Lights out folks

Discussion in 'Economy & Infrastructure' started by Energon, Aug 3, 2012.

  1. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    I've been glancing over the discussions spurred by the recent black out and I feel that something is missing.

    All things considered the primary debate here shouldn't be about the quality Chinese hardware, but rather the utter mismanagement by successive governments in India which is very telling of the trajectory the nation has taken since independence. Normally in a democratic nation one would expect that the most logical response to the "lights out" for hundreds of millions of its citizens would result in a "lights out" for the governmental establishment which has perpetrated a failed model of governance. Yet this is not what happens in India. Oh well.... farewell "shining" India you had a good run, but now it's time to go back to the default setting- darkness.

    Ok well maybe that's a bit too dramatic, but clearly India has been doing something wrong, and unless that is corrected no amount of reactionary superficial changes will change anything (the perennial Indian conundrum). The ability to identify and implement radical change in a failed system is exactly why China will become a global power and India won't. India, as Ramchandra Guha rightly points out will at best muddle along- a fact Indians need to accept unless they implement real change.

    Everyone knows India's infrastructure is pathetic, but what are the causes? Where is the discussion about the actual problem? I see all this uproar about BHEL, why? Even if the Chinese components are as bad as they are made out to be (which they aren't because clearly they are working everywhere else) they are still better than anything BHEL has to offer; you know why?.. because BHEL hasn't offered what's actually needed. And this is also why the answer to the great internet debate is that the JF17 is better than the LCA... because it actually f**k!g flies in service. For all the accolades listed on wikipedia, BHEL hasn't really delivered, much like the LCA and a barrage of other white elephants with imposing Sanskrit names.

    India lacks the manufacturing base to build the necessary hardware even for the woefully inadequate infrastructure it currently has let alone what's actually needed. Years of governmental control over industry stunted it's growth and development (much like that of most Indian children). It was the classic tale of inept governmental behemoths which produce crap but are able to proclaim wiki-accolades like "this is the __th largest company in the world supporting the worlds largest ___". That both the company and its client are utterly inadequate and antiquated is somehow never mentioned on wikipedia. Also the second blank should now say "blackout"

    Ah... but then there's the counter argument about the new "liberalization" of industries and all these new deals with acronyms like PSUs fancy historical references like "navratna" and big name collaborations. Really? The only difference the facade of liberalization has made is conversion of outright government theft to crony capitalism. The list of beneficiaries however still remains small, much like the girth of Indian............um... roads.

    The real change needed has not materialized because the people responsible for it don't want it to happen. If the government does what it's actually supposed to do... which is effective regulation and imposition of the rule of law, then how will the benefactors benefit? How can the government keep a leash on things if the it facilitates access to capital for any tom dick and harry with a great business proposal thereby spurring a litany of small and medium businesses which can collectively crank out various components that makes one big piece of equipment? How will the poor remain poor if they suddenly have access to things like highways, schools, banks and electricity? Such things would *gasp* actually get them out of poverty. Then how will the Indian politicians and bureaucrats feed their kids if not for the scores of government initiated poverty "alleviation" schemes (the worlds largest scam)? How does one exploit the caste system by keeping it alive if the scores of people become economically independent and literate and realize that their so called "culture" is a sack of $h!t?

    The fact of the matter is that the whole system is screwed, centralization (with or without a mask) will never work in India. As the olympic medal count clearly shows, India is not China, and unless Indian citizens don't push for change, they are essentially complicit. The blackout is merely a symptom of what happens when a government does not fulfill its role.

    The problem is not the grid, but rather the institution that runs it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012
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  3. ani82v

    ani82v Senior Member Senior Member

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    Petroleum Mismanagement, No regulation of water resources, Power mismanagement, Coal Mismanagement, Lax judiciary, Financial mismanagement, and the list goes on and on.

    India needs to be very lucky to get her problems solved.

