Kaveri Engine

[BON PLAN]

Will you please share the data to back your statement.
I already shared the snapshot of magazine which has interview of SAFRAN's CEO. You can find that on previous pages.

From the beginning of the M88 project, there was 3 levels of thrust in the pipe :
75Kn, 90Kn, 105Kn. The first is on Rafale, The second was revived for UAE "super" Rafale near 2011, but stopped. The later is so far a paper concept.

 

[BON PLAN]

Can't Safran reverse engineer EJ2000? Since they already have the technology of critical components, the other components can be reverse engineered right?

Why ?
EJ2000 use the same concept than the older Snecma M53.
In this case Safran"just" has to study a M53 with M88 materials...

Problem is that M53 and EJ2000 definition are tailor made for high mach and high altitude. And recent conflict and more powerfull missiles don't need such engine. It's better now to have a more polyvalent engine, able to reach mach 2 and efficient in high subsonic low altitude raids.

 

[BON PLAN]

it is EJ 200 .

and they upgrade the manufacturing process of Engines to Improve efficiency so it is not an older generation Engine .

Ej 200 is one of the best Engines in the world with extremely good thrust to weight ratio and Good life ..............and it did not reach it's maximum capacity , there are other Engines too with Higher thrust , different core same technology .......like Ej 230 .

Yes, it has a very good T/W ratio.
It is made for the Eurofighter role : cruising in high speed at high altitude (like M53 of Mirage 2000). Is it the Tejas mission? not really.

 

[Vijyes]

Yes, it has a very good T/W ratio.
It is made for the Eurofighter role : cruising in high speed at high altitude (like M53 of Mirage 2000). Is it the Tejas mission? not really.

High speed at high altitude is mainly used for air superiority fighter jets. Are you saying that Eurojet Typhoon is not meant for ground bombardment, carpet bombing missions?

Tejas is a multirole fighter for both air super

 

[BON PLAN]

High speed at high altitude is mainly used for air superiority fighter jets. Are you saying that Eurojet Typhoon is not meant for ground bombardment, carpet bombing missions?

Tejas is a multirole fighter for both air super

Sure Typhoon is not designed for Air to Ground mission !
Eurofighter added some AtoG configurations later, to fulfill export needs.

some proofs :
- Just see where the laser designator is put : under the frame, taking the space of a very usefull external tank...

- See also the capacity of the external tanks : 1500 liters max. These tanks are supersonic ones only, made for high speed, where a rafale can carry 13 x 200 supersonic or 3 x 2000 subsonic liters tanks depending of the mission and a laser pod.
- The FBW system of Typhoon seemed to be in trouble in some AtoG config, because the center of gravity changed a lot versus the initial Air to Air config only.
- The load capacity of Typhoon is not impressive, despite being heavier than rafale for exemple. It's just that it wasn't designed for that.

 

[Kchontha]

M88 turbofan engine can be uprated from the present 75 Kn to 110 Kn with the same core. Even at the present thrust level 2 m88 engine make Rafale supercruise at mac 1.4. Therefore safranised kaberi will be having enough thrust to power amca or Tejas mk2. Apart from 1 billion offset for rafale deal safran/Snecma might have also be awared of amount of business involves in turbofan engine requirement of india in the future.

 

[Vijyes]

M88 turbofan engine can be uprated from the present 75 Kn to 110 Kn with the same core. Even at the present thrust level 2 m88 engine make Rafale supercruise at mac 1.4. Therefore safranised kaberi will be having enough thrust to power amca or Tejas mk2. Apart from 1 billion offset for rafale deal safran/Snecma might have also be awared of amount of business involves in turbofan engine requirement of india in the future.

What is Safranised Kaveri? Will India ever make its own engine or will it be imported engine that will require 'critical' components from France? Why will that be any different than our IL31 engine made in HAL?

 

[TPFscopes]

What is Safranised Kaveri? Will India ever make its own engine or will it be imported engine that will require 'critical' components from France? Why will that be any different than our IL31 engine made in HAL?

1. What is IL-31 ? please put some light on it.
2. The recent success is HTFE-25 which will lead to HTFE-40 by GTRE. They also developed a MANIK Turbofan Engine for cruise missiles.
3. SAFRAN have to share the technology that is used in KAVERI GTX.
4. SAFRANised Kaveri is the term given by its fan following.

 

[airtel]

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[TPFscopes]

View attachment 18808 .

When DRDO Chief share such words?

 

[BON PLAN]

M88 turbofan engine can be uprated from the present 75 Kn to 110 Kn with the same core. Even at the present thrust level 2 m88 engine make Rafale supercruise at mac 1.4. Therefore safranised kaberi will be having enough thrust to power amca or Tejas mk2. Apart from 1 billion offset for rafale deal safran/Snecma might have also be awared of amount of business involves in turbofan engine requirement of india in the future.

