Kaveri Engine

[no smoking]

india too is late comer. so why are you trying to score points. the fact of the matter is both india and china do not have capability to build a modern turbofan engine as of today. period.
they have to depend on others for some time to come. but india 'cos of its respect for patent rights will have access to technology which you will not have.

Yes, but after decads of respecting patent rights, is there any country will provide you the key techonolgy. They may give you the part or some insignificant tech rather than knowhow. All these support only make you even more relying on them.

 

[badguy2000]

Yes, but after decads of respecting patent rights, is there any country will provide you the key techonolgy. They may give you the part or some insignificant tech rather than knowhow. All these support only make you even more relying on them.

in a word, real edging sophisticated tech can not bought in market..period..

 

[Vladimir79]

Yes, but after decads of respecting patent rights, is there any country will provide you the key techonolgy. They may give you the part or some insignificant tech rather than knowhow. All these support only make you even more relying on them.

There is one country that will give them technology... Russia. You know why? Because they paid for it!

 

[no smoking]

There is one country that will give them technology... Russia. You know why? Because they paid for it!

Excuse me, what kind of key tech has Russia provided to India?

 

[ReneDad]

There is one country that will give them technology... Russia. You know why? Because they paid for it!

Honestly, China is the only country which Russia or exactly Soviet once gave the technology to. If Khrushchev didn't ask China repaying all its debts in 1960s, Russia would have better opportunity asking China to pay more by now.:blum3:

Nowadays I don't think any country could buy advanced techonolgy from other countries, though I agree if any developing country which wants technology it would better go for Russian rather than American. But India can still benefit a lot from cooperating with Russia, Europe or America. If there are some Indian engineers and scientists have learnt some knowledge from these cooperative projects, it is mainly due to their own genius, not because anyone gaves them. American has "given" Iran F-14 for decades, obviously Iranian have not faked a single one yet.

 

[ReneDad]

well, guy, just for your reference

chinese R&D facilities including altitude testing beds and flight testing beds are all brandnew. they are more advanced than Russian's mossy ones and can match USA's.

the infrstructures that Chinese have been investing on are not only dazzling expressways,but also all kinds of R&D facilites.

I can be proud to declare that most of chinese R&D facilites are world class ,just as our expressways are.

China has spent 50 years to build these facilities. You could not ask Indian only spending one night to build all of them.:blum3:

How about those Su-27s China bought from Russia in 1990s? It's all about time. If China saved tens billion of dollars on Su-27 and spent them on its indigenous planes, obviously it technically is a better way to developing indigenous technology, but practically, the consequence is unaffordable. That means Taiwan may have gone.

 

[Martian]

"There is one country that will give them technology... Russia. You know why? Because they paid for it!"

Hey Vladimir, is this the tech transfer that you were talking about?

"Moscow reneging on transferring Brahmos technology"

After Russia back-pedalled on transferring technology for the production in India of the T-90 main battle tank (MBT), a hiatus seems to have emerged over transferring “total” technology for the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile that Russia is jointly developing with India.

“We have not got full technology for the transfer of the (missi¬le’s) engines,” C.G. Krishnadas Nair, a former chairman of state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), said on Jan 29 at a seminar in New Delhi that Defence Minister A.K. Antony inaugurat¬ed.

“We must have access to total technology. This denial is a seri¬ous matter,” Nair, who is the founder-chairman of the Society of Defence Technologists (SODET), maintained.

“No one should hold the other to ransom,” he contended, clearly implying that Russia was holding back the technology for the missile’s engine. See Moscow reneging on transferring Brahmos technology,Security Issues, News Analysis, India News Online

 

[Vladimir79]

well, guy, just for your reference

chinese R&D facilities including altitude testing beds and flight testing beds are all brandnew. they are more advanced than Russian's mossy ones and can match USA's.

the infrstructures that Chinese have been investing on are not only dazzling expressways,but also all kinds of R&D facilites.

I can be proud to declare that most of chinese R&D facilites are world class ,just as our expressways are.

Pfft... :stinker:

Is that why J-10 had to be sent to Russia for testing?

 

[badguy2000]

Pfft... :stinker:

Is that why J-10 had to be sent to Russia for testing?

when was J10 sent to Russia for test? could you tell me???????

:icon_salut:

 

[Vladimir79]

"There is one country that will give them technology... Russia. You know why? Because they paid for it!"

Hey Vladimir, is this the tech transfer that you were talking about?

"Moscow reneging on transferring Brahmos technology"

After Russia back-pedalled on transferring technology for the production in India of the T-90 main battle tank (MBT), a hiatus seems to have emerged over transferring “total” technology for the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile that Russia is jointly developing with India.

“We have not got full technology for the transfer of the (missi¬le’s) engines,” C.G. Krishnadas Nair, a former chairman of state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), said on Jan 29 at a seminar in New Delhi that Defence Minister A.K. Antony inaugurat¬ed.

“We must have access to total technology. This denial is a seri¬ous matter,” Nair, who is the founder-chairman of the Society of Defence Technologists (SODET), maintained.

“No one should hold the other to ransom,” he contended, clearly implying that Russia was holding back the technology for the missile’s engine. See Moscow reneging on transferring Brahmos technology,Security Issues, News Analysis, India News Online

The deal over Brahmos was each party would retain a certain part and percentage of production rights so that the future orders of missiles would provide jobs for both our countries. Engines are our domain. Software, electrical, marketing and service are yours. India is not demanding full ToT so they can break the contract, but some retired HAL executive who has no say on anything.