    Unfortunately, anything good that happen to India is mostly by chance. :)
     
  4. sky

    sky Regular Member

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    In India the psu's are government owned or controlled so the management can not apply the real charges needed for them to make a real profit which then in turn can be reinvested into the business. The fact the state or federal government then give free services which have to be payed for. To farmers or the poor citizens's doesn't help either.

    About 20 years ago the british conservative government privatised BT, the reason given was we had no money to invest in the business which at the time was vast . The solution was to privatise the company and then borrow money from the market's,problem solved.

    When the company made a list of all it's assets so a proper price for the share listing could be given ,something weird occurred . Long forgotten or known about assets' were discovered . Once they were sold off money , was suddenly there for the business to make capital investment which was the whole point of privatising off our PSU'S.

    Only when a fair price being charged to consumers can India really rise ,and popular polices don't help them make long term investment's. One only has to look at ONGC to see how the UPA uses it's internal fund's, rather for expansion or investment but for subsidy's .

    India need's a right wing government like never before, the only problem is the poor vote , and it's a tough sell to scrap subsidies . Gujarat seem's to find the right balance and has growth as well so it can be done.
     
  5. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Very well put Energon. Excellent analysis of what is ailing India and its progress at so many levels. I agree with most of your points. Though you have pointed out the issues in the system which responsible for the current decrepit institutes, it would be great to hear your views on what would be the possible solutions given the inertia in the institutions which doesn't want to change and doesn't want any one else to change it.
     
  6. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    That is what the future of India?

    Like.....we will not improve it and there are (our) moles every where in the entire Indian Government Establishment.

    WE won't allow (with the help of our beloved moles) others to improve it.
     
  7. Predator

    Predator Regular Member

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    before blindly ranting about the entire nation go through the progress made by states like gujarat and goa

    congress party is the root cause for the mismanagement in this nation, and only when they are booted out while there be change which is much needed
     
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  8. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Culture cannot be changed. Gujarat is but an aberration. Overall the killer instinct has to come. It requires a sea change from how things are done. Ultimately the babus, government machinery has to change their ways.
     
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  9. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Golden words. Quoted for reference.
     
  10. Predator

    Predator Regular Member

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    this talk of changing culture is done to deflect attention from root causes. its congress which is responsible for deep rooted corruption and mis-governance. they divide the nation among vote banks, throw some 'free gifts' for poor and win elections and keep looting the nation without ensuring development.

    see what has happened in gujarat and goa, its development and promise of development that enabled parties to win elections.
    even catholics, traditional vote bank of congress, voted for bjp in goa.

    ultimately babus are reflection of their political master's work culture. if the politicians are honest and upright, babus will fall in line.
    one example
    Real-life Instance of Delivering Governance | The Rediscovery of India
     
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  11. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    Energon, I agree with most of your points but the fault lines do not lie with BHEL per se. BHEL has been delivering excellent quality equipment and it is with these equipments NTPC plants have one of the best PLFs in their Thermal plants. Their PLFs can be compared to any Thermal plant in say US/Europe.

    The problem is with the system that on one hand forces NTPC and other SEBs to purchase from BHEL and on the other hand they do not give the operational freedom to BHEL to expand and increase their capacities. The result was that BHEL was saddled with orders but no capacity, so the project execution times were getting stretched. To avoid these delays and of course cost, Chinese equipment were bought by the Private sector power plants. But recent events like the one in Yamunanagar have shown, the Chinese equipment broke down within a year and turbine blades had to be sent back to China for repairs. The plant is shut down and from a power surplus state Haryana is now a power deficient state.
     
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  12. Illusive

    Illusive Senior Member Senior Member

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    We have become complacent with all the hype about India becomming an economic powerhouse, this and that............the ministers are filling their pockets like there is no tomorrow and they have been quite successful in that.

    Corruption has now become a normal thing, like if you are not bribing people to get your work done,people will think you are a fool. Actually the bureaucracy is such that you have no choice at all.

    No reforms, we like status quo too much, every project have to run through a green hurdle(eg: the NaviMumbai international airport).

