Lie that English education to open world wide opportunity for Indians

Discussion in 'Members Corner' started by ITBP, Jul 8, 2014.

  1. ITBP

    ITBP Regular Member

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    It is complete lie. many people I see say english is now world's Lingua franca so English medium education in India will open world wide opportunities for Indians, as it will make Indian students more fluent in English, IMO it is biggest BS.

    1) Medium of education in Zimbabwe is English, so if supporters of EMS's logic was true then Zimbabweans would have gained upper hand in grabbing jobs, but what we see? Zimbabwe is very poor country, knowing better English did not help them, mean while in Vietnam where MOI is Vietnamese they are in better position than Zimbabwe, so it finally stands? English medium education did not help Zimbabwe.

    2) If knowing English gave people upper hand so much as EMS supporters claim, why are there so unemployment problem in English speaking countries? In US, Canada or NZ? Is not american's mother tongue English? So naturally as per EMS supporter's logic(knowing English gives upper hand in having job) there would be no unemployment problem in US, but reality is very different. What will they say on this?

    After all Americans are more fluent in English as it is their mother tongue. Is not it? :rolleyes: Still so much unemployed. :truestory:

    3) More ever if any Indian wants to have job in in Brazil, then hence Brazil's language is Portuguese so knowing English will not work here much. So knowing English will give job every where is proved false again.

    4) Average Indian does not need to know good english(not all are going to work in iT center, are they?), all they need to have is basic sense in English.

    So when these are facts then why are Indians emphasizing too much on english medium when it's over all importance is highly exaggerated?

    Some Indians are really so much English ass licking that they are incapable to use their brain. :tsk::tsk:
     
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  3. jackprince

    jackprince Turning into a frog Senior Member

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    Re: Lie that English education to open world wide opportunity for Indi

    Just because I suddenly find sitting idle and nothing to do till the quitting time, let's indulge you -

    Oh, my cousin studied in so called English Medium school and cannot still carry on a conversation well enough in English. Even worse off than I and I studied in Bengali medium till 10+2.

    The logic of the above argument boggles my mind!:confused: The English language helps one to get jobs in industries, but it is never the sole requirement or qualification for jobs. First off, you need have industries and substantial presence of MNCs in one's country to let English be helpful for getting jobs - which India has but Zimbabwe doesn't.

    How much presence MNCs have in Vietnam. More important how many languages Vietnam has? The single language of Vietnam makes it more easy for it to get prevalent in domestic industries and making learning English less relevant. Now, if an Indian co. goes to open a firm in Vietnam which of the people will get the cushy jobs in that Vietnam branch - isn't that people who are well versed in English? Even in India, the medium being English in India, it helps the lads from South or North-East get jobs in Mumbai or in Delhi, as well lads from North to get job in Bangalore or Chennai.

    That is one of the most BS argument I have ever read against EMS. Use your brain sometimes, will you? You arguments reminds me of Santa, where he says how smart those Londoners are as even their kids speak English!

    In India knowledge of English is required for a good job, because it is the sole language that binds the corporate India and even the Govt. of India. Frankly, if all the Govt. codes and rules are being started to be written in Hindi, it would be simply illegible by anybody but a Pundit, if not impossible. The language being harder to learn being of foreign roots, but essential for business, becomes a qualification in India automatically. Whereas in America, Canada or Australia - it is their mother tongue. It is Not a qualification, but not knowing that would disqualify you automatically from most of the jobs, except the lowest of menial jobs.


    No, knowing solely English will not work in Brazil unless one is at a relatively higher post. But, you being an Indian will not survive at all if you neither knew English nor Portuguese. With English you would at least be able to find a little help, as every nation that has a decent tourism Industry has a pool of workforce with English knowledge. Same with any other country. You cannot survive with knowledge of Hindi or any other vernacular language of India in most of the countries, where as you would certainly survive for a while with English unless you want to go deep interior of the country.


    The problem is the word 'Average Indian'. Do you think, if a parent can afford, he/she would not send his/her kid(s) to EMS to be a better than an average Indian? More familiarity with a language automatically makes a person more at ease with the language and it is imperative that a person know good English to be able to interact in their workplaces, which includes people from all strata and sphere and parts of India.

