Lokpal Thread

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by Singh, Dec 11, 2011.

  1. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Anna Hazare Reaches Delhi For Fast


    NEW DELHI: Veteran social activist Anna Hazare, who reached New Delhi for Sunday's day-long token fast, said the "second fight for independence" has started which will go on till corruption is eradicated.
    "So many martyrs lost their lives for our independence, but even today, we cannot experience independence. Who got independent ? What independence. Corruption, loot is still here. Only 'goras' (whites) left and 'kalas' (blacks) came in, that is the only difference," Hazare said. "We are still fighting. We will fast for one day tomorrow (Sunday) at Jantar Mantar," he added.

    Terming the government's version of the bill as weak, Hazare said it would not help to eradicate corruption from the country . "We appeal to the people that the Lokpal bill, which has been introduced in Parliament by the standing committee, is a government bill. "Six months before , we had said the government bill is weak and the bill cannot root out the corruption from this country and the poor people will not get justice. So, the government bill is not correct and it is weak," he said. "We urge them to bring Jan Lokpal bill, this was our demand. After the meetings of the standing committee and joint committee and rest of the meeting which had taken place, finally, the government has brought about their version of the bill," he added.

    Team Anna has invited all political parties, including the Congress and the BJP for Hazare's day long fast to be held at Jantar Mantar on Sunday. Meanwhile, on Saturday the prime minister called for an all-party meeting on Wednesday to discuss the Lokpal Bill.

    Anna Hazare reaches Delhi for fast - The Economic Times
     
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  3. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    ^^

    I see those quotes:
    • "second fight for independence"
    • "So many martyrs lost their lives for our independence, but even today, we cannot experience independence. Who got independent ? What independence. Corruption, loot is still here. Only 'goras' (whites) left and 'kalas' (blacks) came in, that is the only difference," Hazare said. "We are still fighting. We will fast for one day tomorrow (Sunday) at Jantar Mantar," he added.
    Sounds very much like the Naxalite propaganda of the sixties and seveties.
     
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  4. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    If this is true, we have about 10% or so of the participants in the gathering who are just journalists!
     
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  5. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    One of the reason why Anna may not have got such a mammoth gathering is because as a whole, the people feel that the Govt will implement a strong Lok Pal Bill after much posturing.

    It is only if the Govt does not present a strong Lok Pal Bill will the Movement take the avatar of the last civil society protest.
     
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  6. SLASH

    SLASH Senior Member Senior Member

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    These are facts not propaganda.
     
  7. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    I, for one, do not like the politicization of this gathering. He should have kept the movement apolitical.

    I especially detest the fact that regressive and poisonous people like Brinda Karat were allowed to speak in this rally. Brinda Karat was spewing poisonous rhetoric about the "ill effects of liberalization and how it should be rolled back". I hated that.

    The biggest enemies of India today, are people with commie tendencies who want to drag us back into the licence-permit raj. In other words, people like Brinda Karat. Henceforth, if Anna is not careful about the kinds of people who are allowed space in his rallies, I will see his movement as being harmful for the nation too, (albeit out of ignorance, not malice).

    Make no mistake - the single biggest danger to India is the hordes of commie leaning people who want to drag the nation back to days of beggary, IMF bailouts, NehruGandhi rate of growth, etc. Such people are the worst enemies of the nation.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2011
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  8. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    Well anna has the same stance.

    In anycase all sharabis have abandoned anna :pound:
     
  9. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Well, for the nationalists, these are 'facts' when Anna says so but 'propaganda by Chinese agents' when Naxalites say so; and the other way around for the leftists.

    I agree, from either point of view, these are indeed facts, at least ipso facto!
     
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  10. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Lokpal all-party meet: will there be a consensus?


    New Delhi: The Prime Minister has called for an all-party meeting over the Lokpal Bill issue on Wednesday, where the UPA will try its best to achieve a breakthrough and it remains to be seen whether consensus will emerge on contentious issues.

    Trying to build a consensus within the UPA, the Prime Minister met all allies on Tuesday night, including the new member Ajit Singh, who will be the new Civil Aviation Minister.

    Home Minister P Chidambaram, after the meeting said that a broad consensus has emerged within the UPA II. "The allies were present and they expressed their views on the Lokpal Bill. Ajit Singh was present for the first time. There is a broad consensus on the approach of the UPA II alliance," he said.

    Under extreme pressure from the Opposition and Team Anna, sources say the government may agree to include Group C bureaucrats and the Prime Minister under Lokpal, but with riders.

    The BJP, which also participated in Anna Hazare's open debate on the Lokpal Bill on Sunday, claims it will not accept anything that falls short of the two clauses.

    The BJP and BSP have planned to oppose the Standing Committee's Lokpal Bill draft in the all-party meeting.