    Our education sucks big time, the recent reforms like the school cannot fail a student upto class eight will have serious consequences in the quality of human resource in future. The kids just dont study upto class eight. The quota system maybe fair deal for some but how can it be fair for the student who got more marks than the dalit student and yet cant get admission.

    We are democracy and we can overthrow this govt. then y aren't we doing it? but then what choices do we have the other parties are equally pathetic, note its not the parties but the people in it that makes it pathetic.

    The chinese people are sacrificing a lot, but their hardwork is paying of thnx to a govt which actually cares for the development of country even if it means giving pretty hard time to its people.

    We are sacrificing too but, the development is minimal, our govt. neither care for its people nor does it care for the development of this country

    We are failing and if we keep up with this we are doomed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2012
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  13. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    I am convinced that the solution to India's problems unlike China's can only come in the form of a social movement and not government initiated reform. India's freedom movement is always considered synonymous with non violence. The non violence aspect is truly commendable but that isn't the defining reason for its success, after all the United States achieved the same result quite violently. What really made the Indian freedom struggle successful was the fact that it was the worlds largest social movement. Mind you this wasn't homogenous. Gandhi, Ambedkar et. al all launched their own massive social movements, the political representation which followed was a reflection of what the society was demanding, not the other way round. What made the social movement critical is that it effectively torpedoed the Raj's fundamental doctrine of divide and rule.

    The post independence governance aspect on the other hand was a cock up because India took over the existing system implemented by the British empire which was inherently extractive. It is both illogical and impossible to expect reform from a system of governance that is designed to oppress people, not represent their interests. India's police force, the institution that ought to be responsible for maintaining law and order and ensuring safety is actually the government's biggest tool to curtail the freedom of the populace. Isn't it weird that the first response to any problem in India isn't addressing the actual threat, but instituting bans and curfews. India's "ban list" is probably as long as its constitution, yet the police are entirely obsessed with the former instead of doing their best to uphold the latter. This inherent failure exists in virtually all institutions under the tutelage of the Indian government. Just look at the dynamic between enlisted men and officers in the Indian military; it is exactly what existed between the brown sepoys and their white officers, there has been no philosophical change whatsoever in the organizational doctrine designed to exploit large scores of Indian soldiers by treating them like an inexhaustible source of cannon fodder.

    Now this is what I mean by social movement:
    India has a set "ruling class" composed almost entirely of feudalistic armed thugs; this ruling class is totally disconnected from the people who keep the country afloat and pay their salaries (by that I mean people whose money they steal)... i.e. the tax payers. India has a seen a surge in the middle class yet this segment of the population has no say in matters of governance. Talk about taxation without representation! So the government extracts money from the middle class while pretending to pander to the impoverished masses who are impressed by a free TV but too clueless to know that they are being exploited as well. Implementing crippling reservation quotas at the expense of academic quality and meritocracy absolves the government of the far, far harder task of educating hundreds of millions of children. Now all of this is very easy for the government to exploit because the social divisions between the upper and lower classes is extremely vast and hostile. This is merely a recasting of the divide and rule policy. Hence technically if the upper classes of the Indian society were to exert a positive influence themselves over the impoverished masses the founding platform of the extractive government would come crashing.

    Unfortunately things went the other way after economic liberalization. The wealth gap increased and the new middle class cocooned themselves into their bubble of wealth. The upper middle class wanted to live a "Western lifestyle" without actually internalizing egalitarian Western concepts, their new reborn "Indian identity" materialized in the form of crass weddings aping those from bollywood movies. And in spite of a greater interaction between the rich and poor the divide worsened. As in the people who used to have one maid now had 4, but treated all of them like $h!t and didn't even bother learning their names.