    Further, English Medium schooling is not a panacea to ignorance or poor teachers. It is the curricula and the teachers which are the most important factors in a proper education, much more than the medium. However, the medium being English automatically helps a student to reach a few notches up than his/her competition of future workplace. Also, the availability of study material in English is simply vast which not a single other language can compete with either quantitatively or qualitatively. And the addition of Internet has simply made that reach further.

    The joke is on you, as no longer most of the educated Indians who are good in English also, holds any hang-up of Britishers or English people. Indians have successfully Indianised English, with a different accent and a hefty splattering of native words. Only, people with inferiority complex harps on 'English ass licking'!

    To conclude, if your above post were not for trolling, but a serious one - I would have to urge you to learn to use YOUR brain.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2014
  4. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    Re: Lie that English education to open world wide opportunity for Indi

    It was the consequence of brainwashing Indians for 200 years. While we ourselves were not a part of the occupation directly (read our history), when I read about our country's colonization at the hands of British I was shocked. I was shocked that how a bunch of rag-tag pirates who barely had food to eat back home in their cold rocky tiny island in north Europe could come and shake the foundations of Indians, Hindus specifically, who were a global superpower in every sense for thousands of years. The same India that taught civilization and decency to entire East Asia, ruled and dominated entire Southeast Asia, fought off barbaric desert-loving invaders from Central Asia and gave the world so many gifts of knowledge and awareness.

    In fact, learning English will not give you any advantage if you are a part of manufacturing industry. Maybe service industry yes. But Indians over hte years have become so uptight about English taht they compel other Europeans or non-English folk to speak in English themselves!!

    That is shocking.

    For example, when I was in Netherlands, I spoke to the hotel and site personnel in English (them being our hosts and knowing the language), but I had to virtually use sign language to communicate with certain shop vendors who didn't know the language. During the course, I habitually used a mix of English and Hindi words (just out of pure habit).

    Similarly, if non-english speaking Europeans come to India and ask me direction (if they don't know English and ask me in their language), I tell show them a map, show them the name of the place and spell it out, all talking in Hindi. Getting the names right would actually help them while sign language actually gives them the idea.

    A Russian or a Japanese coming to India as a tourist would prefer to learn Hindi to communicate than accept the English superiority over his or her own language as an international medium.

    This is one reason why I liked our PM's decision to stick to Hindi, though his mother tongue is Gujarati. He is secure that no one is invading his language's space and promotes further unity by promoting an official working language of India.
     
  5. ITBP

    ITBP Regular Member

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    Re: Lie that English education to open world wide opportunity for Indi

    And many people even said they have seen many students from EMS who cant write or speak English with out many errors.

    So you admit knowing English not necessary if not mandatory. Then why so many unemployed in US? US is still developed and industrial country.

    So what finally stands? To be modern having industry is more necessary than having EMS. That's why ROK has not EMS but developed, but Zim has EMS but no industry.

    So in conclusion we Indians, to improve our country, we need to fight more against corruption etc, not emphasizing on EMS. Having EMS or not does not matter what matters is corruption free country. So again importance of eMS is grossly overrated.

    Believe me India is not only the country that harbors diversity.

    Category:Languages of Vietnam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Then having MNC is most important to develop as per your logic. But India having despite so many MNC's still in poorer condition than Vietnam which has little MNCs. How many are going to work in Vietnam branch out of 121 crore? That we send our entire generation to EMS only to destroy our culture?

    Hindi should be India's National language. Btw do you know in Nederland whose 75% of total GDP comes from service sector, home of many MNC company base, to them knowing English is more important than us, even Dutchs send their kids to Dutch medium school and later these kids despite studying in Dutch easily communicate with foreigners.

    Then will not Americans with better fluency on English have upper hand over Indians? As most books are written in English and and indians have to gain knowledge on English as Qualification mean while Americans gain knowledge on English by their birth, so naturally Americans would have upper hand over Indian. We are emphasizing too much on "having qualification on English". And EMS supporters also say knowing English will give opportunity world wide, which is false from US's example.

