Life in Pakistan.

[Vinod2070]

Most of the money lenders pre partition in Pakistan were either Hindus or Sikhs.
The money lending market in Kabul was and I think still is dominated by Hindus and Sikhs.



I was reading Jawad Naqvi's articles, and I chanced upon these two "gems".

1.


2.


And hence my question.

The fact is that many Pakistanis have several myths about their country, history, Bin Qasim, Muslim league etc. Myths that can be easily disproved by the simple knowledge of historical facts.

I shared a Pakistani writer's views on this earlier.

http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/in...iscussion-pakistani-ideology-3.html#post13858

The myth of history -DAWN Magazine; March 27, 2005

This Jawed Naqwi has outdone himself here. I know that he works for a Pakistani paper in India. Is he a Pakistani or an Indian?

 

[Singh]

LOL not joking we love them and blame everything on brahmin

Canadian Khalistanis and Pakistanis share similar viewpoints :blum3:

 

[musalman]

The fact is that many Pakistanis have several myths about their country, history, Bin Qasim, Muslim league etc. Myths that can be easily disproved by the simple knowledge of historical facts.

I shared a Pakistani writer's views on this earlier.

http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/in...iscussion-pakistani-ideology-3.html#post13858

The myth of history -DAWN Magazine; March 27, 2005

This Jawed Naqwi has outdone himself here. I know that he works for a Pakistani paper in India. Is he a Pakistani or an Indian?

Wrong !!!
Muhammad Bin Qasim is revered in Pakistan for reason most obvious. Regarding Muslim League no we all know Mulana AbulKalam was in congress, he is considered as the number 1 scholar of Salafis in Pakistan (Salafis = Wahabis) We all know that Jamiat ulema hind was against Pakistan.

Fact is that its a myth in India that we are ignorant but the fact is otherwise. In fact when we see Indian movies it seems that Indians r more ignorant about Pakistan. Its quite funny to see Pakistani portrayed as a person speaking flawless urdu in Lahore and educated pakistani going to dargha at his or her engagement (Veer Zahra)

 

[musalman]

Canadian Khalistanis and Pakistanis share similar viewpoints :blum3:

Not just the Khalistanis but the local sikhs too. I think u remember that news item about a Sikh traffic warden in Lahore. People flock to that chowk just to say "sat sri akal" to him

 

[Singh]

The fact is that many Pakistanis have several myths about their country, history, Bin Qasim, Muslim league etc. Myths that can be easily disproved by the simple knowledge of historical facts.

I shared a Pakistani writer's views on this earlier.

http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/in...iscussion-pakistani-ideology-3.html#post13858

The myth of history -DAWN Magazine; March 27, 2005

This Jawed Naqwi has outdone himself here. I know that he works for a Pakistani paper in India. Is he a Pakistani or an Indian?

Jawad Naqvi is the worst choice possible, he is terribly biased and on top of that he tries to insinuate rather than report facts, and fails miserably.

Read this article DAWN.COM | Columnists | Get the homing pigeons back to appreciate his god given gift of idiocy

 

[musalman]

Who is that Naqvi guy yaar, never heard of him

 

[Singh]

Not just the Khalistanis but the local sikhs too. I think u remember that news item about a Sikh traffic warden in Lahore. People flock to that chowk just to say "sat sri akal" to him

He resigned soon after because he was ill-treated
Pakistan's lone Sikh traffic warden quits | SikhNet

 

[musalman]

He resigned soon after because he was ill-treated
Pakistan's lone Sikh traffic warden quits | SikhNet

No sir he is still there. This incident happened but the this guy prevailed

 

[Singh]

Who is that Naqvi guy yaar, never heard of him

Jawed Naqvi is one of the two Pakistani journalists in India, he is a correspondent for Dawn.

Fact is that its a myth in India that we are ignorant but the fact is otherwise. In fact when we see Indian movies it seems that Indians r more ignorant about Pakistan. Its quite funny to see Pakistani portrayed as a person speaking flawless urdu in Lahore and educated pakistani going to dargha at his or her engagement (Veer Zahra)

Bollywood is divorced from ground realities, you ought to know this by now

 

[Singh]

No sir he is still there.

Yes, he resigned, was reinstated and then again filed complaints

Humiliated Sikh traffic warden files another complaint against colleagues in Pak

If this was India by now there would've been protests on the streets and media would be on overdrive :sigh:

 

[musalman]

oh bhai maan lo he is still in the force

 

[Antimony]

Private money lending is unlawful in Pakistan. Nevertheless, yes we have some individual especially Pathans who used to lend money on interest. If you ask your elders in India they were also pretty much despised in India.

Bank yes but banks in Pakistan works on Profit and Loss sharing basis rather than interest based. E.g. house loan: In house loan the bank first access ratio of debt equity ratio. lets say 60 percent loan and 40% equity. Prevailing rent in that area is lets say 10,000 per month so the person taking loan will pay 6000 as rent to the bank.
This is what I know dude

Hi Musalman,

Thanks for answering our questions from a Pakistani POV.