    The problem with India's nouveau riche is that they are entirely apathetic toward social causes and ignorant of all the problems that beset their society. I probably know more about India's poverty issues than my highly educated relatives who actually reside there. However if India's upper classes are to change their attitude, educate themselves about their surroundings a bit more at least take some interest in the social welfare of their slum dwelling teenage maids and drivers it could set off a positive wave. Eventually the armies of wealthy housewives may come to realize that they can get off their ass and actually do something to make a positive impact upon society instead of just consuming oxygen. Even the smallest shift in the outlook of the upper segment of society can set of a chain reaction. I say the upper segment because historical data shows that when change in a society comes benevolently from top down the result is better than when it comes violently from the bottom up. This is why the anglophone parts of the world have fared better than their francophone counterparts. But most of all what is clear is that when the social outlook doesn't change at all and where the divide and the hostility keeps growing the whole thing goes to $h!t, as evinced by the the legacy of Spanish rule in south America.
     
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  14. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    I knew you would talk about Social movement because I thought of exactly the same because that is what anyone with basic human intelligence would logically think about it as the next step. At present our institutions have become decrepit because of three things - corruption, lack of accountability and lack of transparency. Pretty much all institutions work in a very opaque manner because it allows the players (politicians+babus) to indulge in corruption and lack of accountability allows them to get away with corruption and incompetence. You cannot expect them to be self-changing agents simple because it is not in their interests to change such a system that allows them to do corruption at many levels. Even if they are caught doing corruption, they use investigating agencies , which are totally under their control, to get clean chits and get away with corruption. So, change has to come by the way of pressure from the outside to make these institutions change and make them function in a more transparent and accountable manner. And a social movement is what one would think about.

    But then we have dimwits all over the country be it in media, outside media, on the internet and in the country who argue that a social movement is not necessary to change these institutions because it is illegal and it is against the constitution. They say it has to be through electoral politics and use such words like vox populi and vox dei. I say vox populi and vox my a$$ :D. The current electoral system is so scarred and divided that it will not allow any honest and efficient person to enter the system, even if they enter they are turned into corrupt. Take for example, today an MP seat is won in an election through distribution of money, alcohol, tvs, cycles etc. And it is estimated that on an average a total of 10 to 15 crore rupees are spent on each MP constituency to win an election. How, given these expenses, one can expect an honest tac paying citizen compete against this money splurging and vote buying politicians who are well entrenched in the system. But then dimwits strike again. They argue that it is because electorate itself is corrupt, they accept the money and alcohol and vote the corrupt politicians and so we deserve these politicians and therefore we are screwed in perpetuity. These dimwits don't understand that the electorate is not mature or even if mature there is no 'viable' alternative which is free of corruption. So, the electorate keep electing same corrupt candidates but from different parties.

    The dimwits also don't understand how the electorate is being taken for a ride by showing some short-term benefits by the elected parties. Take for example, how UPA I govt. which has no achievements to right about (may be except nuclear deal) manipulated the electorate to come back to the power while it was parallely indulging in corruption and massive scams in the form of 2G, Deva-Antrix deal, MNREGA, Common Wealth Games scam, Adarsh Scam and more. The UPA-I government indulged in vote-bank politics to come back to power by giving reservation to OBCs, free money to lazy labourers through MNREGA and by waiving off loans of the farmers. Given such worst politics played by these players, one cannot expect them to self-change agents. So how can one expect them to change?.

    It has to come through social revolution of the people. You might already know that there was an anti-corruption social movement in the form India Against corruption (IAC) movement (Team Anna movement) led by Anna Hazare. There was overwhelming support for them from the people to support the institution of a Lokpal which can make these players (politicians and babus) accountable. Instead of lauding such an effort that could bring some change in our institutions there are dimwits who question the people behind the movement, bring in their personal biases against these people and question the legitimacy of the movement. The government which promised to bring a strong lokpal due to pressure from the IAC movement with inclusion of three important aspects - that of inclusion of most of the central govt. bureaucracy, politicians and a whistle-blowers protection. To everyone's surprise, the govt. along with other political parties have worked for a common cause first time above the politics brought a joke of a Lokpal because certainly a strong lokpal is not in their interests. Its like asking a thief to lock himself up - not gonna happen. Take for example, to show how lopsided they made this lokpal, if a person complains against a bureaucrat of corruption, the person has to come up with proof otherwise he can be locked up in prison for 2 years for bringing frivolous charges. If the person has the proof against the bureaucrat, then government will provide the bureaucrat with a lawyer (from taxpayer's money) and if found guilty, the maximum punishment is 6 months. That much how a joke this lokpal is.

