LOC Border Security Systems

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by arnabmit, Jan 9, 2013.

  1. arnabmit

    arnabmit Homo Communis Indus Senior Member

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    It's high time we start spending our Defense Budget on proper avenues.

    We seem to be fascinated with futuristic programs where as we cant defend ourselves from conventional attacks.

    Please discuss Border Security Systems here.

    [video=youtube_share;Vt51AKdhyQU]http://youtu.be/Vt51AKdhyQU[/video]
     
    sayareakd and W.G.Ewald like this.
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  3. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    you don't have military and political vision that why this will happen.
     
  4. Shirman

    Shirman Regular Member

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    @ arnabmit

    Focusing on Training of BSF, State police bordering Pakistan should also be given importance along side gizmos and equipment......

    The human factor do play well. I guess we need to send special teams to not only Isreal (b cause of its famous counter insurgency tactics), but also Myanmmar, Cambodia, or call team from Columbia, Mexico to handle insurgent based problems......

    Remember Pakis will have a free run in Kashmir just like in 1990s after U.S. withdraws its troops frm Afghanistan in 2014......

    Remember what happened when Soviets retreated from afghan land in 1988

    For that we Indians need to be prepared in advance and should not be caught off guard during 1989-2003 Kashmir insurgency period........
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
  5. arnabmit

    arnabmit Homo Communis Indus Senior Member

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    Imagine a system like this attached to the ELTA system above with a HMG... with man/animal object recognition & friend/foe segregation ability...

    To be used in areas with no civilian population, where terrain & weather puts BSF at a disadvantage...

    [video=youtube_share;nTs7VRFV36c]http://youtu.be/nTs7VRFV36c[/video]
     
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  6. arnabmit

    arnabmit Homo Communis Indus Senior Member

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    I couldn't agree more! These gizmos would be second priority to arming & training our jawans.

    I suggested this as a 1st line COIN... so that our honorable jawans are not slaughtered like yesterday.

     
  7. Shirman

    Shirman Regular Member

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    Also having every isreali modelled systems for our defence can't be possible. They r costly and r designed and modelled as per their own needs and specifications.

    For example this system El/i-6001 which u have posted cannot be used in Jammu-Pak border..... the optics its self r too costly and can be easily targeted /destroyed and r designed for core limilted important n strategic areas.. we need something that covers the entire LOC line and which is affordable.

    Also off topic if we have Light utility helicopter intigreted with man portable UAVs some thing like Elbit Skylark 2 or Bluebird Micro b Uav than chances r we can also see enemy ground movements at macro level.......

    Also Post some pics of IAI made solutions such as :-
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  8. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    we have BEL BFSR.
     
  9. IBRIS

    IBRIS Senior Member Senior Member

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    The system we need is which is linked to a stationary satelite monitoring the movement on LOC on high threat area like locating human heat signature near the fence, distinguishing between friendly from foes location. Radars can easily be detected by low coast gadgets cost less than $100. We should be working on something which can keep a constant eye from the orbit.
     
  10. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    it is not that easy as you say. This area is remote, dont expect any electricity, not even road. Plus extreme temperature and snow. Israeli equipment is useless if you use it whole year. Local companies have to develop our own systems. BFSR is good but it is mountain region.
     
  11. arnabmit

    arnabmit Homo Communis Indus Senior Member

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    Whats the use of having gizmos if they are not used effectively?

    :confused: :noidea: :doh: :hair:
     
  12. arnabmit

    arnabmit Homo Communis Indus Senior Member

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    video was provided as proof of concept, not adoption. we need to develop something like this based on our requirements. :sad:
     
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  13. arnabmit

    arnabmit Homo Communis Indus Senior Member

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    Problem with satellite & uavs are that you need to know first where to look!

    We need solar/battery powered sensor network to tell BSF where to look...
     
  14. arnabmit

    arnabmit Homo Communis Indus Senior Member

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    [video=youtube_share;MlAX_QdyEG8]http://youtu.be/MlAX_QdyEG8[/video]
     
  15. arnabmit

    arnabmit Homo Communis Indus Senior Member

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    This is what I am talking about!

    [video=youtube_share;3ygFeywrvjc]http://youtu.be/3ygFeywrvjc[/video]
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  16. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Lets think of some cheap ideas ourselves rather than looking on youtube. Definitely any cheap ideas from internet can also be produced here.

    What is the cheapest technology to augment the human efforts near the LOC?

    My idea--- Small toy planes with some kind of sensors can be employed in important zones. These can fly 2-3 meters above ground and send real time information to the back office.
     
  17. Anoop Sajwan

    Anoop Sajwan Regular Member

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    little costly but much more effective ideas are-

    1)- Make highway along the border & than unmanned ground vehicle can be utilizes with very low risk & low operational cost.
    2)- Aero-state balloons can be use with in border for any sort of trafficking in border, but in this situation check post should be much closer so that they can respond as soon as possible.
     