Looks like you guys have got Sharia compliant bnaking implemented in Pakistan. Wanted to know more abotu this (can research on wiki but a personal experience is often more helpful).

So you guys have banking laws that discourage usury (interest). what happens when you keep a deposit in a bank? Are you expected not to earn any interest from that?

Loans
How are unsecured loans handled? They would not have any collateral which may be used to create a Hire-purchase transaction.

Deposits and other liability products
As far as I have seen on websites of Pakistani banks that there is a concept of profit sharing on deposits. Can you elaborate on this topic, as I do not see a lot of difference from an interest bearing deposit account

Bond Market
As of 2005 Pakistan had a bond market of about $6.5B. How does a flourishing and growing debt market conform with Sharia principles

 

[Vinod2070]

Wrong !!!
Muhammad Bin Qasim is revered in Pakistan for reason most obvious. Regarding Muslim League no we all know Mulana AbulKalam was in congress, he is considered as the number 1 scholar of Salafis in Pakistan (Salafis = Wahabis) We all know that Jamiat ulema hind was against Pakistan.

Fact is that its a myth in India that we are ignorant but the fact is otherwise. In fact when we see Indian movies it seems that Indians r more ignorant about Pakistan. Its quite funny to see Pakistani portrayed as a person speaking flawless urdu in Lahore and educated pakistani going to dargha at his or her engagement (Veer Zahra)

It is obvious. But do you know how and why he died?

Do you know how many Sindhi girls he sent back home in Harams? How many massacres he committed in Sindh? That all is glossed over in Pakistan as also the real reason for him attacking your country.

Just click on that link and tell me if those myths are not real. Not for you individually but for a large number of Pakistanis. I have interacted with many now and I know for a fact that all of them are true.

 

[musalman]

It is obvious. But do you know how and why he died?

Yes I know

Do you know how many Sindhi girls he sent back home in Harams? How many massacres he committed in Sindh? That all is glossed over in Pakistan as also the real reason for him attacking your country.

Must be many, it must be taught to u not us We are only concerned with the good part. Do u think Brits tell their kid about the Jalianwala Bagh massacre!!! Are you concerned with the good thing about Muhammad Bin Qasim????

Just click on that link and tell me if those myths are not real. Not for you individually but for a large number of Pakistanis. I have interacted with many now and I know for a fact that all of them are true.

Point is its history, you have your view point we have ours, after 1200 years i can not prove it to you he was a good man and you can not prove it to me so many girls were sent to haram. point is he introduced Islam to that area which in my view is far better than hindism which says there are four classes of people, lowest caste not allowed to touch the highest. In Islam every muslim is equal.

 

[Singh]

Vinod,

I am giving 2 examples

1. Aurangzeb is perhaps the most hated person in history for the Sikhs, yet in a letter to Aurangzeb, Guru Gobind Singh acknowledges and praises some of his good qualities (and criticizes his bad qualities).

2. Buddha left his wife and kids, almost destroyed Hinduism, and rejected Vedas. Yet is revered as an Avatar.

Even the most vile person has good qualities, and beliefs transcend facts and realities.

 

[musalman]

Hi Musalman,

Thanks for answering our questions from a Pakistani POV.

Looks like you guys have got Sharia compliant bnaking implemented in Pakistan. Wanted to know more abotu this (can research on wiki but a personal experience is often more helpful).

So you guys have banking laws that discourage usury (interest). what happens when you keep a deposit in a bank? Are you expected not to earn any interest from that?

Loans
How are unsecured loans handled? They would not have any collateral which may be used to create a Hire-purchase transaction.

Deposits and other liability products
As far as I have seen on websites of Pakistani banks that there is a concept of profit sharing on deposits. Can you elaborate on this topic, as I do not see a lot of difference from an interest bearing deposit account

Bond Market
As of 2005 Pakistan had a bond market of about $6.5B. How does a flourishing and growing debt market conform with Sharia principles

Very valid observation. I have to ask my friend who is incharge operation of bank to answer these. Please give me some time.

 

[Vinod2070]

Yes I know

Must be many, it must be taught to u not us We are only concerned with the good part. Do u think Brits tell their kid about the Jalianwala Bagh massacre!!! Are you concerned with the good thing about Muhammad Bin Qasim????

I am sure Brits don't hide it or say it is a lie.

About the good things, I won't contest any facts.

it must be taught to u not us

He attacked Sindh I guess! Are they not in Pakistan now?

Point is its history, you have your view point we have ours, after 1200 years i can not prove it to you he was a good man and you can not prove it to me so many girls were sent to haram.

This is well documented even by Muslim writers. I can get those links but you can as well search them. Point is that the basis of any belief should be factual. Here is a link to an article posted earlier:

http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/in...-impact-pakistans-world-view-2.html#post13877

I am reposting a relevant part for you. This is by a Western writer.