    Also one has to look how the government has been successful in muzzling the movement (obviously with the help of dimwits in this country). It started a dirty tricks department investigation on all members behind the movement to discredit the movement. They used all the resources available to them in the government machinery but they couldn't bring one charge against them but through the paid media it has planted doubts in the minds of the people of credibility of these people. Then they made it a civil society vs parliament debate and taking the upper hand by saying that parliament is supreme in this country and all the corrupt politicians became united against this movement and through its paid media showed to the people that parliament is supreme and the movement has no legitimacy because they are not elected.

    In the end, the government and the players were successful in oppressing the movement and the dimwits are celebrating because they have status quo.
     
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  15. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    My posts aren't meant to be a "rant", they are I would say at least partially informed opinions. However even if they weren't, if a black out of this magnitude affecting over half a billion people doesn't deserve a rant, I don't what does.

    Yes, I have looked into the steep progress made by Gujarat and the results are actually mixed. Gujarat has replicated the China model very well wherein the government implements radical change to attract investment into large projects. Given the frustration of the Indian people due to inaction, incompetence and chaos and an admiration for China's success this sort of a strong handed autocratic approach has a lot of support. But herein lies the problem, this is not an inclusive model, it is not a political system that includes the people; this is a system based around a cult figure that currently happens to be business friendly. However the business friendly model isn't driven by market forces but rather by selective concessions made to certain kinds of businesses which in turn benefits only a select group of people. In spite of so much overt progress, the overall human development in Gujarat has actually regressed. If you look at the human development indicators Gujarat has actually been dropping (refer to the last portion of the article). This also explains why financial growth hasn't made a positive impact upon the society at large. Not only has the wealth gap widened, but increased income has actually brought about troubling trends like increased level of chauvinism and female infanticide (Edward Luce "In spite of the Gods").

    There have been numerous examples of radical change implemented through autocratic means to elicit rapid progress (albeit China's scale has been unparalleled). However Acemoglu and Robinson have shown that such models haven't been as sustainable and healthy as the truly inclusive ones because inherently they are still extractive .

    India's problems in governance aren't linked to party politics but rather intrinsic structural deficits. No matter which political party comes into power they always end up abusing the same mechanisms. This is why all governments start with a bang and end in a whimper, much like India's pace bowlers.

    There's enough evidence in democratic societies showing that neither uber left wing or right wing governments are good for the long term outlook of the nation.

    However if you mean conservative politics the theory only holds true based on what those conservative political principles stand for. If conservative politics refers to fiscal responsibility, policy changes to minimize the role of government and allowing market forces to take over and instituting labor reform to balance the relationship between unions and management then yes, it will work. However if conservatism stands for obsession with pointless religious conflicts and a propensity for chauvinism the no, conservatives won't achieve anything meaningful. This is exactly why the United States is on a decline. Conservatism and liberalism for us no longer stands for relevant social and political principles, but rather fixation on abortion, stem cell research and homosexuals. The medium of the discourse is no longer intelligent public debate but rather asinine scare tactics broadcasted over fox news by a bunch of clowns.
     
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  16. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    The lack of opacity and institutionalized corruption was actually solidified under Indira Gandhi's establishment in the late 70s which is also when she effectively terminated all societal power thereby bringing an end to the concept of social movements. This is why there's such a disparity between the generation of my grand parents, who were alive during the freedom struggle and were highly attuned to social causes as opposed to my parents' generation who are entirely apathetic toward social issues and only look to care for their own.

    However you have hit the nail on the head. The problem in India's system of governance isn't political, but structural. Lack of accountability and opacity combined with an inordinate level of power enables those in government to do whatever they want at the expense of the entire populace regardless of what political party they represent.