 

[Vladimir79]

when was j10 sent to russia for test? Could you tell me???????

:icon_salut:

2000......

 

[Vladimir79]

Excuse me, what kind of key tech has Russia provided to India?

RD-33 (3), AL-31F, T-90S, Su-30MKI, ATV, and all the goodies that are going on PAK FA.

 

[badguy2000]

2000......

pls provide link....ok?

 

[nitesh]

[mod]No more discussion on BrahMos on this thread now onwards please[/mod]

 

[Vladimir79]

pls provide link....ok?

"A number of engineers, designers and technical specialists described their visits to Chengdu and other areas of China in the 1980s. A source alleged that high-level Chengdu officials described the possession of a single Lavi prototype at one of Chengdu's facilities. They also claim that in 2000, two years after the J-10's maiden flight, aerodynamic models were sent to Russian wind tunnel testing facilities to study the J-10's aerodynamics."

Chinese J-10 'benefited from the Lavi project' - Jane's Defence News

 

[p2prada]

Excuse me, what kind of key tech has Russia provided to India?

Upgraded AL-31FPs are to be made completely from scratch in India itself. This is to make us self reliant in aircraft maintenance. ToT has been provided to India on the engine and the Su-30MKI. Plus, more aded advantages as posted below.

HAL to supply components for Sukhoi fighters to Russia

Zhukovski: The Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) will supply components to Russia for its Sukhoi range of combat jets for export to third countries, even as India's premier aviation giant prepares to roll out the first fully indigenous Su-30MKI multi-role fighter next year.

India and Russia are expected to sign an inter- governmental agreement on supply on components by the end of this year, a top HAL executive has said.

"We are already supplying navigation and communication equipment for installation on the Su-30MK series of fighters exported by Russia to other countries," GM of HAL's Nasik based Aircraft Manufacturing Division, V Balakrishnan said on sidelines of the International Aerospace Show-MAKS-2009.

The new agreement would provide for expanding the inventory to include the supply of airframe components for the multi-role jets to be exported by Russia, he said.

Russia has supplied Su-30MK series fighters to Malaysia and Indonesia and there are plans to export this powerful weapons platform to Algeria and Venezuela, media reports said.

"Next year HAL will achieve 100 per cent indigenisation of the Sukhoi aircraft - from the production of raw materials to the final plane assembly. We're currently testing the locally produced engine for Su-30MKI and are planning to launch its production in 2010," Balakrishnan said.

"HAL will manufacture 60 Su-30MKI fighters in the full production cycle till 2015," Balakrishnan said.

The aerospace company has a long history of cooperation with Russian aviation industry since it started licensed production of MiG-21 fighters in 1960s, the best combat jet of the Cold War-era. It is now involved in the production of Su-30MKI, believed to be the world's best in its class.

HAL's stall at the MAKS-2009 was inaugurated by Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin here.

The IAF is acquiring a total of 230 Su-30MKI multi-role jets by 2015, tailor-made to meet its requirements over next two decades. Under the Sukhoi deal HAL is to produce 140 jets under license involving 'deep' transfer of technology.

The work began in 2004 with the assembly of knockdown kits provided by Irkut Aircraft Corporation, now part of the United
Aircraft Corporation (UAC).

Any more Questions?

 

[SATISH]

Why discuss Russia-China relations in a Kaveri engine thread?

 

[ReneDad]

The indigenous Kaveri aircraft engine, soon to make its debut flight, lacks the muscle needed by India’s Tejas light combat aircraft, which the engine was designed to power. In its present form, the Kaveri will never power a modern fighter.

But the engine’s technology — developed by the Defence R&D Organisation, over two decades, at a cost of Rs 3000 crore — will not be wasted. The Indian Navy is snapping up the Kaveri for powering its growing fleet of warships.

Most critisers of Kaveri are too concentrated on its technical details, such as lower thrust, higher weight, the cost and the delayed maiden flight, etc. They don't realize how much India has gained and has achieved from the project. The fact is India now has a team of engineers being able to develope indigenous advanced turbofan engines, that's important.

If Indian people, government and air force continue to support the project, the engineers will have the opportunity to improve their ability and skills via improving the engine, and I have no doubt they will do better in the next project because the experience has been accumulated.

If India doesn't give the engine a chance fitting on the plane to fly, just becasue it can not match the American one, the all effort India has made, and of course Rs 3000 crore India has invested in the project will be in vain.

 

[Sabir]

Well, if the client is not satisfied commercial production is not possible. But they must be supported for building the prototypes (whatever number is required) to achieve the objective.

Before mentioning failure in two decades etc one should remember America, Russia do not build modern engine from thin air. Dont say they complete a project in five years, because they have fifty-sixty years of experience behind that five years.

Regards,

 

[A chauhan]

RD-33 (3), AL-31F, T-90S, Su-30MKI, ATV, and all the goodies that are going on PAK FA.

Well it is clear that India will be working only on final stages & basically provide money, because PAK FA development is already about to complete by Russia, we r going to join Russia now .India will only alter PAK FA according to IAF requirements and do some further upgrades relating radar etc. to have her own FGFA. We have already missed the design phase.