Land acquisition - views and perspectives

ezsasa

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Not really. There is a deep seated bias for the great idyllic village life that needs to be preserved by continuous transfers from urban areas to rural. Once everyone agrees that acquisition is needed and less people should work in agriculture, then solutions can be found. And we will ask right questions:

- How many people will be affected if we completely industrialize?
- Is that a big number?
- How many people should be employed in agriculture in the long run?
- Should there be arbitrary thresh holds like 4 times market price? etc. etc.
Right now 65% of population are dependant on agriculture, Agriculture contributes to 15% of GDP.
Assuming the target is to have equal GDP contribution of 30% each of manufacturing,services and agri with 10%buffer.

so around 700 million are dependant on farming, aim can be to reduce it to around 400 million and keep it at 30% of population in long run.

i am leaving out the market price discussion, it has been discussed alot over here at DFi.
 

Kay

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There has to be a policy planning that should encompass land-acquisition, resettlement and rehabilitation, modernizing of agriculture - this should be a policy planing only - not capital layout.
If you are thinking about building cities, industrial parks, then there needs to be a centralized policy. Land acquisition would be part of the policy. Price of land will vary from project to project - but follow a policy.
Think of it - India is a rich enough country - in this forum we discuss weapon purchases in millions of Rs. - but when in comes to giving compensation to farmers..we always acknowledge that the farmers will receive less compensation. Why is it? Would the same thing happen with literate people?
 

Kay

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The other thing would be to set up a property map , with government prices for each property.
There should be a policy of acquiring land and creating land banks for industries. Property maps should come in handy here.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Right now 65% of population are dependant on agriculture, Agriculture contributes to 15% of GDP.
Assuming the target is to have equal GDP contribution of 30% each of manufacturing,services and agri with 10%buffer.

so around 700 million are dependant on farming, aim can be to reduce it to around 400 million and keep it at 30% of population in long run.

i am leaving out the market price discussion, it has been discussed alot over here at DFi.
farming is not really lucrative. It would be inefficient even with 30% population. But nonetheless it would be a good start if we plan to reduce employment burden on agriculture.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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I guess you cannot answer these questions. Better questions would be:
1. What would be the cost of modernizing agriculture today using proven technologies?
2. How many people would we need to employ in the agricultural sector if we use these modern methods? - Then we know how many we need to resettle.
3. I guess rehabilitation is important - that is making sure that people can continue earning or have the necessary knowledge to use the money given.

All these need to be factored in during policy making.
Modern technology needs big farmsize and low employment for good productivity. We do not need to venture into that territory to debate about land acquisition.

Farmers would switch themselves to other trades once they become more lucrative as compared to agriculture.
 

ladder

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farming is not really lucrative. It would be inefficient even with 30% population. But nonetheless it would be a good start if we plan to reduce employment burden on agriculture.
Exactly the same thing was said by BJP spokesperson on Times Now. He said 50% of farmers currently in farming don't want to be in that profession. Should have seen the reaction of loud mouth Arnob and other panellists.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Exactly the same thing was said by BJP spokesperson on Times Now. He said 50% of farmers currently in farming don't want to be in that profession. Should have seen the reaction of loud mouth Arnob and other panellists.
My family is in farming as well. But everyone in my village want their kids to get some job other than farming.

But the political class and jholachaps have hijacked the whole debate.
 

Kay

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Not all farmers are literate and someone has to speak for them. And in a contentious issue like land acquisition from farmers, of-course there will be a lot of politics. Hopefully a bill is passed which helps both farmers and industry. An overall policy direction for the farming sector is helpful but not a necessity.
 

Ray

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Any person from the farm sector here, who can state the issues that the farmers find unpalatable in this Land Bill?
 

happy

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What is fair price how to know it

the time when such projects are announced or even if rumors are spread then at that moment prices of suh land increase mani-fold .May land-owner starts expecting huge amount of money for a their land---holding ..

Also then there is issue where ngos etc etc want gov to provide orignal land owner with compensation money plus provide free skills to evrybody plus jobs also.I mean how 3 things are possible
I think for the question in red, there is nothing which can truly compensate the farmers apart from giving some percentage more than the existing market value (not book value).

