical today, okay. So yes, when and if need be, use it, but look at the psychological effect on the children of growing up wearing a mask saying that you are living in a gas chamber and what do they think their parents are doing to them is to say you are making us live in a pit like this. So I think that in the short term, yes, whatever protection you can get and the protection may be, that you avoid playing in the outdoors, use the filter, because you know if you have closed air and use your filter, it will reduce it definitely. Second is that if you are growing in an obviously so contaminated an area, I think masks is a good idea. Why should we expose ourselves and so masks is a good idea, but not all day and all through school. So school should also measure outside things and inside the rooms and try to do more indoor games and if the alert is so high, then by all means shut the school. We do it for floods, we do it for snow, we do it for many reasons. We do it for festivals. This is your survival.

    SU: China has declared a national alert for three days.

    NT: Right. So we have to be responsive, we can't. We do it for floods, we do it for snow, we do it for many reasons. We do it for festivals. This is your survival.

    SU: China has declared a national alert for three days.

    NT: Right. So we have to be responsive, we can't. We can't be fooling the public. We must say: yes it's bad. Let's take the holidays. Now extend the holidays today and maybe shorten them somewhere else. There's no reason. Every measure we take today is going to help and I think ultimately it will create that environment or the alarm in the government that people are not going to tolerate it. The government will do what they can do. The people should do what they can do. We should do what we can do. It is a collective war. The responsibility of mobilising the public, or the civic society, lies with the government, which has the means of doing it. Every pollutant, no matter how small it is, must be stopped. If you don't act now, you'll regret it in times to come.

    SU: In a weird way pollution is sort of a leveller. It is not differentiate between the lungs of a poor person or a rich person. It's affecting everybody's lungs.

    NT: Yes, some rich people ran away to London or some other place. That is not India. They are individual survivors and they do what they want to do, in fact they pollute the most anyway. If they go it's OK. It's not to be distracted by other aspects, but to come to the core - There are people who are fighting. We should all join our forces and actually do something.

    I will give you an example. Whoever can get a hybrid should go and get a hybrid car. Definitely less polluting. Whoever can drive a smaller car, can drive a smaller car. No matter there's a law or not, start car-pooling, stagger the office hours so that there is no jam. The maximum pollution comes from traffic jam. It's in the government's hands. You tell your corporations to start at 8, 9, 0r 10. Get off at 4,5,6 or 7 accordingly. It will stagger the traffic. Have policemen available at every choking point. There are gridlocks everywhere because we do not have civic sense. We should demand it today. You are doing a great job, and people like you will spread the message faster. Let the public react. Everybody can help.

    There's a great Japanese story. There's a raging fire in a forest. All the big animals - lions, tigers, hippos - they are all running. They suddenly stop and see in the air a little hummingbird. The hummingbird is picking up a drop of water and putting it on the raging fire - to and fro. These guys laughed at her and call her stupid. So she says - I may be stupid, but I am doing what I can. It's relevant today.

    SU: Being a doctor, the solutions you are providing are more for the society, not particularly medical solutions for the problem.

    NT: We'll help people who get affected, but the issue is much larger. It is a question of survival and this is not going away today. It's not going away next year unless we change it. Worse is going to come because in January it actually will become a gas chamber. The environment becomes so contained, it actually descends. The whole smog gets trapped in between.

    SU: One of the questions people have asked is that can or should they install air purifiers at home as perhaps a ways and means of reducing those particulate matter? Does this help?

    NT: Most definitely. It helps to reduce the particulate matter. It has an ioniser inside. It attracts the particles and traps them. So there are ones with filters, ones with many technologies. It does help. There are many other techniques by the way. People ask me how can we increase the oxygen in the room. If you have filtered air, and you do frequent exchanges so that the particulate matter is not coming in. You can. If you put greenery and blow over greenery, it improves the oxidation.

    Ultimately the problem belongs to all of us, and we have to take some action, especially for the sake of our children.
     
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  16. saty

    saty Tihar Jail Banned

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    @Bornubus Dr trehan is one of the leading doctor and pioneer in the field of cardiology in India...........Even Billionaire kutte KHANS are playing games for money&publicity.He is not famous or rich like them.

    pollution is really a problem..................India is not industrially developed country and our percapita emission is very less so really no problem.

    climate change........................ is fake

    its 12 dec,the winter has not yet come like it used to be 10 years ago,similar situation with monsoon........ Fluctuations are common many many monsoons were failed &PEOPLE were STARVED TO DEATH in India in British period&before.
     
  17. bhai-117

    bhai-117 Regular Member

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    Next you will deny that the holocaust ever happened and say that MODI is a reptillian :hehe:
     
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  18. Bornubus

    Bornubus Senior Member Senior Member

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    That were the famines during British period now we have more and more droughts,learn the difference similarly earlier there were continues rains for several days in monsoons now its rare.
     
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  19. Bornubus

    Bornubus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Muslim gujjars are real menace in Himalayan states as they enjoy traditional and exclusive rights to live in forests,i have even saw them in reserve forests (around rajaji national park and outskirts of corbett) although they have enough money earned from dairy business to settle outside forests.

    Their link with poachers has already surfaced.
     
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  20. Bornubus

    Bornubus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Nothing can be done about that,tourism is the main source of livelihood and revenue in hill states.
     
  21. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    Earlier when Khanduri was the CM. They did develop the roads, with sustainable development, like solar power can be generated. More over they had started to plan to setup waste disposal facility and afforestation. But then this Rawat came and I do not know what this guy is upto.

    Whatever is being done is at plain areas of UK. After floods, there was very little government help. Whatever has been done is because every family has a soldier in army hence Army directly with no time waste came in. But then came this news of corruption under this congress CM.

    What they have done with Dehradoon, one can see. It was once really planned. Now it's a slum.

    A lot of things can be done easily, as IIT roorkee is there, IMA is there, remote sensing institute is there. But see these guys. No taking help of these institutes.
     

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