Kaveri Engine

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When u are at the verge of making on your own .....every one will come to your help.
Ask about tot for new gen SC blades,blisk,thermal barrier coating every one will just disappear as a dream.

Now it is that britan want India, rather the opposite.

After the Brexit the picture will be much better.

Anyways tot is ......good along with some assistance during beginning of making kaveri engines.French or British there should be some competition.

Britan has some good edge when it comes to engines for airlines and military transport aircraft.
drdo was looking for partner to bring kaveri to a logical end for long time.....
russian refuse....
amaricans step back...
french only agreed to help to the extent of testing the sensors under offset of 8b$ deal....

we should not be arrogent and try to sidetalk when british came up with full tot...
thats not our culture.....nothing wrong been thankfull......
 
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kunal1123

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Foreign expertise key to fire up India's jets - Indian Defence Research Wing
SOURCE : Saurav Jha / DHNS



Snecma’s help must be taken to create a Kaveri-derived engine that’s Tejas-compatible in the 90 KN category .While India has managed to create a fourth-generation jet fighter, it is yet to perfect a low-bypass turbofan (LBTF) engine that can power an aircraft of this class. Indeed, without mastering contemporary jet engine technology, India’s objective of becoming a true aerospace power will remain unfulfilled.

As such, after years of domestic effort by the Defence Research and Development Organisation’s (DRDO) Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) to develop the Kaveri LBTF engine on its own, India is now turning towards foreign handholding to modify the existing design in order to make it flightworthy.

While the current collaborative effort is limited in scope, a much bigger programme is needed to bring India up to speed in jet engine technology. It must be noted that China is investing very heavily in this domain and will likely steal a march over India if the latter does not do the same.

After some Rs 2,133 crores in expenditure and a couple of decades of development, GTRE’s Kaveri has not yet met its design goals in their entirety. As opposed to a targeted wet thrust level of 81 kilo newtons (KN), the current standard of preparation (SoP) prototypes manage 7-8% less than that figure.

SoP prototypes have achieved dry thrust goals though having demonstrated about 52 KN without afterburner. However, current Kaveri SoP prototypes are not flight capable given their tendency to stall in certain regimes, besides other reliability issues. It has been clear for a while now that foreign expertise is needed to modify the existing SoP level design to make it flightworthy.

This is precisely why the DRDO has engaged France’s Safran Aircraft Engines (Snecma) to perform a design audit on the Kaveri. At the moment, Snecma is preparing a detailed report outlining the design changes needed to create flightworthy Kaveri prototypes.

Once Snecma’s report is ready, GTRE expects to get the go-ahead for the next phase of work that will involve modifying existing SoP prototypes and testing them, with a view to creating new prototypes that can be integrated with an actual flight capable airframe. Snecma will also be a consultant for aircraft integration activities.

As it turns out, GTRE is yet to access some Rs 500 crore in funds that were approved years ago by New Delhi for aircraft integration work as part of the overall outlay for the Kaveri programme. Now that GTRE is looking to actually fly a Tejas test vehicle using a Kaveri engine, it is likely to write to the Centre to disburse this sum.

It seems GTRE will first incorporate Snecma’s recommended design changes onto three existing SoP Kaveri prototypes called K6, K8 and K9. These will be tested both on GTRE’s testbed and on a flying testbed at the Gromov Flight Research Institute in Russia.

After which, a few refined prototypes will be built that are likely to meet the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification’s (CEMILAC) reliability standards and receive certification for a limited number of flights on board a Tejas class aircraft.

One of these engines post-CEMILAC clearance will be integrated with a Tejas prototype and some 30-40 sorties will be conducted to demonstrate India’s ability to build a LBTF in the 70-80 KN class. GTRE expects to accomplish all this by Aero India 2019.

Greater thrust needed

However, an engine with this level of thrust is inadequate to power even current combat capable Tejas variants, not to mention future ones. Indeed, the Tejas MK-2 design, given its much greater maximum take-off weight will need a jet engine in the 90 KN wet thrust class.

It is felt that the work done on the Kaveri programme should be taken forward by enlisting Snecma’s help to create a Kaveri-derived engine in the 90 KN category that would be compatible with the Tejas. To be compatible with the Tejas, this engine would have to retain the dimensions of the existing Kaveri design with compressor and turbine sizes remaining unchanged.

So, the chief way in which a similar sized derivative can be uprated to 90 KN would be by having an engine core that can withstand much higher turbine entry temperatures. This, in turn, would require the core to be made up of different materials, such as next generation titanium alloys, from what make up the current Kaveri engine core called Kabini.

