Liaoning (Varyag) - Chinese Aircraft Carrier

[gogbot]

Big enough to house one maybe, which I doubt, not build one.

Of even greater concern to the Pentagon are massive tunnel entrances, estimated to be 60ft high, built into hillsides around the base.

Two 950 metre piers and three smaller ones would be enough to accommodate two carrier strike groups or amphibious assault ships.

this is what i got from reading the article.

Seems to me as if , even if they ar not building an Air craft carrier in those caves.

This base of theirs will be an important logistical center for their carrier groups.


PS.
Actually did some checking up, 60ft is too small for carriers.

 

[Armand2REP]

this is what i got from reading the article.

Seems to me as if , even if they ar not building an Air craft carrier in those caves.

This base of theirs will be an important logistical center for their carrier groups.

Nah, it is a submarine base. Carriers require too much infrastructure to put it there. The whole point of it was to make it survivable to a nuclear strike so SSBNs could survive.

 

[nitesh]

How am i derailing.

This is thread about Chinese Aircraft carriers, I posted an article about a Chinese base large enough to house a chines aircraft carrier.

Yes you are derailing, again asking you to read the article I posted

 

[gogbot]

Nah, it is a submarine base. Carriers require too much infrastructure to put it there. The whole point of it was to make it survivable to a nuclear strike so SSBNs could survive.

True the caves are for submarines. I guess i jumped the gun.

Still those massive piers outside can still service AC.

 

[gogbot]

Yes you are derailing, again asking you to read the article I posted

see there are two problems with your response mate.

First i asked how i am derailing, And all you told me was i am derailing.No new information just a repetition of your first claim.

Secondly
I have read the article, But unfortunately the copycats are at it again, They just created their own version of the Su-33. Called the J-15

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4070484

Is China Stealing Russia's Su-33?
By wendell minnick
Published: 4 May 2009

TAIPEI - Russia is eyeing China following media reports that an unlicensed variant of the Sukhoi Su-33 carrier-borne multirole fighter has been developed.

Sukhoi officials are "closely monitoring that situation but have not said any official position yet," said Sukhoi spokesman Aleksey Poveshchenko.

Ever since Beijing announced plans earlier this year to build its first aircraft carrier, speculation has been rampant over how the People's Liberation Army Navy would acquire carrier-borne fighters.

Sukhoi's Su-33, with its folding wings, is the only choice because of the U.S. and European arms embargo to China.

Russian officials, who say China is already illegally copying their Su-27SK fighter jet, have halted negotiations to sell the Su-33.

Beijing has not confirmed that it is working on a clone of the Su-27SK - dubbed Flanker by NATO.

"China will not acknowledge to the Russians that these are copies," said Andrei Chang, a China military analyst at Kanway Information Center. "They say it is an independent domestic production designed solely by themselves."

China owns an Su-33 prototype, which it obtained from the Ukrainian Research Test and Flying Training Center at Nitka, Chang said.

"In 2001, a Chinese delegation visited the Ukraine and convinced officials to sell the T10K prototype," Chang said.

He noted that the intellectual property rights for the aircraft belong to Sukhoi, not Ukraine.

In 2006, there were reports that China was talking to Russia about buying up to 48 Su-33s. But the Russians ended the discussions after Sukhoi discovered the Flanker-copying effort.

Tracing the Trouble

The history of China's Su-27SKs begins in 1995, when Russia signed a $2.5 billion joint production license agreement with Shenyang Aircraft Corp. to build 200 of the supersonic jets. Equip-ped with Russian avionics, radars and engines, the plane was dubbed the J-11A in Chinese service.

But the deal soured in 2006 after only 95 fighters when it was discovered that China was secretly developing the J-11B with Chinese avionics and systems.

The first Russian acknowledgement that its Su-27SK was being copied came from Mikhail Pogosyan, Russian Aircraft Corp.'s first vice president, in February at the Aero India show in Bangalore.

Pogosyan downplayed the quality and reliability of Chinese copies, saying the "original will always be better ... than making a fake copy."

Chang also charged that China is planning to copy Sukhoi's new Su-34 fighter bomber, a variant of the Su-27 with a side-by-side seat configuration. He said Chinese engineers are now conducting wind tunnel tests on a model.

Poveshchenko denied any knowledge of that.