And the last point should be made compulsorily moot. However, the govt, may try to provide means of livelihood to those farmers in the SEZ or whatever it is planning by providing them jobs as per their eligibility and train them if necessary. After all done and dusted, whatever the govt is planning on converting agricultural land to, should not be at the cost of the farmers bread and butter.

That said, IMHO that the govt should refrain from converting agricultural land as it might have a negative affect on the entire food production life cycle and will even affect the ecology.
 

Ray

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I think for the question in red, there is nothing can truly which compensate the farmers apart from giving some percentage more than the existing market value (not book value).

And the last point should be made compulsorily moot. However, the govt, may try to provide means of livelihood to those farmers in the SEZ or whatever it is planning by providing them jobs as per their eligibility and train them if necessary. After all done and dusted, whatever the govt is planning on converting agricultural land to, should not be at the cost of the farmers bread and butter.

That said, IMHO that the govt should refrain from converting agricultural land as it might have a negative affect on the entire food production life cycle and will even affect the ecology.
Nothing is life can ever be compensated, be it money or otherwise, be it monetary compensation in the event of death in service of the country, train accident, road accident, air accident etc etc. Therefore, there is nothing that can equate as 'fair' compensation since there is no formula to equate death with money. Likewise, there is no formula per se to equate earth (land) with money. Whatever be the compensation is only perceptions based on man made deductions as to what is 'fair'.

I don't have the latest Census on farmers, but the census of 2001 indicates that of the 120 million farmers, there are 90 million who are marginal farmers in India. That in percentage is 80%.

These small holding are a challenge to the Farmers since most depend on the monsoons for irrigation and cultivation. Even areas where there is irrigation, the vagaries of nature hits them hard as is that happened with the unseasonal rain as it has happened now, forcing Sonia Gandhi, in a new avatar of Gandhi, to take her out of a Dandi March of sorts to Rajasthan and elsewhere.

Then there are unseasonal droughts and the El Nino Factor that leads to food shortages.

Therefore, it becomes essential to have good Land Management. Apart from other factors, water is one of the major inputs. That is feasible through irrigation and exploitation of ground waters. However, we have seen that over utilisation of ground waters without rain water harvesting leads to dropping of the ground water levels and thus poor yields. Punjab, once known as the 'granary of India' is a good example of over utilisation.

Or one can go for Collectivisation as was done in USSR and China, which have proved a failure since everyone's property is nobody's responsibility.

Thus the sole option remains irrigation and good rain water harvesting. Irrigation requires land to build dams, check dams, canals, distributories et al. Obviously, it, especially the canals and check dams, have to be near farm lands and hence land has to be given by the farmers, unless of course, someone tell of a better option.

Then there is a requirement to connect the farm to the markets. That requires all weather roads and highways. From where will that land come for the same? For land, maybe that of farmers, panchayat land or State land.

Then there is the issue of poverty and unemployment. If there are no jobs, skilled or unskilled, how can poverty be eliminated? The only way to do it is through factories, small and big. But it requires land. From where will that come?

Skill Development? That requires facilities where skills can be taught. From where will that come?

Therefore, a Bill to Acquiring Land with 'fair compensation' is essential.

However, to expect 80% to agree to hand over the land is a bit too optimistic to expect. Apart from genuine reasons, politics will play a role to abort it.

What better example can be Nandigram and Singur in West Bengal?

Who lost?

It can never be achieved.

If we are to progress and develop, we must think rationally and not with populist emotions that are exploited by political forces, the leaders of such forces care very little since they have already feathered their nest and are keen to remain relevant so that one day when they come to power by shedding crocodile tears for the 'poor' and the 'deprived' can go into another frenzy to feather their nests further and laugh all the way to their Swiss or other tax haven banks under assumed names and front organisations.

As far as food production is concerned, modern methods of farming has to be implemented with superior seeds and constant advice of scientists. It worked for the Green Revolution in India. Much water has flowed under the bridge since then, and have not been adopted.