This undertaking will not prove cheap though. Dr K Tamilmani, former Director General of DRDO’s Aeronautics cluster, estimates that this effort may cost Rs 10,000 crores and take a decade to complete if work began now.

However, given that India is likely to import engines worth several multiples of that figure in the next 15 years or so, the expense could well be worth it, since the expertise gained could allow India to indigenise several classes of jet engines, besides delivering an indigenous LBTF for the Indian Air Force’s Tejas fleet.

Incidentally, the Chinese have already understood the critical importance of being able to design and build modern jet engines and have apparently engaged thousands of technical personnel in a multi-billion dollar effort to achieve the same.
 

HariPrasad-1

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Its interesting if we can incorporate this tech. We might increase the efficiency of our kaveri incredibly from the start itself and even it can be less noisy.
Actually the engine development is not a project but a program which always continues. Getting a workable engine is a milestone in program. We continuously fund the program and should try to get better and better engine. We are certainly at a stage where we can have atleast RD 33 sort of workable engine and we must incorporate them in Mig 29 and tejas in a big way and should relentlessly work on improving them. Program should be funded periodically to ensure that work should not hold up. We must do as many technical agreement as possible from where we can learn anything. We currently have the metallurgy which can sustain 1600*+ temperature. The key in getting engine technology is relentless pursuit of technology. I do not mind even collaborating with russia. With Russian input, we can get a workable engine. If US or Europe is ready to share technology, there is nothing like that.
 

TPFscopes

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O my god!!! I asked Vijyes before...

if at all if we purchase the rafale it should be with kaveri only.

This 200 rafales will also be a myth...max may be 50-80.we really
will not produce rafale for next 20 yrs .....rafale, a fourth gen bird is almost a sunset bird due to its high cost.

If we are producing 2000 - 3000 engines also it will be kaveri engine only with some improvement...that's with some imported parts where saffran and eurojet come into picture....

Welcome amca, a true fifth gen
France is the first country which is shifting directly to 6th Generation Jet.
Hope, you are underestimating Rafale. With DEDIRA suite , Rafale jet Gives extraordinary results of 0.00006m² of RCS. Only f-22 has better RCS than it as of now with 0.00001m².
To integrate Kaveri on Rafale is only a speculation. There is no official announcement from either side. Rafale Airframe will be used by Snecma during the test phase of KAVERI despite of Russian IL-76.

For Indo-UK joint venture for TURBOFAN Engine is not confirmed by Indian side. So, wait for some official stuff.
 

sayareakd

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we need to have our air test transport plane, we dont just need Kaveri, but whole host of engines in future, so we need to have proper infrastructure to reduce time.

We need to pump in mega $$$
 

captscooby81

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We can convert one of our IL-76 and start using it as Test aircraft for all the engine developments and also for other technologies .. I think the chinese do the same if i am not wrong ..

we need to have our air test transport plane, we dont just need Kaveri, but whole host of engines in future, so we need to have proper infrastructure to reduce time.

We need to pump in mega $$$
 

TPFscopes

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We can convert one of our IL-76 and start using it as Test aircraft for all the engine developments and also for other technologies .. I think the chinese do the same if i am not wrong ..
We can also use recently retired Tu-146m as a testbed.
 

kunal1123

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India keeps General Electric guessing on engine requirements for LCA-Tejas MK1A
3-4 minutes


SOURCE: Anand SG / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG

upload_2017-5-1_15-37-58.jpeg


Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is yet to approach American General Electric for possible supply of additional batch of F404-GE-IN20 engines to power upgraded LCA-Tejas MK1A aircraft and naval prototypes as per company officials information provided to local media.

General Electric in 2011 had bagged orders for supply of 24 F404-GE-IN20 after-burning engines to power the first operational squadron of Tejas fighter aircraft for the Indian Air Force which was follow-on order for 17 F404-GE-IN20 engines ordered in 2004 which were used on limited Series Production aircraft.

Recently IAF placed orders for 83 LCA-Tejas MK1A with HAL which will have its first flight by 2019 later followed by full-scale production from 2021. LCA-Tejas MK1A will carry similar engine generating 85-90kN thrust for its operations but it is yet to be made clear if HAL will be using F404-GE-IN20 engines or will use GTRE-SAFRAN developed Kaveri engine which according to DRDO will be ready by 2019 for installation in LCA-Tejas PV-1.

GE Aviation already has supplied Two F414-INS6 engines to power Tejas MK-II and as per contract will deliver Six more engines in next batch to India when MK-II Aircraft Variant is ready for installation. In 2013 India has completed a deal for 99 General Electric F414 engines, the power-plant for the planned Hindustan Aeronautics Tejas Mk II Light Combat Aircraft.