For the first time the people of Sindh were introduced to Islam, itspolitical system and way of the government. The people here had seenonly the atrocities of the Hindus. . . . The people of Sindh were so much impressed by the benevolence of Muslims that they regarded Muhammad-bin-Qasim as their savior. . . . Muhammad-bin-Qasim stayed inSindh for over three years. On his departure from Sindh, the localpeople were overwhelmed with grief." When I visited Hyderabad, Sindh in 1997, I discussed the contents of this textbook with local Sindhis, who assured me that they told their children an alternative version of this story. They informed me that any good Sindhi knows that "in several cities in ancient Sindh, Muhammad-bin-Qasim beheaded every male over the age of eighteen and that he sent tens of thousands of Sindhi women to the harems of the Abbassid Dynasty." They also explained that impact of these textbooks was minimal because, though the back of the book indicated that 20,000 copies were supposedly printed annually, that, because of corruption, "fewer than 10,000 were ever printed and distributed."

Now I see your point that you want to focus on his good qualities. I would like to know what are the "good qualities" in a person that invades a land, murders thousands and thousands of people just because they followed a different religion, sends thousands of girls to be raped, was himself sentenced to death by being wrapped in a skin(???) by his own king due to charges of rape (???) for this crime?

point is he introduced Islam to that area which in my view is far better than hindism which says there are four classes of people, lowest caste not allowed to touch the highest.

Well, this is a topic best avoided at this point. It has the potential to derail the thread and atmosphere here. Needless to say, I disagree. May be we can have a discussion on this later. At present, we avoid getting into religious debates as a forum policy.

In Islam every muslim is equal.

Ever been to Arabia?

 

[Vinod2070]

Vinod,

I am giving 2 examples

1. Aurangzeb is perhaps the most hated person in history for the Sikhs, yet in a letter to Aurangzeb, Guru Gobind Singh acknowledges and praises some of his good qualities (and criticizes his bad qualities).

Good to know that. I had never read about it.

2. Buddha left his wife and kids, almost destroyed Hinduism, and rejected Vedas. Yet is revered as an Avatar.

Even the most vile person has good qualities, and beliefs transcend facts and realities.

Now, Buddha came up with an alternate version of Dharma. He wanted to move away from the Karmkandas that the Sanatan Dharma had been reduced to after thousands of years. The point is people joined him willingly because of his views, he did not come to spread his views at the head of a foreign army.

I won't say that he destroyed Hinduism. We tend to see Buddhism as a sister religion. Part of the Dharmic family of religions that came out of this punya bhumi and that were never spread as a political ideology or by force.

 

[musalman]

I am sure Brits don't hide it or say it is a lie.

About the good things, I won't contest any facts.



He attacked Sindh I guess! Are they not in Pakistan now?
This is well documented even by Muslim writers. I can get those links but you can as well search them. Point is that the basis of any belief should be factual. Here is a link to an article posted earlier:

http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/in...-impact-pakistans-world-view-2.html#post13877

I am reposting a relevant part for you. This is by a Western writer.
Now I see your point that you want to focus on his good qualities. I would like to know what are the "good qualities" in a person that invades a land, murders thousands and thousands of people just because they followed a different religion, sends thousands of girls to be raped, was himself sentenced to death by being wrapped in a skin(???) by his own king due to charges of rape (???) for this crime?

Well, this is a topic best avoided at this point. It has the potential to derail the thread and atmosphere here. Needless to say, I disagree. May be we can have a discussion on this later. At present, we avoid getting into religious debates as a forum policy.

Ever been to Arabia?

Yes been to Arabia, i said Islam says every one is equal. Muslims can be good or bad.
I know how he was killed. I know the charges, I will still say he brought Islam to this part of the world. He was not perfect, he was punished for being a rapist, which I still think is untrue, coz he was killed by wrapped in a skin while had he been a rapist as per Islamic laws (which were fully enforced at that time) would have been stoned to death.
Yes I agree with u lets not discuss religion. But I do not understand what point u r trying to make. You want me to think of him as a bad person??? Which I really do not care coz for me the important thing is that he brought Islam to this region !!

 

[musalman]

Good to know that. I had never read about it.


Now, Buddha came up with an alternate version of Dharma. He wanted to move away from the Karmkandas that the Sanatan Dharma had been reduced to after thousands of years. The point is people joined him willingly because of his views, he did not come to spread his views at the head of a foreign army.

I won't say that he destroyed Hinduism. We tend to see Buddhism as a sister religion. Part of the Dharmic family of religions that came out of this punya bhumi and that were never spread as a political ideology or by force.

LOL at one side you Indian says that Islam was spread by sword and on the other hand you guys flock to dargas of Islamic saint and Hindus are still in majority in India, while Hindusim nearly cease to exist in Indonesia where there was no Islamic invasion