"We have not heard about any wind tests of the Su-34," he said.

In December, Chinese officials agreed to stop violating Russian defense intellectual property rights at the 13th session of a Chinese-Russian joint commission on military and technical cooperation in Beijing. Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyu-kov and Pogosyan attended the meeting.

"The Chinese have a history of adapting other countries' technology for their own purposes," said U.K.-based Thomas Kane, author of the book "Chinese Grand Strategy and Maritime Power."

A close history between the former Soviet Union and China, going back to the Korean War, makes Russian military equipment an easy target. ■

 

[nitesh]

see there are two problems with your response mate.

First i asked how i am derailing, And all you told me was i am derailing.No new information just a repetition of your first claim.

There is no problem with my response you were not reading the article I posted it talked about type of air crafts going to be used in the carriers and you were pointing about the facility to hide a carrier i care a $hit about it you can make one underground China for hiding the carrier but the point was type of aircraft so stick to that

Secondly

I have read the article, But unfortunately the copycats are at it again, They just created their own version of the Su-33. Called the J-15

See this is your problem the article you posted does not even mention J 15 this is not the way of putting the things across. The article I posted clearly says that china is still "some years away" from having fully operational carrier if you have something to refute it post it. Stop running in tangents

 

[gogbot]

There is no problem with my response you were not reading the article I posted it talked about type of air crafts going to be used in the carriers and you were pointing about the facility to hide a carrier i care a $hit about it you can make one underground China for hiding the carrier but the point was type of aircraft so stick to that



See this is your problem the article you posted does not even mention J 15 this is not the way of putting the things across. The article I posted clearly says that china is still "some years away" from having fully operational carrier if you have something to refute it post it. Stop running in tangents

Honestly, did you ever bother looking for info on the chines clone j-15 yourself.

tell me i cant exactly post Google translate link from Chinese websites, that are the only reporters of the j-15 in detail.

Let me ask you a question, what is "some years away" is that 2-3 years, 4-5 years. China say its will get a carrier sometime between 2013 and 2015.
If so even, "some years away" clearly matches that plan.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/China-begins-training-first-batch-of-aircraft-carrier-fighter-pilots/3636384

China begins training first batch of aircraft carrier fighter pilots-2008


Manu Pubby Tags : China aircraft carrier Posted: Saturday , Sep 20, 2008 at 0119 hrs New Delhi, September 19

ndian maritime security experts are keenly watching China as it starts training its first batch of fighter pilots to operate from the country’s future fleet of aircraft carriers. A small article in a recent issue of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Daily announced that the first batch of 50 pilots cadets have been inducted at the Dalian Naval Academy to undergo training on ‘ship borne aircraft flight’.

China remains the only major military power that does not possess an aircraft carrier but the country is fast moving towards acquiring a fleet of indigenous carriers and the training programme for pilots is a rare official acknowledgement of the project.

As the article notes, the training programme is a significant milestone in China’s quest for a potent naval force. “The first pilot programme of recruiting pilot cadets is an important decision of the PLA Navy to realise a strategic transformation in the new period,” it says.

The news is being keenly watched by Indian maritime security policy makers as it gives an insight into China’s secretive aircraft carrier project. The first batch of pilots undergoing training on ‘basic theories of surface ship and flight’ will pass out from the academy in four years ¿ indicating that China will have a potent training platform for actual ship borne fighters by that time.

As reported by The Indian Express, the Indian Navy also estimates that China will get its first functional aircraft carrier — a refurbished Soviet era Kiev class warship — by 2012 and will use it exclusively to train Navy personnel.

Incidentally, the Russian origin carrier, which has been renamed as the ‘Shilang’, has been transferred to the Dalian Naval Academy and is being fitted with a Chinese power plant. The Indian Navy believes that the carrier will never be able to function as a full fledged warship but will be used to carry out basic landing and take off practice.

While China is fast moving towards acquiring an aircraft carrier, analysts say that it could take nearly two decades ¿ the time required to train crews and fine tune operations aboard warships of this size - to have a fully operational fleet.

The US also estimates that China is capable of starting construction of an indigenous aircraft carrier by the end of the decade. The latest Pentagon report on the Chinese military, however, says that the country ‘could not have an operational, domestically-produced aircarft carrier before 2015’.