    If you support EMS because of India's very much english oriented system then I support you, but your logic that knowing english would give upper hand is stupid.

    Go settle there, unless you are tourist they will not continue speaking English, I asked one German lady about this, she said foreigners in Germany cant expect Germans to speak English 24 hours to them. So you realize in case of Brazil you need to know Portuguese more than English, and what little english you need to know for this EMS is not necessary. If Brazilians can have basic conversation in English with out studying in EMS then we Indians too can have communication with out going to EMS. Understand?

    I know many parents who despite having ability to afford did not send their kids to EMS, and those kids are lot brighter, mean while I saw many parents who sent their kids to EMS later to regret it would be better if they had not sent them to EMS, Specially parents of those kids who with science subjects. I know 1 simple computer technician, he went to EMS, now owes a small shop.

    Do only Indians need to read those english books? Hey Russians also read those books while learning as 2nd language, and they are better in tech than us(despite studying in Russian),

    your post actually indicates that all Indian students who study in Indian languages are just sadhu babas, dont know computer, dont use of phone etc. Is not it? Mean while all EMS students are smarter than smartest. Why dont we simply replace our mother tongue with English?

    Real victory only comes when you make enemy consider what is your own as their own.

    When Arabs were newly Muslims then Pagan Turkish tribes were hardcore anti-Muslim, but Arabs made Tuks consider Islam Turk's own and then it was Turks, who were once hard core anti-Muslim, later carried victory flag of Islam.

    Find out there is German English too(with heavy Germanized pronounce) but Germans dont lick English unnecessarily. They dont feel shame to speak German. Germans only knew English because they need it, and Indians knew English because Indians love it.

    Why we cant make world accept our language as their own like the way British did?
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2014
  6. TrueSpirit1

    TrueSpirit1 The Nobody Banned

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    Re: Lie that English education to open world wide opportunity for Indi

    Which one ? Have we decided yet ? Do we have some sort of consensus ?
    Unfortunately, answer to this is the raison d'etre for dominant position of English in India.
     
  7. ITBP

    ITBP Regular Member

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    Re: Lie that English education to open world wide opportunity for Indi

    Hindi. It is most widely used Indian language.
     
  8. TrueSpirit1

    TrueSpirit1 The Nobody Banned

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    Re: Lie that English education to open world wide opportunity for Indi

    True, but there is little consensus here. Even on DFI.
     
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  9. jackprince

    jackprince Turning into a frog Senior Member

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    Re: Lie that English education to open world wide opportunity for Indi

    Back to square one.:frusty:
     
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  10. मुल्लों का काल

    मुल्लों का काल Regular Member

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    Re: Lie that English education to open world wide opportunity for Indi

    Hindi should be our true official language and lingua franca without doubt...I would say highly sanskritize hindi till it becomes sanskrit:thumb:
     
  11. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

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    Re: Lie that English education to open world wide opportunity for Indi

    Bro, do you even Sanskrit?
     
  12. ITBP

    ITBP Regular Member

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    Re: Lie that English education to open world wide opportunity for Indi

    I have no doubt that India needs to be enslaved by Chinese for 50 years only then our extra obsession with English can be cured.

    If knowing English would be best- then the story goes- An astrologer came to a wise but poor man and said he could bring wise man's luck, he could make the wise man rich. then the wise man said "you really had this ability to bring back luck then why dont you bring back your luck at first?"

    Despite having English mother tongue why are so many American, Canadian or British unemployed? Because employment or unemployment are some where else.
     
  13. aerokan

    aerokan Regular Member

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    Re: Lie that English education to open world wide opportunity for Indi

    Why Hindi? Why not our mother-tongue (valid for most states in India)? The same argument you use against English is good enough not to use Hindi. Language and business generally follow the economic prosperity of all over a period of time. So over due course the languages of communication slowly shifts east. That's why you see patterns and new languages like Hinglish getting added to the dictionary and will get slowly get popular over time. If you want Hindi as the medium of communication, make sure all the Hindi speaking states become enterprising and economically and militarily very sound above the rest of the world for decades if not centuries at a stretch. Next step is to wait and watch to live to see that. :namaste:
     
  14. मुल्लों का काल

    मुल्लों का काल Regular Member

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    Re: Lie that English education to open world wide opportunity for Indi

    Yes but not completely,I am learning
     
  15. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: Lie that English education to open world wide opportunity for Indi

    Why go so far as Zimbabwe to start your tirade over English being the vehicle to get work opportunities.

