Las Vegas Shooting: More Than 50 Killed and 200 Hurt Near Mandalay Bay

Razor

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@Project Dharma I think the reason for lib. Gun ownership in the us is they had to expand West and exterminate native Americans who they viewed as an existential threat.
Liberal gun ownership was the norm in the whole of Americas.
 

dhananjay1

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Still no news about motive of the shooting. It can't be too difficult to find out. They must have checked what kind of people he spent time with or what sites he visited.
 

Suryavanshi

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Back in 80s our district was hit with major Naxalite problem, people got shot and robbed in the midst of night. Unfortunately for them when they try to do the same in our village they returned back with holes in their head.
Yes I am all in for arms right.
I have the right to defend myself.
 

Abhijat

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@Project Dharma I think the reason for lib. Gun ownership in the us is they had to expand West and exterminate native Americans who they viewed as an existential threat.
Liberal gun ownership was the norm in the whole of Americas.
Absolutely agree , in addition it's fear of various kind from government , to deep/secret state , to mexicans/muslims . Most of the gun totting and supporting people are groups that have one or more common fear of above.

Karma transgress through cycle of life and birth . They (white people) took part in genocide of millions of people in both americas and tool was gun , so fear that other would come and take these land from them , using same tools.
 

HeinzGud

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It's quite obvious that you have no idea of what you are talking about , when you call my point invalid....Have you even read what i wrote ?

I never said guns are not effective , but i said there are much more effective tools for people who want to create mass murders(gave two examples)......Just check the number of poeple who have died in terrorist incidents in EUROPE (an urmarmed society)....much more than US...Now ban Trucks and Knives too...

Plus Americans don't need suggestions from countries where genocides against minorities are common........

"People of Mid West Need Guns" ....What a joke....Unregulated Guns are the reason why middle east is a Hell Hole now !!!

I won't waste my time here anymore as i was here to share the real issues and not get into these pointless arguements, or even read this thread....
No I think you didn't understand what I said. My point is that there are no effective weapon than guns to create mass murders. Knives are just child's play and you cannot continue knife attack indefinitely. Plus the damage is minimal. Same goes for trucks and cars.

The terrorist are desperate in the EU. That's why they use trucks and knives for their slaughters. If they can get guns, I don't think that they will think twice to use them.

US is the biggest genocider in the world. Just look up what you people have done to red Indians.

"Mid West" means the "US Mid West". Not Middle East. Regulate or unregulate guns are a threat to the society. It's a joke that some one says we are safe because there are guns available. It has bad as saying people are moral because of the bible.
 

angeldude13

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India would be the worst example where thousands get killed every month by muggers and looters / robbers who are armed with firearm ( Crude / sophisticated ) and the majority of victims have nothing more than a kitchen knife ..
An incident happened with me few months ago. Luckily I wan't mugged or robbed but they tried really hard. Delhi is not only unsafe for women it is unsafe for everybody from young men to old people.
It seems like each and every government wants to play poor people politics. So if they do not want to protect us, they should allow us to carry firearms.
 

Project Dharma

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Are you saying that there should be a certain mindset before guns are legalized/liberalized??
Yes, at the very least the average bloke has to have the consciousness of why gun ownership is legalized and there have to be consequences for misuse. For that law and order system has to be fixed, education is a must, judicial backlog must be cleared etc. Introducing guns into a chaotic society like present is just a recipe for disaster.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Its the same every where, Specially norther India ..

An incident happened with me few months ago. Luckily I wan't mugged or robbed but they tried really hard. Delhi is not only unsafe for women it is unsafe for everybody from young men to old people.
It seems like each and every government wants to play poor people politics. So if they do not want to protect us, they should allow us to carry firearms.
 

Project Dharma

meh
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-In an normal and sane society , what is the importance and need of gun culture ? , so is america normal/sane and solution is arming people or moral teaching ?
Self defense, defense of property and country. Protection in case the government becomes tyrant.