 

[nitesh]

Honestly, did you ever bother looking for info on the chines clone j-15 yourself.

tell me i cant exactly post Google translate link from Chinese websites, that are the only reporters of the j-15 in detail.

Let me ask you a question, what is "some years away" is that 2-3 years, 4-5 years. China say its will get a carrier sometime between 2013 and 2015.
If so even, "some years away" clearly matches that plan.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/China-begins-training-first-batch-of-aircraft-carrier-fighter-pilots/3636384

U read the link you posted or not? here are the excerpts:

While China is fast moving towards acquiring an aircraft carrier, analysts say that it could take nearly two decades ¿ the time required to train crews and fine tune operations aboard warships of this size - to have a fully operational fleet.

That is what is the crux of the article posted by me now if you can refute that with some credible link please go ahead i would be happy to be enlightened

 

[SHASH2K2]

Chinese Aspiration for Aircraft Carrier
at 19:00


US statements and imagery show that China is making progress in completing the refurbishment of the ex-Soviet/Ukrainian aircraft carrier Varyag , now reported to have been renamed the Admiral Shilang .

Admiral Robert F Willard, Commander of the US Pacific Command, told the US House of Representatives on 23 March that "China's leaders are pursuing an aircraft carrier capability. ... I expect this carrier [the ex- Varyag ] to become operational around 2012 and will likely be used to develop basic aircraft carrier skills." While it remains to be seen whether China can also assemble its new carrier air wing by 2012, Adm Willard's statement marks a reversal of the US intelligence community opinion expressed in the 2002 annual US Department of Defense report on Chinese military modernisation, which stated: "While continuing to research and discuss possibilities, China appears to have set aside indefinitely plans to acquire an aircraft carrier."

Near the time of Adm Willard's testimony, on about 17 March, imagery available on Chinese military issue web pages showed the Shilang had emerged from, and had been placed beside, the new Dalian harbour area drydock it entered in late April 2009. By 23 March this source was showing that the greatly modified hull structure had entered the process of degaussing (demagnetising) to reduce vulnerability to magnetic mines and to aid the operation of sophisticated electronic components. Major modifications began on the carrier's prominent island in mid-October 2009. Sections fore and aft the stack were removed and replaced with new pre-fabricated structures to accommodate the four arrays of its new phased-array naval radar. This radar is likely to be similar to the Ukrainian-influenced active phased-array system developed early in the last decade for the Chinese Navy's Type 052C destroyers.

Recent imagery also shows increased activity on the carrier's deck: an indication that work may also be under way to replace the aircraft arresting gear or rebuild engine-blast barriers used to help launch aircraft off the carrier's ski-jump ramp.

A lack of progress in negotiations with Russia to purchase a useful number of modernised twin-engine Sukhoi Su-33 carrier-borne fighters, because of a combination of Russian frustration over copyright protection and Russian demands that China purchase an economically viable number (between 30 and 40), has turned attention to the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation's longstanding effort to produce its own carrier-based fighter. Inasmuch as Shenyang's J-11 is a modified copy of the Su-27SK with an improved radar and eventually a Chinese turbofan, Shenyang is expected to produce its own version of the Su-33 or a carrier-capable version of the J-11, sometimes referred to as the 'J-15'. In late August 2009 unconfirmed Chinese reports emerged that a prototype for this Shenyang carrier-borne fighter had made its first flight.

The Chengdu Aircraft Corporation also appears ready to produce a carrier-capable version of its J-10, although this single-engine fighter would require significant modification. However, in November 2009 a Chengdu test pilot was reported by Chinese media as saying Chengdu had conducted simulations of a J-10 carrier launch.

The People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) is also developing critical support aircraft for its future carrier air wing. In late October 2009 internet images emerged of a Changhe Z-8 helicopter carrying a new retractable radar array, similar in configuration to the French Horizon radar used for battlefield support and mounted on a Super Puma helicopter. However, there are also indications that the PLA may be considering a version of the Sukhoi Su-80 twin-boom utility turboprop or another indigenous twin-turboprop design for airborne early warning, anti-submarine warfare and carrier onboard delivery missions.http://weapons.technology.youngester.com/2010/04/chinese-aspiration-for-aircraft-carrier.html

 

[bhramos]

China will build 4-6 aircraft carriers, F-15 carrier aircraft has been flight

June 2, 2010 issue of "Jane's Defense Weekly" magazine published in Washington correspondent Ted – Parsons (Ted Parsons) of the article, the article entitled "China test carrier-based version of F-11B prototype" . Jane's said that China FYJS military site has revealed a new version of the F-11B photos canard wing and the short of caudal and other features are consistent with the SU -33, Jane's also noted that China develop its own carrier version of F-11B at the same time, it may also purchase Su -33, is also possible that China's use of carrier-based version of the F-11B to promote further bargaining with Russia. Jane's also speculation that 4-6 aircraft carriers in China and the rapid construction of aircraft carrier construction program is perhaps the result of orders for Russian Su -33.