I'm not sure it's the same core ! What is certain is that for each thrust the overall diameter of each increase a little bit.

 

[BON PLAN]

What is Safranised Kaveri? Will India ever make its own engine or will it be imported engine that will require 'critical' components from France? Why will that be any different than our IL31 engine made in HAL?

I think Safran is working on two versions :
1) using the Indian technology (ie your own metallurgy, own machining process...).
2) using the Safran technology (more advanced blade mono crystal alloy, new machining process, new FADEC? composite ?...). In this case it's unlikelly we will givee you know-how... you will have to purchase these components to Safran from France.

 

[BON PLAN]

1. What is IL-31 ? please put some light on it.
2. The recent success is HTFE-25 which will lead to HTFE-40 by GTRE. They also developed a MANIK Turbofan Engine for cruise missiles.
3. SAFRAN have to share the technology that is used in KAVERI GTX.
4. SAFRANised Kaveri is the term given by its fan following.

AL31 is the engine of Su30.
Safran will share the technology that make Indian Kaveri air worthy. Not those of an hypothetical Kaveri using M88 technology...

 

[Vijyes]

1. What is IL-31 ? please put some light on it.
2. The recent success is HTFE-25 which will lead to HTFE-40 by GTRE. They also developed a MANIK Turbofan Engine for cruise missiles.
3. SAFRAN have to share the technology that is used in KAVERI GTX.
4. SAFRANised Kaveri is the term given by its fan following.

I am so sorry. 1 spelling mistake and you got so upset? How can I ask your forgiveness for such a great crime of mistyping AL31 as IL31! BoooHoooo

 

[BON PLAN]

View attachment 18808
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??? Strange.
Or the modified M88 core will be modified so as to use indian technology (metallurgy mainly)
Or Safran will deliver you the modified M88 core with french metallurgy directly from france.

But I don't see we will give you the M88 technology so as to make yourself your new core. It's far too sensible and it is a key tecnology for the futur. 36 or enven 72 Rafale are not enough to do so. But it's only my little opinion.

 

[Vijyes]

I think Safran is working on two versions :
1) using the Indian technology (ie your own metallurgy, own machining process...).
2) using the Safran technology (more advanced blade mono crystal alloy, new machining process, new FADEC? composite ?...). In this case it's unlikelly we will givee you know-how... you will have to purchase these components to Safran from France.

India will never take foreign FADEC or software for its military use. That is ruled out. The two critical things India needs are - Single crystal alloy and powder metallurgy for Blisk.

I am not sure how advanced India has become in these two requirements. I have heard of reports of SC blades being made in India. If the technology is close enough for perfection, France may grasp the opportunity to do business by helping reduce the number of years needed to perfect it

 

[TPFscopes]

I am so sorry. 1 spelling mistake and you got so upset? How can I ask your forgiveness for such a great crime of mistyping AL31 as IL31! BoooHoooo

That typo changed the whole meaning by the way...

 

[TPFscopes]

??? Strange.
Or the modified M88 core will be modified so as to use indian technology (metallurgy mainly)
Or Safran will deliver you the modified M88 core with french metallurgy directly from france.

But I don't see we will give you the M88 technology so as to make yourself your new core. It's far too sensible and it is a key tecnology for the futur. 36 or enven 72 Rafale are not enough to do so. But it's only my little opinion.

This news has no credible source.

 

[Kchontha]

What is Safranised Kaveri? Will India ever make its own engine or will it be imported engine that will require 'critical' components from France? Why will that be any different than our IL31 engine made in HAL?

Safran/Snecma has asked GTRE/drdo for collaboration for uprating m88 engine by mating its core with Kaveri engine, this unnamed turbofan engine is dubbed as safranised Kaveri. Turbofan engine making is a complex technology hard to master; that's why very few nations enjoyed monopoly. India has a long way to go in this regard because of lack of fund and R&D. No engine called as IL31 is made by hal.

 

[BON PLAN]

Safran/Snecma has asked GTRE/drdo for collaboration for uprating m88 engine by mating its core with Kaveri engine, this unnamed turbofan engine is dubbed as safranised Kaveri. Turbofan engine making is a complex technology hard to master; that's why very few nations enjoyed monopoly. India has a long way to go in this regard because of lack of fund and R&D. No engine called as IL31 is made by hal.

I don't think so.
Safranized Kaveri is mainly your Kaveri (with your blades, your metal parts,...)but with the pince of salt of Safran engeneer to make it run at all altitudes and all regimes.

To produce a wealthy engine is a kind of alchimy : you can't find all in the books or with mathematical formulas. You need some inspiration, and you need to make some mistakes before so as to learn from them.

India wanted to produce its own high performance engine was a highly difficult task. Better to begun with gas turbine for ships for exemple.