    Check closer home - Pakistan.

    That goes against the grain of what you are attempting to espouse - so called nationalism.

    This quote displays a acute discomfort of experiencing our well earned Independence.

    Please move to China, and get enslaved.

    You will not return as an Indian, but as a Han since they destroy one's roots, custom, tradition, religion, language and make all Han.

    This is a historical fact and it is called Sinocisation. Google.

    Though not addressed to me, yet the answer is simple.

    One, quite a few of the six pack Joe the Plumber type chaps and Hockey Moms have very little desire for education.

    Even the Vice President candidate, Sarah Palin, proved to be an illiterate and a laughing stock of not only the world, but also of educated Americans.

    Further, the pay they demand for even blue collar jobs does not encourage the US entrepreneurs to employ them and so they outsource.

    You will also notice that the DIY kits are best available in the US.

    People do things themselves as far as possible since the labour rates are sky high.

    Adds to unemployment.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2014
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  16. Ajesh

    Ajesh Regular Member

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    Re: Lie that English education to open world wide opportunity for Indi

    It does open up opportunity in the World as the English based Economies are fairly advanced but at the end of the Day it all depends upon do You want to Boot Lick the English People and Earn your money and Lifestyle or you do not want to do that.

    I see many of them in the first category, selling their Souls, which in includes many Past so Called prominent Indians, but wont name them as there will be many Internet Warriors attacking me.
     
  17. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: Lie that English education to open world wide opportunity for Indi

    I might add that the Pakistani textbook "Primary Stage English" includes lessons such as "Pakistan My Country", "Our Flag", or "Our Great Leader" (Malik 1993: 5,6,7) which might well sound jingoistic to Western ears.

    Within the native culture, however, establishing a connection between English Language Teaching (ELT), patriotism and Muslim faith is seen as one of the aims of ELT, as the chairman of the Punjab Textbook Board openly states: "The board ... takes care, through these books to inoculate in the students a love of the Islamic values and awareness to guard the ideological frontiers of your [the students] home lands" (Punjab Text Book Board 1997).

    This is also true of India.

    Whereas in the olden days, British history was taught, these days there is nothing of the sort taught, and instead only Indian history. However, even that is full of contradiction and acrimony between what is known as 'Leftist historians' and the 'rightist historians'

    It all about who has a more 'nationalistic' version of history.
    .
    One wonders why are we not on the same page and only flourish and encourage controversies and gloat.
     
  18. ITBP

    ITBP Regular Member

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    Re: Lie that English education to open world wide opportunity for Indi

    Then English is not helping them, so the real reason behind their poor status is some thing else. Mean while in Vietnam MOI is Vietnamese they are better so development also lies any where else.

    Chinese are very proud of their culture and language, Indians are not. That's what I meant. And Indian Government's policy automatically makes us white in Indian skin.

    So the real reason behind US's unemployment is some where else, similarly if India needs to develop we need to emphasize on any where else.

    And out of 121 crore Indians how many are going to work in those call centers? That we send all to EMS? Mean while it was seen every where foreign tongue education makes kids lose their command on regional languages? When possibility to gain in return is so little?

    And West Europe and North European countries are more depended on international economy, to them English more important, yet they study in their language.

    Any way from DFI experience, I realized debate cant change a person's view point. Beyond of correction. We are screwed up all around. Neither our language, nor country, nor religion and nothing else is secure.

    Case closed.

    PS. I would rather advise EMS supporters only to teach their kids English, instead of sending them to school to make educated, as it seems having job in call center more important than properly being educated.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2014
  19. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: Lie that English education to open world wide opportunity for Indi

    Beyond the blue collar immigrants of Pakistan, there are also Pakistanis who are doing well, all because they know English, even if highly accented.