The article first said that Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (Shenyang Aircraft Corporation) airport showed pictures of looks: China now is testing a F-11B fighter prototype carrier-based version of the early.

Jane's article said that China FYJS military site on May 20 revealed the photos show a new version of the F-11B aircraft, with the front wing Gaixing Ji obvious "duck"-style wing, relatively short caudal (Editor's Note: China Forum called it "F-15"³ carrier-based fighter). These features are produced by the company and the Russian Sukhoi SU -33 line carrier aircraft, and reported consistent with Shenyang over the years trying to "copy" of the model.

Jane's article goes on to say, the latest pictures in this group before, there is a group of pictures show, the PLA Naval Air Force (PLANAF) forces in the procurement of land (non-carrier) of the F-11B aircraft. In late August 2009, several Chinese military forum for the dissemination of a web site on anecdotes, said carrier-based version of the F-11B has already begun testing new network message is implied, and now may also include slip jump (off) test.

Jane's said, however, the latest photos appeared in China only shows the existence of a prototype, as the prototype is equipped with folding wings, it is not clear, although there is a photo showing the end of hook block, but can not make this final conclusion. As the aircraft prototype in the end is equipped with the Russian "Saturn" (Saturn) the company's Al-31 turbofan engine, or equipment of the Chinese-made Shenyang Liming Aero-Engine Corporation WS-10A "Taihang" engine, is still not sure, Jane s comments that followed, which experienced the "chaos" of the development process, there is a late 2009's reported that the first flight of the prototype two-seat F-11BS leaves the engine off and crashed.

Jane's article goes on to say, the Russian side since the beginning of 2005, "China needs to meet the Soviet -33 restart talks with the Chinese production line," Jane's comment to the issue, the Russian side has repeatedly stressed that China's ability to master many of them the necessary machine body improvement (technology) to the J -11 / SU -27 into a secure carrier-based fighter, skeptical. They also realized that China obtained from the Ukraine, a T-10K or Su -33 prototype. In August 2009 Moscow air show, there is news that China has to purchase about 40 for improved SU -33 and the cost of restarting production lines with suitable, this message also hinted that China is developing its own ship F-11B version contains the same time, it may also purchase Russian-made Su–33. Of course, also possible that China has used the F-11B carrier-based version of the successful to promote further bargaining with Russia.

Jane's concluded that the potential demand of China's aircraft carrier may be a favorable factor for Russia. Hong Kong, China in early 2009, news sources revealed that, in addition to being converted Dalian receiving aircraft carrier Kuznetsov addition, Beijing is considering the construction of 4-6 aircraft carrier. China in Dalian and Shanghai are the new shipyard capable of building aircraft carriers; while (China) the result of the rapid construction of aircraft carriers is perhaps the Russian Soviet -33 orders.

http://www.global-military.com/chin...rs-f-15-carrier-aircraft-has-been-flight.html

is it possible?
PLAN is trying and cant 1 AC?
Is PLAN thinking like IN?

 

[bhramos]

@ Ordie from other forum.
If China builds and deploys a carrier, what will Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, India and Vietnam will do in response?

 

[badguy2000]

@ Ordie from other forum.
If China builds and deploys a carrier, what will Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, India and Vietnam will do in response?

what can Japan, S.Korea ,Taiwan India and Vietnam do in response?
to cry like a baby? or to deploy AC too?=love

I don't think CHina needs 4-6 ACs. 3ACs is enough to CHina.


AC is not the decisive weaons in the coming sea wars between major powers,but just a police tool to bully small or mid-size states ,beat piracy or for rescue missions

So,3 AC is necessary,but 4AC is a waste.

 

[Armand2REP]

@ Ordie from other forum.
If China builds and deploys a carrier, what will Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, India and Vietnam will do in response?