  18. DivineHeretic

    DivineHeretic Senior Member Senior Member

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    Actually in normal to lightly adverse conditions the UAV with FLIR is the perfect companion for the units guarding the border (except in thick forests). The uavs can stay safely within the Indian territory while looking at the LOC fence and marking the potential intruders. This is already in use in the upper reaches where human patrol is significantly risky.

    Another instrument the IA/BSF uses is a mesh of motion-sensors,semi automated thermal cameras near the loc in Sopore and other high threat infiltration points. This is the primary reason why despite the lack of HUMANINT in this district, the IA has been able to engage and eliminate intruders without running into ambushes, now compare this to the time in late 90s where the IA had to use BMPs.
    The problem is that the grid is pretty expensive to cover the entire border.
     
  19. IBRIS

    IBRIS Senior Member Senior Member

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    Unattended Ground Sensor Combines Radar & Imaging Camera into Persistent Ground Sensor

    The UGF comprises a miniature tactical radar (Elta Systems EL/M-2112) integrated with the MUGI, enabling persistent, long endurance coverage of gaps in a perimeter or border line covered by other means of surveillance. The radar continuously scans a sector of 90⁰, delivering persistent surveillance, with an automatic detection range of up to 2 km. The MUGI system can be triggered by the radar, or by unattended ground sensors (acoustic, seismic, etc.) The system is controlled remotely via radio link, with multiple systems operated simultaneously by a single observer.

    [​IMG]
    MUGI – man-portable, persistent unattended ground sensor. Photo: Seraphim

    [​IMG]
    Seraphim has integrated the Elta EL/M-2112 radar with its Mini Unattended Ground Imager (MUGI) to deliver what it calls the ‘Ultimate Gap Filler’ (UGF) designed to plug uncovered areas in a highly protected perimeter. Photo: Seraphim


    This can do most of the demands you have asked for in your list
    The MUGI, according the company, is a fully operational system that provides ground forces with real-time, persistent covert surveillance. Specially designed to be camouflaged for quick deployment in special operations, the system gathers information 24/7 from a hidden spot.

    Using its IR Imager or CCD camera, MUGI sends live video streams to the C4I center, significantly enhancing situational awareness.

    The Chameleon 2 is an unattended persistent urban reconnaissance covert surveillance system blending in perfectly in a variety of urban environments. It gathers real-time visual Intelligence by remotely monitoring hostile target movements and supplying early warnings to troops.

    The Chameleon 2 is capable of identifying and responding to human targets at 120m, and sending full motion video for immediate reaction or for future action. As with MUGI, a single observer can simultaneously control multiple systems and integrate it with external sensors, and C4I systems.

    Additionally, the Chameleon 2 can operate automatically – detecting suspicious movements and alerting the user through its internal Video Motion Detection (VMD). Extremely small, lightweight and energy efficient, the system has full communications flexibility, including WiFi, cellular, wired and satellite.
    Open Sharp Eyes Along the Border- An Israeli Integrated Solution - i-HLS
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  20. IBRIS

    IBRIS Senior Member Senior Member

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    New Trends in Force Protection & Border Protection

    Force Protection is another field of activity that is expecting to offer sustainable demand over the upcoming years. Despite the draw down of forces from Afghanistan, it can be assumed that the forces remaining in country, as training, support and special operations elements, will require extensive protection means to maintain low signature and avoid casualties or visible damage. (Rumors say the Pentagon plans to leave at least 10,000 troops there)

    Among the systems shown at AUSA 2012 were various Counter-IED systems, from the new robotic flail to a giant route-clearing monster displayed by Pearson. A range of robotic C-IED systems were displayed here, supporting unmanned mobility, combatting IEDs etc. Another growing category of force protection sensors are the compact tactical surveillance radars, that have evolved from artillery locating or ground surveillance sensors. As integrated, multi-mission threat warning radars, they provide early warning about all types of hostile attacks – from rocket or mortar firing, locating missiles or gunfire. Additionally, they can detect vehicles or personnel movement at distances from several hundreds of meters to 10 or 20 km.

    Medusa – is a 66mm weapon delivery platform firing non-lethal human incapacitation grenades. It is effective at ranges up to 150 meters. Mounted on vehicles or stationary posts, MEDUSA uses an articulated launcher and programmable grenade with thermobaric payload technology that provides non-lethal ocular, audio and concussive incapacitation.

    The system can be mounted on vehicles or checkpoints, it can be used to repel crowd attempting to assault the protected site in situations where firing at the crowd is not likely or not feasible.
     
  21. Shirman

    Shirman Regular Member

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    Sir, what's the status of it.....

    I was thinking that we already have deployed when this un-fortunate incident happened.....

    I had saw the pics of it posted by u during Def 2012 exhibition........is it still in the prototype/ testing stages or ready to be deployed....

    We will need it in huge numbers When Pakis show us their true insurgency avatar Post 2014...........
     

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