LoC firing, drone shot down: Is Pakistan army deliberately derailing peace talks with India?

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by Zebra, Jul 18, 2015.

  1. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2015/07/loc-firing-drone-shot-down-is-pakistan.html

    LoC firing, drone shot down: Is Pakistan army deliberately derailing peace talks with India?

    Saturday, July 18, 2015 by Indiandefense News

    Just days after the ice-breaker meeting between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his Pakistani counterpart Nawaz Sharif, the military and intelligence establishment of Pakistan appear to have become over-active once again.

    India and Pakistan on Thursday lodged protests against each other after cross-border firing in Jammu and Kashmir left one dead and seven people injured.The rising tensions along the Jammu and Kashmir border -- where civilians have been hit hard on both sides -- follows the July 11 joint statement between India and Pakistan reached at Ufa, Russia, to build peace.

    Are the incidents of Pakistan allegedly shooting down an Indian drone and allegations of cross border firing mere coincidences or a deliberate attempt to derail the peace process?

    Both Narendra Modi and Nawaz Sharif have committed to restart the peace talks. Last Friday, Modi accepted an invitation from Sharif to visit Pakistan next year, raising hopes of an improvement in perennially difficult relations. It will be Modi’s first visit to Pakistan since coming to power. However, according to a report in CNN IBN, some pressure groups and the Pakistan Army, including the external intelligence agency ISI are putting pressure on the Nawaz Sharif government to not go ahead with talks between the National Security Advisor of India Ajit Doval and other establishments. In fact both countries are now back to a blame game over ceasefire violations with both sides lodging protests.

    India lodged protests with Pakistan both in New Delhi and in Islamabad. The Pakistan foreign office, on its part, summoned the Indian high commissioner and criticised India over "air space violation" by an alleged Indian "spy" drone near the line of control.

    However, Pakistan's allegations have been questioned by Indian intelligence agencies as the drone they have described having spotted, are not the kind used by India. Indian officials say the drones are used by Pakistan itself for highway patrolling and the one spotted by the army could be its own country's. They also said that the drone may have belonged to Pakistan's Punjab province.

    As Firstpost has argued earlier, there can be no meaningful dialogue between India and Pakistan unless the two sides agree to set aside their age-old practice of indulging in a blame game and focus on building on possible convergences. But the problem is that while Indian political and defence establishments speak in one voice, the Pakistani military remains the invisible but most potent hand which is not prepared to shed its anti-India mindset.

    Pakistani troops today pounded a number of places along the International Border and Line of Control (LoC) in Jammu region with heavy firing and mortars, leaving four persons injured and triggering fear among the villagers. India lodged a protest with Pakistan while the Indian troops retaliated "effectively" to the cross-border firing. These events unfurled on the eve of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Jammu tomorrow.

    The Indian Army already foiled an infiltration bid along the LoC in Poonch district by a group of militants trying to enter the Indian side today. BSF officials said Pak Rangers have increased the arch of firing and shelling from Kanachak-Akhnoor sector to RS Pura sector now.

    Home Minister Rajnath Singh earlier today called an urgent meeting with External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj and Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar to review the overall situation in the wake of fresh ceasefire violations by Pakistan along the border in Jammu and Kashmir. Meanwhile, Director General of BSF met National Security Advisor Ajit Doval to apprise him of the situation.

    In a press conference, Foreign Secretary S Jaishankar said that India sought an end to the firing and corrective steps on Pakistan's part but the latter did not respond. "We remain committed to peace. But there should be no doubt that unprovoked firing from Pakistan will result in retaliation from India," Jaishankar added.

    Pakistani troops targeted five border outposts (BoPs) and some civilian areas in RS Pura and Tawi forward belts, firing 81 mm mortar shells around 0350 hours.BSF troops guarding the border line retaliated effectively and the firing exchange continued till 0530 hours today. The Pakistan army also violated ceasefire along the Line of Control (LoC) in Poonch sector, firing at various posts of the Indian army.

    Due to firing and shelling, fear has returned to haunt the border residents in Jammu who were hopeful that the recently held talks between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his Pakistan counterpart Nawaz Sharif in Russia would bring peace dividends for them.

    There have been a total of nine ceasefire violations during July. A woman, Poli Devi, was killed and six others, including two BSF jawans, were injured yesterday in firing and mortar shelling in Jammu district by Pakistan Rangers.
     
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  3. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Who in his sane mind can believe that Pakistan wants to have peace talk now or in the future!
     
  4. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    That is right.

    But the problem is all three, the big, bad and ugly doesn't wants to understand it that Pakistan is the biggest problem in this region.
     
  5. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    India should keep playing to the gallery and keep firing its guns before its ammo expires! Pakistan is at best an irritant and would be even more if we grow enough for a decade.
     
  6. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    Whenever something happens, Pakistan will shake their tail in front of at-least one of these big, bad and ugly and manage to cover its a$$.
     
  7. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    So we already reached at a point where full all out war is the only option remain.

    Is that true....?
     
  8. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    What ISI and the Pak Army want is to stop any peace process. They did it in 1998/99. They did it again during PM Manmohan Singh's tenure. Now in 2015 they are doing it again.

    All this humbug of shooting down a drone has the blessings of the Pak Army. The firing on LOC on the day after Nawaz - Modi met in Russia has been engineered by the Pak Army.

    There are only few alternatives left. A major military showdown. The Pak Army wish to show of their new military toys which they have purchased in last 13 years with $27 Billion in U.S. aid since 9/11 under the pretext of fighting the Qaeda and Taliban in US behalf.

    India because of bureaucratic muddle and terribly honest but disfunctional Defence Minister (AK Anthony) has fallen behind. India has purchased and imported $35 billion of military hardware since 9/11 but India faces two threats. In addition to Pakistan, it is China breathing down its neck. Any confrontation with Pakistan becomes in an instant a China - India confrontation. Recent Modi diplomacy is unable to sway the Chinese.