    The BJP also plans to move an amendment motion on Lokpal if their demands are not met. The BJP will press for the inclusion of the Prime Minister, lower bureaucracy and Citizens' Charter under Lokpal at the all-party meeting and will move amendments in the Bill after consultation with other parties in case the government does not accept its proposals.

    Earlier on Tuesday, Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister and BSP leader Mayawati also made it clear that her party will not support the bill in its current form. She also alleged that the UPA was not bringing a strong Lokpal Bill in Parliament as such a move will affect the Congress the most.

    The CPM also trained guns at the government saying they want the Prime Minister and Group C and D bureaucrats under the Lokpal Bill.

    Meanwhile, Team Anna's Core Committee will also meet in New Delhi for two days from Wednesday to chalk out future plans, including the proposed Ramlila Maidan agitation, if a strong Lokpal Bill is not passed in the ongoing winter session of Parliament.
     
  11. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    It’s too early to celebrate govt’s frenzy on anti-graft bills


    The tone-deaf UPA government appears suddenly to be sensitive to the moral and political pressure exerted by Team Anna to frame an anti-corruption agency, but in the fine details of its actions, there is still much mischief afoot.

    Displaying uncharacteristic agility, the Union Cabinet cleared what it claimed were three major anti-corruption bills – on judicial accountability, on enforcing a citizen’s charter, and on protecting whistleblowers.

    Coming just a day ahead of today’s all-party meeting to finalise the draft of the Lokpal Bill, to be introduce in Parliament, the frenzied action was perhaps intended to signal the government was earnest about combating corruption. Media headlines certainly appear to convey that sentiment.


    The rush of anti-corruption bills cleared by Cabinet hasn't convinced critics of the government's intent. Reuters

    But since the substance of the three bills as approved by cabinet is cloaked in secrecy, even legal experts who have been campaigning for long for these measures are in the dark about its provisions. They are therefore justifiably sceptical about the bills – and, at least until the details are made known, they are right to be wary.

    As Prashant Bhushan, one of the core members of Team Anna, who has been campaigning for long for a Judicial Accountability Commission, noted on CNN-IBN, if the judicial accountability bill as passed by the Cabinet yesterday is the same as the ones that had been under consideration earlier, it doesn’t go far enough .

    “That bill does not set up any system for any criminal investigation of corruption in the judiciary,” he noted. All it does is talk of “judicial misconduct” – which is different from corruption. And even with misconduct, the bill as was under consideration earlier, sets up an oversight committee – to which a complaint against a judge would go – and a screening committee, to which the complaint would be sent next.

    The screening committee as envisaged would consist of two brother judges of the same court and one retired retired chief justice of the same court. Such an incestuous arrangement – of brother judges sitting in judgement over their peers –doesn’t augur well for the credibility of the process.

    Even the oversight committee consists of two judges and two members appointed by the government, and in that sense is neither independent of the judiciary nor of the government. Bhushan’s long-standing demand has been that the Judicial Accountability Commission should a full-time body that is fully independent of both the government and the judiciary.

    Former Solicitor-General Harish Salve, who too said he hadn’t seen the details of the bills as approved by Cabinet, says that Bhushan’s scepticism of the independence of the judicial accountability mechanism is undestandable.

    Pointing to the Chief Justice’s comments – that “a citizen is entitled to a clean man in a black robe” – Salve said: “If we had clean men in black robes, we wouldn’t need a Judicial Accountability Commission.”

    Given that need, the system that is being created “should not look incestuous,” he adds. “If you have colleague brothers judging the conduct of fellow judges, you have not improved institutional credibility,” says Salve.

    Even the standing committee of parliament had observed that it was unwise to have judges from the same court, and if the bill as approved by Cabinet had retained that provision, there is a problem, he adds.

    But in his estimation, “the most crying need” is to fix the process of appointment of judges, and in that context, the present system of appointments, which had been around since 1991, has not worked. “It cannot be a case of ‘of the judiciary, for the judiciary, by the judiciary’ as it is now.”

    Bhushan rebutted the criticism that Team Anna was dictating every punctuation mark in the proposed pieces of anti-corruption legislation, and usurping the parliament’s right to make law. “If you want a credible arrangement, you must set up a body independent of the government that is empowered to investigate charges and punish the guilty… If you set up bodies that are riddled with conflicts of interest or are not empowered to criminally investigate judges for corruption, and then you claim that you have brought this bill, it amounts to window-dressing.”

    The government, says Bhushan, is trying to make a show that they are serious about dealing with corruption, but it ultimately depends on the details in the bill.

    Salve said that while he did not agree with Team Anna’s “my way or the highway” approach, he felt that it was “perfectly within its rights to say ‘give us the details of the bill and let us debate.’”