> so is america normal/sane and solution is arming people or moral teaching ?

American society fabric is based on Christianity as a religion. The present system has broken down and is severely lacking a moral compass. To answer your question both.

> -Do you think more guns would solve the problem? Where were the mavericks when people were getting shot ?

Solve what problem? Define the problem fully, please. It won't solve every problem. It certainly wouldn't help in a Vegas like scenario. It would solve some problems. Like help protect my property against lawless blacks who are illegal gun owners and devoid of compassion and loot people all the time.


> Would the above person be able to have caused such harm with one firearm and regulated number of bullets ? In India , only fix number of bullets can be purchased from shop ( IIRC 90 or so) . Can you purchase 40 firearms in India ?

Again, there are a large number of illegal weapons in the American black market already. I can acquire one if about five minutes if I wanted to. As for bullets, I typically go through about 500 when I go to the gun range. How are gun owners supposed to practice with 90 bullets? Did you know you can roll your own ammunition? For somebody like the Vegas shooter who spent months planning the attack, would rolling own bullets be hard?
 

square

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India would be the worst example where thousands get killed every month by muggers and looters / robbers who are armed with firearm ( Crude / sophisticated ) and the majority of victims have nothing more than a kitchen knife ..
ok...thank you very much !!!..........
 

Khagesh

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A few points that may need clarification.

This is not about Indians being able to defend themselves or not. Indian constitution (probably the most lousy piece of document in the world) still could not bring itself to deny Indians that right. The right to private defence against reasonable apprehension, for self and for protection of others and once ones own home and hearth is allowed but only so long as the reasonable apprehension exists. The private defence is unlimited ie. you can kill too.

If you are inclined towards more adventurous life then please note that for most crimes in India the conviction rate is like 2%. So my advise is you can get away with murder, easily, why not use it :p.

Also while crime in India is pretty high but deflated for population and poverty it is miniscule except in certain perverted categories. In fact the whole of India knows that the conviction rate is 2% still nobody actually heeds my advise - damn. India is heaven on earth. Modi ji can testify to it. Don't forget the Venezula riots last year and Modi ji tendering anticipatory apology in Goa dated November 13, 2016.

Now that the needless is out of the way, the more pertinent question of what is reasonable in the case of private defence in USA which is the real point here.

A gent asked if I would worry about a knife or about my ordinary type somewhat wayward son. I am surprised this question is asked by an Indian to another Indian. Nearly all homes in India, all religions all castes have a kitchen and all have knives in there. Yet still no parent wants his kids handling or bearing a Rampuri chaku. Sikhs are legally allowed to bear Kripan but they as a community mind their Kripan in a very mature manner. Nearly all mountain based tribes and populations own Khukris and these are not even allowed to be borne in public, legally, still the usage is very mature and subdued. There really is no comparison here. People mind both the knives and their sons and Sunny Leone - all three are kept apart. USA does need to learn a lot.

I really fail to understand why US citizens and society tries to make it a debate on fundamental rights when it is really quite basic. Can they afford to lose 10000 lives to gun violence every year. Here are two inputs from wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
For violent crimes, assault, robbery, and rape, guns were used 0.83% of the time in self-defense - McDowall, David, Brian Wiersema (1994). "The Incidence of Defensive Firearm Use by US Crime Victims, 1987 through 1990". American Journal of Public Health. 84 (12): 1982–1984. PMC 1615397 Freely accessible. PMID 7998641. doi:10.2105/AJPH.84.12.1982.

The Congressional Research Service in 2009 estimated there were 310 million firearms in the U.S., not including weapons owned by the military. Of these, 114 million were handguns, 110 million were rifles, and 86 million were shotguns.[21] In that same year, the Census bureau stated the population of people in the U.S. at 306 million.[22]
I don't think guns can help US citizens with their self defence needs.
 

