Letter: DFI to Defence Minister: Please don't kill Tejas Mk2

[binayak95]

Well, we need a counter argument to the Air Force's immediate need to induct more fighters. That was the best that I could come up with. What is the Boeing option?

The Boeing's offer is to build the F-18 Advanced Super Hornet, a far better and modern fighter than the F-16IN, for both the IAF and the IN.

They also suggest Make in India and full support in the AMCA project. They are getting desperate since they no longer have any projects for the USAF. Lockheed Martin is building the F-35. Once F-18 Super Hornet production finishes, they'll have no fighters in production. We can use that!

Did you read my edited answer (the previous one)

 

[Aghore_King]

@Adioz Please suggest Def Min to put mirage 2000's soul in Tejas airframe....
I don't know why HAL is sticking to concept of LCA , they should evolve it to Medium combat aircraft based on Mirage 2000....

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Don`t fall for the trap, their is nothing they will be offering for Indigenous designs, Its bad news for their long term business with India ..

Few in IAF will be more than willing to kill it for gud retirement ( It has become a tradition ) along with media making paid headlines ..

 

[Adioz]

The Boeing's offer is to build the F-18 Advanced Super Hornet, a far better and modern fighter than the F-16IN, for both the IAF and the IN.

They also suggest Make in India and full support in the AMCA project. They are getting desperate since they no longer have any projects for the USAF. Lockheed Martin is building the F-35. Once F-18 Super Hornet production finishes, they'll have no fighters in production. We can use that!

Did you read my edited answer (the previous one)

Yeah, read the previous answer.

Let us have more members weigh in their opinions on the F-18. Personally I am not sure what I feel about such a deal. The only positive about F-18 that I see is that Navy is buying it as well.

@Adioz Please suggest Def Min to put mirage 2000's soul in Tejas airframe....
I don't know why HAL is sticking to concept of LCA , they should evolve it to Medium combat aircraft based on Mirage 2000....

We could mention it as a distant upgrade, like a Tejas Mk III, but frankly, I have no idea how much redesign is required to make it into a medium weight like Mirage. From what I can tell, its not simply a matter of scaling up the dimensions, the entire air-frame might have to be redesigned, at which point it becomes practically a new fighter.

 

[aditya10r]

I have always had this question why does iaf asks for a light weight fighter aircraft.}??????

 

[binayak95]

Yeah, read the previous answer.

Let us have more members weigh in their opinions on the F-18. Personally I am not sure what I feel about such a deal. The only positive about F-18 that I see is that Navy is buying it as well.


We could mention it as a distant upgrade, like a Tejas Mk III, but frankly, I have no idea how much redesign is required to make it into a medium weight like Mirage. From what I can tell, its not simply a matter of scaling up the dimensions, the entire air-frame might have to be redesigned, at which point it becomes practically a new fighter.

Okay, but seriously, dont mention the Rafale. Trust me. Govt's had it with both Dassault and the IAF

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Light fighter ( Tejas ) are given first priority as it is obvious by operational nature of IAF, There are more sorties and more airspace are patrol and scanned by light fighters in India by IAF, Medium fighter such as MIG-29 and mostly tasked with interception and escort duties this was noted during Operation Safed Sagar where as Light fighters tasked with CAS and CAP and more sorties were taken at back of light fighters, Even today highest sortie rate are of Light fighters and medium fighters such as MIG-29 are still doing escort and interception duties with AWACS and mainly tasked with air to air role rather multi-role, This make abundantly clear why IAF asking for successive variants of Tejas before some paid media outlets making noise about single engine fighter competition ..

Tejas make more sense that its a more efficient machine in terms of operational cost and maintenance cost giving capabilities for the needs of IAF ..

I have always had this question why does iaf asks for a light weight fighter aircraft.}??????

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I personally don`t believe Tejas MK2 program is anywhere near danger, Rather focus is on MK1A whose primary job is to keep production line busy ..

But, please do shoot the letter and be frank and open with logic in your approach ..

 

[Aghore_King]

Yeah, read the previous answer.

Let us have more members weigh in their opinions on the F-18. Personally I am not sure what I feel about such a deal. The only positive about F-18 that I see is that Navy is buying it as well.


We could mention it as a distant upgrade, like a Tejas Mk III, but frankly, I have no idea how much redesign is required to make it into a medium weight like Mirage. From what I can tell, its not simply a matter of scaling up the dimensions, the entire air-frame might have to be redesigned, at which point it becomes practically a new fighter.

But single engine MII will also take 5-7 years ....

 

[Kunal Biswas]

@ersakthivel, you comment and suggestion here will be very valuable ..

 

[Steven Rogers]

Better to try than sitting like a duck.... We all want investment in Tejas, we all want development in Tejas and we all want our airforce using Indigenous Maal more than the imports, this investment will be prove worth in future, and waiting for F16s and gripens which won't come so early for mere screwdriver technology, is a pure waste of our resources, tejas has enough technology to transfer in private PSUs and then manufacture it in double than the projected amount... India needs heavy investment in Gas Turbine itself than asking to others who will shelve two gen old tech... I'm supporting this initiative.

 

[delbruky]

In my opinion besides writing to Raksha Mantri about Tejas Mk2, there is a need to mention that efforts must be made from HER END to prop up the Kaveri Jet Engine research Project and bring it to conclusion. How many more years do the tax payers have to wait for a successful kaveri for Tejas 1A, Tejas 2 and for AMCA.