    Citizens should be able to discuss bills that parliament was considering and be free to debate their merits in public spaces. “This notion of secrecy under which governments operate must end.”
     
  12. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    CBI unhappy with issues related to Lokpal bill

    NEW DELHI: The Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) on Tuesday wrote to the government, expressing its unhappiness over various issues related to Lokpal bill, saying many of the clauses would severely impair the functioning of the agency.

    In its letter to the Department of Personnel and Training (DoPT), the CBI said the proposed move to make preliminary enquiry (PE) by Lokpal mandatory before cases come to it will "severely impair" effectiveness of the agency in anti-corruption cases since it would lose the "surprise element" to carry out search operations.

    At present, the agency gathers information from various sources and plans and executes a search operation to collect documents and evidence but if PE by Lokpal is made compulsory, it would lose the "surprise element" to carry out such operations. The agency cited lack of enthusiasm about the recommendations of parliamentary standing committee on Lokpal bill that all complaints of corruption cases other than trap cases shall first be scrutinized by Lokpal by holding a PE. A PE is conducted only when the available information or complaint about serious misconduct on the part of a public servant is not adequate to justify registration of a regular case.

    The CBI has opposed the recommendation of multiple supervisions by various departments and ministries, including DoPT, law ministry and Lokpal, arguing that it would cramp its functioning.

    The agency opposed the proposal to create an independent prosecution wing under the supervision of Lokpal as recommended by the parliamentary panel. Sources said, "Separation of prosecution from investigation agency may result in sharp decline in conviction rate as has happened in various states."

    The CBI objected to certain other provisions recommended by the committee which says that CBI charge sheet or closure report under sections 173 of CrPC must be filed after taking approval of Lokpal, arguing this goes against the objectives of the keeping the agency autonomous, not answerable or liable to be monitored by either the administrative ministry or Lokpal and protect the integrity of investigation.

    It is also cut up over the non-inclusion of the proposal of constituting a panel - comprising the PM, the Leader of Opposition and any other constitutional authority - for the selection of the agency's director.
     
  13. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    ^^All the chors trying to come to a consensus about a kanoon that will put them behind bars! Must be quite funny to be in that meeting! :pound:
     
  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Either these organisations like the CBI, CAG, CVC all be made beyond Govt control to include nominating people to these organisations or let it come under the Lok Pal.

    All Govts use them as their handmaidens.

    That is why the Laloos, Mulayams and Mayawatis can be blackmailed to toe the Govt line when it suits the political party in power to escape embarrassment anywhere, to include in the voting at the Parliament!
     
  15. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Lokpal: All-party meet over, deadlock remains


    New Delhi: The all-party meet on Lokpal Bill held at Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's residence on Wednesday failed to reach a consensus.

    All the parties, reportedly, stuck to their stated stands.

    Addressing mediapersons after the meeting, Lok Janshakti Party (LJP) chief Ram Vilas Paswan said that all the parties, including the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) asked the government to not take any decision on Lokpal in haste.

    He further said that all the parties were of the opinion that the Lokpal must not affect the supremacy of Parliament.

    Meanwhile, CPM leader Sitaram Yechury said that they were in the favour of the government bringing the bill in this session, adding that they wanted the Prime Minister and Group C and D bureaucrats under the ambit of Lokpal.

    "The government has not given any assurance about bringing the bill in this session, but we have asked them to bring it in this session," said Yechury.

    Referring to the issue of inclusion of the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI), Yechury said that the Lokpal must have its own investigation agency.

    Earlier, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had said that he was keen to see the "momentous" Lokpal Bill passed during the current session of Parliament based on a consensus that was driven by the House as the "custodian of legislation".

    "The government is committed to implement in letter and spirit a good and effective Lokpal Bill that would have a quick and positive impact in further curbing the cancer of corruption without any adverse effects on the efficiency of our system of public administration," he said in his opening remarks at the all-party meet.

    Seeking "guidance and cooperation in this matter of paramount importance", Singh said the Lokpal Bill issue should not be subjected to party politics.
     
  16. Nagraj

    Nagraj Regular Member

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    I don't support anna.
    and people around me all of them support anna.
    the curious thing in my circle is that people who don't anna do so because they are congress supporters.
    where as i neither like anna nor like congress.
    am i rthe only one help !:shocked:
     
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  17. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    It means you are sane person who thinks for himself.
     
  18. SpArK

    SpArK SORCERER Senior Member

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    Read the full text of the Lokpal Bill here



    Lokpal
     
  19. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    News flash; Lokpal bill passed with amendments..
     
  20. TheLord

    TheLord Regular Member

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    And those who doesn't agree with the congress are called anti-secular, communal and RSS agents.
     
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  21. Param

    Param Senior Member Senior Member

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    You are not alone.
    You spoke my mind.
     

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