Mangal

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Why are we only taking US as example for gun control laws. There are several other countries with relaxed gun control laws like canada, UK, itlay, Norway, japan, israel, Australia, Switzerland, france, Sweden among others with no such incidents. Why only take the bad examples?
 

Spindrift

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India would be the worst example where thousands get killed every month by muggers and looters / robbers who are armed with firearm ( Crude / sophisticated ) and the majority of victims have nothing more than a kitchen knife ..
Well, technically they are armed with illegal arms. As far as legally held arms are concerned they are hardly used in such crimes.
In general people with licensed weapons are quite responsible.

A recent example would be MSG incident, after the riots the police raided dera sacha sauda HQ and confiscated close to 60 licensed guns, but the point to be note here is that those guns were not used in rioting or any other activity after Ram Rahim was convicted, if his followers wanted they could have engaged in a bloodbath with the security forces and on the contrary Punjab and Haryana police commandos with government issued automatic weapons tired to help him escape, by employing the means of government issued automatic weapons.
 

Razor

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Yes, at the very least the average bloke has to have the consciousness of why gun ownership is legalized and there have to be consequences for misuse. For that law and order system has to be fixed, education is a must, judicial backlog must be cleared etc. Introducing guns into a chaotic society like present is just a recipe for disaster.
Just trying to understand what you are saying and its implications here: so would this mean Japan is a good candidate for legalising firearms for general public?
 

Project Dharma

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Just trying to understand what you are saying and its implications here: so would this mean Japan is a good candidate for legalising firearms for general public?
I'm not an expert on Japan and have never been there but I would think so based on what I hear. What do you think?
 

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meh
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A few points that may need clarification.

This is not about Indians being able to defend themselves or not. Indian constitution (probably the most lousy piece of document in the world) still could not bring itself to deny Indians that right. The right to private defence against reasonable apprehension, for self and for protection of others and once ones own home and hearth is allowed but only so long as the reasonable apprehension exists. The private defence is unlimited ie. you can kill too.

If you are inclined towards more adventurous life then please note that for most crimes in India the conviction rate is like 2%. So my advise is you can get away with murder, easily, why not use it :p.

Also while crime in India is pretty high but deflated for population and poverty it is miniscule except in certain perverted categories. In fact the whole of India knows that the conviction rate is 2% still nobody actually heeds my advise - damn. India is heaven on earth. Modi ji can testify to it. Don't forget the Venezula riots last year and Modi ji tendering anticipatory apology in Goa dated November 13, 2016.

Now that the needless is out of the way, the more pertinent question of what is reasonable in the case of private defence in USA which is the real point here.

A gent asked if I would worry about a knife or about my ordinary type somewhat wayward son. I am surprised this question is asked by an Indian to another Indian. Nearly all homes in India, all religions all castes have a kitchen and all have knives in there. Yet still no parent wants his kids handling or bearing a Rampuri chaku. Sikhs are legally allowed to bear Kripan but they as a community mind their Kripan in a very mature manner. Nearly all mountain based tribes and populations own Khukris and these are not even allowed to be borne in public, legally, still the usage is very mature and subdued. There really is no comparison here. People mind both the knives and their sons and Sunny Leone - all three are kept apart. USA does need to learn a lot.

I really fail to understand why US citizens and society tries to make it a debate on fundamental rights when it is really quite basic. Can they afford to lose 10000 lives to gun violence every year. Here are two inputs from wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States


I don't think guns can help US citizens with their self defence needs.
Again, I'm going to point out that the cat is out of the bag already in the US. There are millions of guns in the US and there are Blacks and Mexican gangs that would put some small countries armies to shame. Pretty much all the murders you cited are committed via black market weapons.

Anyway, this whole discussion is moot when the right to bear arms is written into the constitution.
 

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meh
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Also another stat that I read but am too lazy to dig up a source. If blacks and hispanics are removed from the population, gun violence stats in America approach that of European countries which are gun free. :laugh:
 

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