    Hence the only alternative left is to organize as much terrorist activities in Blochinstan and Afghan border as possible. Deny as much as possible, as Pakistan does, Indian involvement in any Pakistani political causes. Invite the Bloach leaders and Pakhtoon leaders who are leading an armed resistance against the Pakistani occupation to Delhi and give them a political and diplomatic platform. They should voice their grievances to the world. That will result in tying down a bulk of Pakistani armed forces in these areas. Pakistan can do the same to the same to Kashmiri leader. But it is no worst than what they doing now.

    With above scenario, China is effectively neuterlized. Pakistani Army is effectively tied down. Situation in Kashmir is unlikely to be worst than what it is today. Effectively Pakistani economy is derailed, Chinese would be unhappy that the much talked about trade corridor thru Pakistan is blocked. To add to that Chinese trade be frozen at about the current state. That will hurt Chinese more. Hence a full circle of you hurt me, I hurt you back is created.

    That will take five to ten years to happen. In the meantime, US will be gone from Afghanistan, hence aid to Pakistan would be curtailed. India would have had LCA fighters join Indian Airforce in large numbers, if all goes well Rafale or its substitute is also in service, new submarines and destroyers are already in Indian Navy service, worst of all 1400 long range artillery guns of various kind are positioned on the border to strike terror in Pakistan. Pakistan's nuclear weapons threat becomes useless as Indian second strike capability would erase Pakistan from the map of the world. Of course, Pakistan in first strike could inflict considerable damage, but sanity will prevail as they do not wish to vanish into the thin air in order to get Kashmir.

    Let Modi run the show. Congress and Manmohan type are unable to run the show forcefully.
     
    anupamsurey and mhk99 like this.
  9. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    Of-course;This is Pakistan's SOP.

    Jihadis are the one who decide what happens at LOC and nearby IB. They have invested so much that they literally have parallel grid to what Rangers and PA has. Look at the sheer number of infiltration bids across whole length of the border, one can see how profound infrastructure they have. Not to mention the kind of support is provided (cover) and the kind of equipment they carry.

    My point is, again the same ol' logistics.

    The logistics are there to do what ? To dictate or support or complement the foreign policy of Pakistan.

    Not necessarily there is disconnect between Military establishment including their Jihadi branch and GOP but a well groomed mechanism where political masks with smiles on their faces look for diplomatic engagements to show the world that they are equal amongst equals and back home the Military establishment irons out/ recover what has been lost under international or diplomatic constrains/pressures, by waging asymmetrical war against India.

    One expert has already indicated that Pakistan was under Chinese pressure to concede to Indian diplomacy at Ufa (for the time being) as India hold Beijing by its balls for supporting Pakistani terrorist. Nawaj Sharif had no choice to save the day for his master and make a diplomatic blunder (as per Pakistan). Back home they got the impunity back, retracted both diplomatically and started doing what they have the logistics in place at LOC/IB for.
     
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  10. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    It's a proven fact that if there is peace between India and Pakistan , paki army shop and reputation among their jahil people will be closed .
     
  11. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    China engages with the Pak army lead prior to engaging with the democratically elected puppet govt leader of Pak in any deals between the two countries..Kinda like China's dictatorship talks to Pak dictatorship.. :D before the democratic puppet of Pak.

    This makes Pak army relevant in the Pak China negotiations...Thus there is peace with China.

    India never acknowledges Pak army lead cuz India engages only in Govt to Govt talks.
    All this flareup in the border is to thwart the talks between GoI and Pak by the Pak army. Pak army showing who is the boss in Pak.

    If India Govt and Pak Govt, talks and make things happen, Pak army will lose its "broker" fees in negotiations.
    Even China will take a note of such progress and make Pak army irrelevant in future negotiations.
     
  12. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    http://defencenews.in/defence-news-internal.aspx?id=1zpEZvOiGXk=

    India will engage in dialogue with Pakistan as WAR is not an option

    Sunday, July 19, 2015
    By : Express News Service

    India will take forward its engagement with Pakistan to resolve all outstanding bilateral issues notwithstanding flare ups in border as “war is not the option”. Making this clear, top government sources said New Delhi believes that dialogue is only option to resolve all pending irritants with Islamabad and Prime Ministers of both the countries have reached an understanding for it at their recent meeting in Ufa (Russia). “Talks are on track. Dialogue is the only way forward as war is not the option,” the sources said.

    oreign Secretary S Jaishankar had said recently that India was committed for dialogue with Pakistan but will give “effective and forceful” response to unprovoked firing and cross-border terrorism. As agreed in Ufa, the three level of talks — between National Security Advisors, Directors General of Military Operations and chiefs of border guards forces — will be held.

    The first meeting between DGs of BSF and Pakistan Rangers will be held on September 9-13. “The three level of talks will go on notwithstanding whatever happens in border,” the sources said. New Delhi understands the internal dynamics of Pakistan and also the facts that there are elements which always try to sabotage the peace process, the sources said.

    Asked what are the plans to bring back underworld don Dawood Ibrahim, they said India has been raising the issue in every meeting with Pakistan and it will continue to do so till the most wanted fugitive was brought to justice.
     
  13. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    The trouble maker is their army.
    If their army is not happy to consider Indian concerns, then war is the last option left.

    What say....?
     
  14. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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  15. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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  16. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Senior Member

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    I had a feeling that IA and BSF were restrained in response this time because of ramzan. I say give them hell :brahmos::india::shoot:.

    Also this time if there is border action, my theory is tested if there will be terrorist attack within pakistan within a week of some action on border or in J&K.
     

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