Japan has already responded by developing a carrier killer. Vietnam has bought more submarines. ROK is updating their air force, Taiwan is wanting F-35B, and we all know what India is doing. The US is advocating more carriers in the Pacific if it happens. There is plenty of time to figure out what to do, it will be decades before China has an operational carrier.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The Island has been completely painted in navy grey.

project is going pretty slow..

Thanks to the brave photographer, Photography is Strictly prohibited!!

 

[nandu]

The Carrier In the Cornfield – PLAN Aircraft Carrier Program Advancing

NEWTOWN, Conn.:- The Chinese Navy's aircraft carrier program appears to be picking up momentum with Chinese news sources reporting two major steps forward in the development of the necessary systems for these ships.

The most remarkable of these steps is the construction of what appears to be a hybrid of an office building and an aircraft carrier. This has already been dubbed the "Carrier in the Cornfield" in reference to the famous U.S. Naval Surface Warfare "Cruiser in the Cornfield" facility at Moorestown, NJ. The New Jersey facility was used to test out the AEGIS air warfare system and subsequently provided a research capability to test new items of equipment under carefully controlled conditions. It is likely that the Chinese facility is intended for similar work.

Aircraft and helicopters are frequently seen on the roof of this building. It appears that current efforts are aimed at developing the operational art needed for on-deck operations and flow, and then on training PLAN personnel in these functions. It also appears that the dummy superstructure on the roof of this facility is being used to test the phased-array radars being developed for the new carriers. It can be assumed that the facility is also being used to check for electromagnetic interference between the radar and the aircraft. One thing can safely be assumed - the Chinese are not landing aircraft on the roof of the building. The aircraft there are being lifted into position by a crane.

The other new development is based on reports that Shenyang is designing a new J-15 naval fighter, possibly using technologies from its next-generation fighter bid for J-14, which appears to have been rejected in favor of Chengdu's design. Whether this is a development of the Su-33 (one example of which was reportedly purchased from Ukraine in 2001) or a completely new design is unknown.

A J-15 prototype was seen parked at the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation airfield in May 2010, revealing its arresting hook retracted beneath the redesigned tailcone, enlarged folding wings, strengthened landing gears with twin nosewheels, and a pair of small canard foreplanes to improve its low-speed handling.

These developments suggest that the CPLAN is very serious about establishing a carrier-based aviation arm. The degree of research that is under way speaks of a well-planned and systematic approach to developing an indigenous carrier force.

The more interesting question is, why have the Chinese allowed this information to appear at this time? It is most unlikely they did so to satisfy the curiosity of Western naval analysts. A more likely hypothesis is that there is conflict between those who see the Chinese fleet as a primarily coastal defense force and those who envision a more assertive power projection role.

For the last few years, the former group has appeared to dominate the debate, with Chinese major surface combatant construction slowed to a crawl while the building of frigates and fast attack craft has accelerated.

Releasing information on carrier design and development may well be a ploy to use Western reaction to these programs as a way of motivating the Chinese authorities into increasing support for the carrier program.

http://www.defencetalk.com/chinese-navy-aircraft-carrier-program-26836/

 

[redragon]

Chinese Aircraft Carrier Shi Lang

Nov 18, 2010 Dalian, China
the outlook

FL3000/HQ-10+ Chimney for auxiliary machinery which proves diesel generator tested

FL3000/HQ-10, a closer look

Cantar+Radar

AESA still missing

Type 730

FL3000/HQ-10 another angle

Outlook of the other side

 

[redragon]

the best pic so far to prove engine is installed and undergone testing
Some may still argue this is a PS

 

[redragon]

There is no doubt to me that Vayag will be in service, given the high efficency China showing recently on other project, I bet it will have the sea trial next year, and should be operational with aircrafts around 2015.
Now, some members like LF, Vladimir and armand obviously underestimated the ability Chinese have.

 

[maomao]

Nice going.....Gud Job!

 

[badguy2000]

There is no doubt to me that Vayag will be in service, given the high efficency China showing recently on other project, I bet it will have the sea trial next year, and should be operational with aircrafts around 2015.
Now, some members like LF, Vladimir and armand obviously underestimated the ability Chinese have.

MR. LF ,Valdimir and Armand are quite unique guys..