Please mention Kaveri Engine Development Delays and Arjun Tank in the letter as well.
Indigenous planes are just aluminum sheet wrappers without a valid indigenous engine. At present we are fully dependent on GE 404 and GE 414 engines for IAF. Did you know that General Electric can monitor all it's engines performance in flight via a satellite up-link built in the engine hardware, IAF can't think of stealth without an indigenous engine.

 

[Steven Rogers]

Please mention Kaveri Engine Development Delays and Arjun Tank in the letter as well.
Indigenous planes are just aluminum sheet wrappers without a valid indigenous engine. At present we are fully dependent on GE 404 and GE 414 engines for IAF. Did you know that General Electric can monitor all it's engines performance in flight via a satellite up-link built in the engine hardware, IAF can't think of stealth without an indigenous engine.

Really!! If that is possible, they could had save various of their aircrafts from crash

 

[cannonfodder]

F-16:
F-16 could not start in cold conditions in Leh during MMRCA trials. We will have to spend more money to modify to operate in our conditions. Whereas Tejas Mk1 has already proven in cold/dry conditions and made specifically to operate in high altitudes.

Gripen:
Engine, GaN Radar etc are not made by saab and will be difficult to replace/maintain as they come from multiple countries. Tejas Mk2 will as capable as Gripen. Gripen is very costly plane to start with and we can achieve similar performance with Tejas Mk2 version.

Economy:
Manufacturing foreign SE in private owned company is similar to licensed production of AC fighters in public sector( which has been already happening under ToT). This has very little value, moreover any foreign SE fighter will require at least 5 years before any AC can roll out from domestic manufacturers. Better is to open credit line to private players & provide seed money to make Tejas AC (with guaranteed orders) for private players. In essence, it will be better to put money (that would be invested in foreign SE aircraft) to open private line for Tejas and investing in Mk2 development. Tejas Mk2 can also be used as test bed for subsystems that need to be developed in AMCA.

We have 2 significant adversary:
1. Pakistan: Older F-16/JF-17 can be taken care of by Tejas MK1A fleets itself
2. China: F-16 has not perform well in the MMRCA trials.

 

[smestarz]

Also would it be beneficial to point out that most parts of Tejas (for our own use or export) are ready except the most important one.. THE ENGINE.
Engine is the reason for most of the delay with IAF refusing to accept Tejas with the Kaveri that was available citing that TWR Ratio is not acceptable.

With our own engine (which should be ready thanks to offset of the Rafale deal) the cost of buying, operating. maintaining and even upgrading would be cheaper or competetive to similar figures from F-16 or Gripen, Further I do not see any other plane so widely tested as Tejas for various environments from hot deserts of Rajasthan or the high altitudes of Leh., It is a LMRCA designed by India, for the India specific needs. Further what about the point of using India specific weapons? For example India is developing some missiles like Astra or Sudarshan etc, for these to be incorporated on Tejas would be cheaper and more easy than to getting them incorporated on F-16 and Gripen, You seen how much France added for India specific changes? ITs not that France was unfair, but incorporating these weapons on Tejas will be cheaper, faster as we would not be at the mercy of the foreign vendor.

Also the weapons that India would uses, some of the confidential part should be informed to the foreign vendor so that those can be incorporated. So if we have to incorporate say Astra on F-16 some confidential information would have to be passed to LM for them to then tweak the codes etc and to certify the use of Astra on F-16 and that means part of the technology would not remain so confidential. But if its Tejas , then those critical information is not going to sit on American desk. would this point be important?

Well, we need a counter argument to the Air Force's immediate need to induct more fighters. That was the best that I could come up with. What is the Boeing option?

The argument that Tejas is not in the same class as F-16 will give wind to F-16 induction.

Will be added to the body of point no. 3.6.2

 

[vishwaprasad]

I support LCA, In my honest opinion Rafale should be the last fighter which we have purchased. Henceforth priority should be given to homemade stuff. F-16 or Grippen will simply kill our LCA. Concentrate on LCA and in the meanwhile place follow on Rafale orders making it around some 100+ for both Airforce and Navy... But LCA should never be abandoned in favor of F-16 or Grippen.

 

[Screambowl]

The Boeing's offer is to build the F-18 Advanced Super Hornet, a far better and modern fighter than the F-16IN, for both the IAF and the IN.

They also suggest Make in India and full support in the AMCA project. They are getting desperate since they no longer have any projects for the USAF. Lockheed Martin is building the F-35. Once F-18 Super Hornet production finishes, they'll have no fighters in production. We can use that!

Did you read my edited answer (the previous one)

India gets nothing out of it for AMCA. Forget it.
Technology is something which is kept out of reach.
No matter what! Most of us here are engineers or majors in natural science and every one knows how a thesis is written. Without your permission or University permission, your knowledge cannot be used. And if used, there needs to be reference. Same is the process in manufacturing and design.

 

[tsunami]

Count me in.... We should always favour Indian weapon over any foreign mall. I prefer Tejas over F-22, forget F-16.

 

[MKM]

Isn't there an urgent need for both projects going simultaneously?
85 Mig-27 & 250 Mig-21 & need to increase the number of Squadrons?

 

[Sidd]

Isn't there an urgent need for both projects going simultaneously?
85 Mig-27 & 250 Mig-21 & need to increase the number of Squadrons?

Actually No..if HAL increases it's production rate to 24 fighters per year..then we can easily catch up to the numbers(remember we are also adding 3 sq of Su30MKI & 2 of Rafale in the meantime).
Problem is that MoD has ordered just 84 MK1A.