GE Aviation in mid 90’s also had supplied dozen older F404-F2J3 engines with lesser thrust, which were used to power Technology Demonstrator and Prototype Vehicles of LCA-Tejas which were later replaced by improved India specific F404-GE-IN20 engines.

UK defence secretary Michael Fallon last month on his visit to India had said that Britain’s engineering major Rolls Royce and DRDO have been working on developing an engine for military jets hinting at possible development of Eurojet engines but he failed to elaborate on details.

Disclaimer : Articles published under ” MY TAKE ” are articles written by Guest Writers and Opinions expressed within this article are the personal opinions of the author. IDRW.ORG is not responsible for the accuracy, completeness, suitability, or validity of any information on this article. All information is provided on an as-is basis. The information, facts or opinions appearing in the article do not reflect the views of IDRW.ORG and IDRW.ORG does not assume any responsibility or liability for the same. article is for information purposes only and not intended to constitute professional advice .
Article by Anand SG , cannot be republished Partially or Full without consent from Writer or idrw.org
Note: If you have personal opinion and want to contribute for” MY TAKE ”on Defence matters kindly email us at [email protected]
 

TPFscopes

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are you sure? If it's true, it's the open way to integrate it on, maybe only on Indian next batch Rafale.
Yup, its one of the point made by Snecma while signing the deal with GTRE. They requested it to Fastrack the developmental test phase.
But there is no official news on the integration of KAVERI GTX on IAF RAFALEs.
 

kunal1123

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Safran Offers to Co-Develop Combat Aircraft Engine with DRDO
Talks are in an advanced stage and may see a completely new engine
A FORCE Report



New Delhi: Safran Aircraft Engine (erstwhile Snecma) is in advanced talks with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) for co-development of a combat engine.
Speaking to select media on May 16, after a long discussion at DRDO, chief executive officer (CEO) Safran Aircraft Engine, Olivier Andries said that Safran has proposed development of a new combat engine to the DRDO.
As DRDO is reluctant to let go of its baby, the Kaveri engine, which remains grounded even after two decades, Andries said that Safran is open to the idea of capitalising on the development of Kaveri. In the same breath he added that, “Another starting point for development could be the M-88 engine which powers Rafale fighter aircraft.” Clearly, from Safran perspective, this would be the preferred option instead of getting into Kaveri.
“We are willing to help India develop complete autonomy in combat engines,” Andries told the media using the example of Vikas and Shakti engines, both of which are a result of Safran’s partnership and transfer of technology with ISRO and Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. Saying that the talks with the DRDO are in an advanced stage, Andries added that, “Once the programme takes off, we will look for a manufacturing partner. It could be a public or a private sector company.”

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its been more then 8 months since Rafael deal was signed and as offset 1b$ was required to be pumped into kaveri engine development......??????????????????
 

kunal1123

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this
In the same breath he added that, “Another starting point for development could be the M-88 engine which powers Rafale fighter aircraft.” Clearly, from Safran perspective, this would be the preferred option instead of getting into Kaveri.
and this
we will look for a manufacturing partner. It could be a public or a private sector company.......

what all u guys think is happening.....................
well in my option drdo is fix on kaveri and safran want m88
 

IndianHawk

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This thread burns my heart so bad:facepalm:
Of course safraan would prefer m88.

What we need is to stop buying anything before we sort out this engine mess.
No Kaveri no aircraft only then we might get our own engine. Otherwise we'll be importing engines till 2060.
 

Chirag

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this
In the same breath he added that, “Another starting point for development could be the M-88 engine which powers Rafale fighter aircraft.” Clearly, from Safran perspective, this would be the preferred option instead of getting into Kaveri.
and this
we will look for a manufacturing partner. It could be a public or a private sector company.......

what all u guys think is happening.....................
well in my option drdo is fix on kaveri and safran want m88
some private players are already waiting for this opportunity and they have also visited france many time

wait and watch
 

Filtercoffee

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If not
some private players are already waiting for this opportunity and they have also visited france many time

wait and watch
I think we have finished the Kaveri uprating in secret and want a foreign partner to join in for FT. Sadness secretly spreads with such knowledge.
 

Kay

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So, Safran wants to jointly develop a new engine based on M88 core? Can M88 be improved to give 99 KN thrust?
 

Armand2REP

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So, Safran wants to jointly develop a new engine based on M88 core? Can M88 be improved to give 99 KN thrust?
Actually this is truth. We wanted UAE to order the upgraded core but they have yet to move on it. If India gets the upgraded core in Kavari it is a win-win for both.
 
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