    Right now what you see is the political class going into the largest segment of society, the impoverished rural population and fabricating social movements. If Rahul Gandhi and his cronies or LK Advani and his acolytes start riling up people to their cause it is not a social movement, it is political manipulation, this is what the Indian public needs to understand.

    What would really make a difference is if not just Anna Hazare but a whole bunch of people with varying interests rose up in a social movement. The concerns of the urbanized young are different than the retirees. People pursuing entrepreneurship need their own movement as do the people who subsist on farming and let's not forget women. I would love to see people taping overt acts of day to day corruption such as those with traffic cops and loading them on youtube. It would be wonderful to have a website on the internet dedicated to videos of corrupt government employees which can go viral all over the world.
     
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  17. ant80

    ant80 Regular Member

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    Excellent analysis, Energon.
     
  18. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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  19. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    Corruption has been an institutionalized requirement in the Indian government for nearly 4 decades now, there's nothing new about it. It's just that everyone hears more about it now due to the advances in media technology and access to it.

    Also does everyone really love the status quo? I have as yet to come across an Indian who is happy with its state of affairs . The only beneficiaries of the current system are the ruling class, i.e. robber baron politicians, their army of corrupt bureaucrats and the new merry band of crony capitalists. Even if this number runs into the million, the number of unhappy people clearly getting screwed is over a billion.

    I highly doubt people love the status quo, if anything I'd wager that most people hate it. However most of those people are convinced that nothing can be done about it because they have been manipulated into so by a handful of people. The problem is that even though there are a billion people who want change they are all divided and hence utterly disorganized whereas the few people who profit from the status quo even though grouped along party lines (at least on paper) are heavily organized. The divide is along the lines of socioeconomic barriers such as income gap, urban/rural, religion, social class and caste. The second divide is along knowledge level, as in only very few who have the level of education and understanding to know what actually needs to be done while the rest are clueless. These divisions are also heavily laced with ignorance and hatred, some of it is cultural but a lot of it is engineered. The urban rich have absolutely no clue and are totally apathetic about what goes on in the rural hinterlands, while the poor who are cut off from all economic activity have a lot of animosity toward the rich. The only people who know how to interact and slip in and out between the divided groups are the political class. This is why they are so good at pitting one group against the other to bring about a paralysis.

    The disorganization manifests in disjointed action and/or inaction; the middle class are frustrated into submission and so they just create a little bubble around themselves filled with a few modern luxuries, many of the poor are consumed by their fight to survive from hour to hour and an increasing number of poor have taken up arms and are on a misguided destructive path.

    Theoretically, if the divide was mitigated and the people with knowledge were put in touch with those without it then the political class who currently holds all the power would automatically lose it. Mind you there wouldn't be just one large mass who agrees upon everything. There would be differing groups with differing ideas, but at least the debate would be between masses of people as opposed to a tiny class of politicians with different party names and insignias.
     
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  20. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    The reason all options suck is because the entire political class regardless of their party affiliation aren't really there to serve you. However that is because the institution they seek to control, ie the government of India which was created by the British is designed to suppress the people and extract their wealth, not serve their interests as such. It's just that now political parties (unlike their British predecessors) need your votes to take over that institution and reap the benefits.

    The reason there's hardly any development in spite of your sacrifices is because 1) the 'work : benefit' ratio is poor due to structural inefficiency and 2) the government in charge of manipulating that ratio has no motivation whatsoever to balance it in your favor.

    The root of the problem here is that the Indian people do not know what their government is supposed to do for them and what they are expected to do in return. Unlike what most Indians believe, a democratic government's primary role isn't to make intelligent policy, keep a strong military, clean the streets, build roads, make just laws and then enforce them with an iron fist to eradicate chaos and institute order,etc. All governments are entrusted to do this, and it's the autocratic ones that are able to do it best. Like the Chinese for instance who are admired by many Indians wishing they too had an ironfisted government to "keep everyone in line". Perhaps this is also why many Indians have a misguided fascination with Hitler and idolize cult figures like Modi. Some oil rich Arab monarchs have also done this very well and seen their countries become wealthy, modern and successful. But as you can see this has nothing to do with democracy.