    In fact, they have produced one Nobel Prize winner, who unfortunately has not got the right recognition since he was an Ahmediya, which the Pakistani Muslims do not recognise as Muslim.

    Pakistanis have been nowhere compared to India because they do not evolve and seize the opportunities that come thee way.

    The reason is that they are transfixed in the superiority of Islam and their singular Islamic identity spurning everything that would dilute their Islamic identity to include language, Urdu, which in any case is not that of Pakistan, but that which evolved under the Moguls of Delhi and UP.

    While one should not abandon one;s heritage, yet one should seize opportunities so as to progress and not live in a world of day dream nationalism that only reduces one to ignorance and pecuniary.



    You say this because you are not conversant with history.

    The Han converted all who they captured into Han.

    Why are you so shy to Google and check on Sinocisation.

    Here, let me help you. Here is the links

    You can read more at
    Sinicization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    By imposing Hindi and Hindi culture, I presume it is the Hindi speaking way of doing a Sinocisation in India!


    Well, if you grudge 121 crore Indians of the Call Centre, you have a point.

    Have you an alternative to ensure that they and their family don't go hungry and into poverty?

    If you have, then do let us know.


    No you cannot change anything, just like you cannot change Modi's economic vision, which currently is biting the people.

    And yet, it makes sense to the rational people.

    Can live on foolish populism caring for the poor and then sinking so that even the little that is being done for the poor, cannot be done/

    Pragmatism is the call of the day.

    English medium schools not only teaches English, but three languages i.e. English, Hindi and the local language.

    You seem to be bigoted to feel that what you call EMS teaches only English.

    I take it that you have never been to an EMS wherein you would have realised the balderdash you claim as true.

    BTW, how did you learn English?

    And why?

    After all, you feel that it is not necessary!
     
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  20. ITBP

    ITBP Regular Member

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    Re: Lie that English education to open world wide opportunity for Indi

    I never said learning English should be stopped.

    Germans, French who dont study in English have more noble, BD's where almost all schools are Bengali there too 1 got noble prize with out reading in EMS.

    That's what we should do, if Dutch successfully converse in English in MNC's with out EMS then Indians too can. In fact where where EMS(or foreign tongue education) went every where students lost command on regional languages, now in Nepal there is boom in EMS, and very soon it was seen Nepalese students losing command on regional language.

    If you continue to use your war axe instead of sword you will automatically become careless of your sword and your sword will get rusty.

    In fact Japan was never Chinese occupied. Chinese are very proud, we can learn this thing from them.

    I think India's system is extremely pro-English, even Hindi is not necessary(considering all works of central in English, in such situation very little to for common people). What I say that is Indians over hype about on learning English and importance of call center. And Indians can easily work in Call center like Dutch do.

    See above, for which I accuse Indian Government for creating such extremely English oriented system, not common public. After all GOI decides policy and these are all harmful mainly. If Indian languages were used in India instead of English, then attraction to EMS would automatically fade away.

    It is better to let yourself float in favor of tide, is not it? So GOI has such responsibility so that Indian public can float themselves in such tide which will not be harmful to Indian culture.

    No they dont, local languages are very poorly taught in fact in CBSE no other Indian language apart from Hindi is taught. Only state run schools tend to teach mother tongue and also with good care on English.

    I never said knowing English unnecessary, EMS is. I learnt English as 3rd language(I am Raajbangshi)
     
  21. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: Lie that English education to open world wide opportunity for Indi

    Pidgin English can get one no where even though pidgin Hindi can get one to be understood in India to get around, but even that will not get one through in the Hindi belt workplace.

    Rajbonshi as in North Bengal and Western Assam?

    Sure they can, but one might like to remind one that India is the largest in call centres and it requires no rocket science to know why.

    That is because it was on field work by founding the Grameen Bank and pioneering the concepts of microcredit and microfinance.

    Md Yunus studied in Chittagong Collegiate School. Chittagong Collegiate School and College was established as Chittagong Government School in 1836. The school was the first English medium high school in Chittagong.

    You must know your facts and not assume that what you feel could be a fact, is a fact.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2014
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