In Bengal for instance, there is glut in potato production and leading to suicide. It indicates poor approach to agriculture planning. However, the State and the Central Govt are organising its export to Russia, where potato is their staple. Always waking up late till the crisis hits one.
 
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anoop_mig25

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In Bengal for instance, there is glut in potato production and leading to suicide. It indicates poor approach to agriculture planning. However, the State and the Central Govt are organising its export to Russia, where potato is their staple. Always waking up late till the crisis hits one.
Sir is there any potato chips making companies like lays in west bengal since it is glut in potato
 

Ray

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Sir is there any potato chips making companies like lays in west bengal since it is glut in potato
Yes. Much is sold for the potato chips industry.

The potatoes for Lay is think skinned and not very tasty as food.

The potato for the table are thicker skin since the taste is better. It is called 'Chandramukhi'.

West Bengal is second-largest producer of potatoes in India with an average annual output of 90 million tonnes.

The state supplies nearly 33% of the potato requirement.

Potato production has been 15 per cent higher in the state this year than in the previous one, at 110 lakh tonne. Since the neighbouring states are not picking up much from Bengal, the farmers are being forced to sell potatoes at Rs 140 for a 50 kg packet while the cost of production has been the same at Rs 250. This means, the farmers are facing a loss of Rs 110 on a 50 kg packet. Last year, the farmers had sold a 50 kg packet at Rs 300-350.
 
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happy

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Therefore, a Bill to Acquiring Land with 'fair compensation' is essential.
Sir, all said and done it again boils down to this one question...how do we decide on fair compensation?

I am limited in my practical knowledge regarding this matter.

Seeing the way AP is trying to wrest control of nearly 40,000 acres from farmers to establish a new capital I cannot help but say that it is the caste factor which is playing a vital role. Nobody is truly bothered about the rice bowl of India.

Btw, there is land which does not affect agriculture, yet.......the govt does not consider other options.
 

warrior monk

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Land acquition is important for Farmers because
1) India is an Infrastructure deficit country nearly 4 trillion dollars will have to be invested over the next 15 years
2) Agriculture in India is only 13.9 % of our GDP yet they employ 65% of the population of our country which means agriculture is not remunerative .
3) Agriculture growth is only 4 % per year and is unlikely to improve infact it might also reduce further when the country is going to grow at 9 % in future.
4) Due to base effect a 13.9 % industry growing at 4 % is like Pakistan's economy trying to catch up with India.
5) The new bill promises 4 times the market price which looks good it can be increased further.
6)Most of the farmers are small farmers or worse landless this bill gives suitable compensation to them
7) As far as food security is concerned US has only 3 % of its population in farming that is 10 million to our 700 million yet US produces more food than India. Which proves that there is a glut of farmers.
8) We have the largest area under Agriculture in the world . Our agriculture efficiency is 1/3 rd of Japan or US. Which means we can grow more food with less land with far less farmers.

If India wants to ever catch up to China in this century it needs 4 to 5 trillion dollar of infrastructure over next 15 years period otherwise we can forget our dream.
Infact we have to employ 700 million more people in Jobs over the next fifteen years otherwise we will be in BIG TROUBLE , IT will be a bigger trouble than Jihadis taking over Paki nukes . For that we need land for 100 new cities and thousands of industries so we need that bill otherwise forget Pakistan India's demography is India's biggest enemy.
 

anoop_mig25

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Sir, all said and done it again boils down to this one question...how do we decide on fair compensation?

I am limited in my practical knowledge regarding this matter.

Seeing the way AP is trying to wrest control of nearly 40,000 acres from farmers to establish a new capital I cannot help but say that it is the caste factor which is playing a vital role. Nobody is truly bothered about the rice bowl of India.

Btw, there is land which does not affect agriculture, yet.......the govt does not consider other options.
then Bring it to the notice of AP gov/AP public through tiwwete/facebook/courts/internet

By the way the said "Land" is that contigious ???????

what is advantage/disadvantge of present land beging accquired as begin promoted bu AP gov

and whats is advantage/disadvanatge of your identified Land ..

You build Internet campaign while begin anonymous
 

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