    The primary goal of a democratic government is to ensure that favorable conditions exist in order for you to thrive. Scripting intelligent policy, maintaining law and order effectively, managing traffic by building well designed roads and keeping streets clean etc. is secondary to achieving the primary objective. The difference here is that the basic ideas of what suits you best has to come from you, the government's job is to use its expertise to make sure that most of it happens. Hence whoever is able to make more of your ideas materialize thereby balancing the work : benefit ratio in your favor deserves your vote.

    The decision to liberalize India's economy wasn't that of the people (who were getting screwed due to the closed centralized economy), nor was it intentional. It happened because the government at the time had no other option, it just so happened that it ended up benefiting some people. There's a lot of national pride about India coming on to the global spectrum and attracting foreign investment from big names. But that hasn't really extended the benefit for everyone. Only the political class and the crony capitalists have benefited tremendously in both fame and fortune from attracting certain kinds of big business. The biggest folly is that the government has no interest in creating the conditions necessary for its people to succeed. India does not have liberty with labor unlike China to create an export based super economy. It does however have a healthy entrepreneurial spirit, if the main intention were creating the conditions to benefit the people best then it should have worked on promoting entrepreneurship to compete at the global level, yet it has done the exact opposite, it has essentially squandered the country's best asset, the creativity of it's people. This is because the government has no interest in creating conditions to suit you, it only cares about itself.

    The West on the other hand took the route to create favorable conditions to benefit its people and did so by building the right institutions needed to attain this objective. This is exactly why they have seen comprehensive growth and overall increase in standard of living. Ironically it is the deviation from this principle that is currently leading toward its downfall. The Chinese on the other hand have a highly competent authoritarian government which has brought about an economic windfall, but at the end of the day it is still extractive which is why China will never become like the developed West in it's current condition.

    India however is puttering around because it has adopted a democratic system of governance but is hoping to operate it like a "mai baap" government. Clearly the result has been disastrous. Not only is the economy not doing as well as it should but there's also an increasingly growing dangerous uprise among the most disenfranchised. If this issue isn't handled soon the results will be calamitous. India will never succeed as some of its people think it will unless the system of governance is fixed whereby the current extractive political class is relieved of its absolute power by an involved and informed population. Obviously for the best results it needs to be done soon and peacefully lest it end up in disaster. As "V" aptly put it "people should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people"
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012
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  21. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    Found this blog entry by Clive Crook on the Atlantic very interesting...

    By Clive Crook


    Aug 8 2012, 7:00 PM ET 3

    If getting good people in the right jobs counts for something, the outlook for India has improved in the past several days. It certainly needs to. The new finance minister, Palaniappan Chidambaram, is a forceful economic liberalizer of long standing. And the prime minister's new adviser, Raghuram Rajan--formerly a chief economist at the IMF, well known in America thanks to a couple of outstanding books--is one of the most insightful economic-policy scholars I can think of. Chidambaram's first statement after being reinstalled in the finance job was well received by investors and business leaders. They've been getting very gloomy about India's prospects--a mood that the recent blackouts (which left 650m people without power) seemed to justify, and then some.

    Prime minister Manmohan Singh is a celebrated economic reformer in his own right, of course: a main designer of the reforms of the early 1990s which first put India on the convergence track. He's been struggling lately and people have been saying he's past it, but the problem wasn't lack of drive, still less lack of economics expertise. It was politics--and the new appointments don't make that go away.

    The parallel may seem outlandish but these days watching Delhi reminds me of Washington. A political class devoted not to results but to grubbing for money and quarreling for its own sake. A system run through with corruption, especially of the intellectual kind. An endless self-indulgent cacophony of dispute, signifying nothing and yielding nothing. It's a certain kind of politics, taken to its logical conclusion. I don't know if Singh, Chidambaram and Rajan really belong in the thick of all that, but for India's sake I wish them well.
     

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