Journalism at its worst - attempts to defame DRDO

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by power_monger, Nov 17, 2014.

  1. power_monger

    power_monger Regular Member

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    I would like to use this thread to highlight those who claim to be journalist and often try to defame DRDO's efforts for reasons unknown.I would like members to add to this thread so that it could educate people who blindly trust journalism who keep blabbering against DRDO with ill-intentions.Please note that this link is of 2008.But i still see lot of such articles which i would like to add it to this thread and highlight it.To start with this is the link.

    Article : The Truth about the Rohini radar (from Prasun K Sengupta)

    This article mentioned about how Prasun K sengupta a noted defense journalist revealed the truth about DRDO buying Polish radar and claiming its own.Finally a employee of LRDE had to write comments on the efforts of DRDO and BEL.

    The article starts with

    FORCE Magazine/Tempur defence writer Prasun K Sengupta wrote in a few days ago to say, "Before DRDO and BEL take us all to Cloud 9 regarding the Rohini and Revathi 3-D radars, Rohini and Revathi 3-D radars are derivatives of the Polish TRS-19 radar, developed by Poland's Przemyslowly Instytut Telekomunikacji SA. What the DRDO has done in fact is buy all the IPRs and manufacturing licences from the two Polish companies. I had written about this way back in late 2006."

    This argument was rebuffed by Ravi an employee of LRDE.I have highlighted his comments below.

    Hi Shiv,

    Prasun has been barking up the wrong tree for a long while and his claims are an absolute farce.

    PIT didnt provide any technology "buy out" for LRDE to avail of.

    The LRDE actually ran a phased array project called Project Vajra, ask any of us at LRDE for details, and that led to the CAR project.

    DRDO was aware of PITs radar work and asked if they were interested in taking project Vajra further. The aim was to now take the phased array project and make a Planar array radar with a brand new array that would be lighter. PIT showed their own work in this regard and agreed, they had been tapped by the Polish Govt to develop a new series of radars as well.

    The joint effort of both organizations was the the 3D CAR for DRDO, and the TRS-19 for Poland.

    Both radars are different, and use different signal processing units.

    The item common to both radars is the basic design of the planar array antenna, which scans (electronically) in elevation, and rotates for azimuth coverage.

    PIT has not developed the TRS-19 further, but have concentrated on other derivatives for long range theater coverage.

    PIT also ran a tender for its own separate maritime surveillance project, and purchased LRDE's antennas (slotted array) for the same.

    In India, DRDO developed the 3D CAR into the Rohini. For this radar, Astra Microwave and DRDO developed new microwave components and L&T was roped in for a new rotational assembly, for the radar to make it sufficiently compact for IAF usage. The signal processing and radar data processing was designed and developed by a team led by the Late Dr Radhakrishnan of LRDE, and Dr Cleetus (ex head, LRDE). The Rohini and Revathi are completely DRDO's babies, they in fact, dont even use the original planar array developed with PIT, but a brand new one able to handle increased power, as well as an all new digital beamformer.

    The Revathi in fact, is even more sophisticated. It uses a completely de novo bi axis stabilisation system again developed by the DRDO in specific for the Navy. This is because the Revathi is intended for the Navy, and needs to be stabilised.

    Reading some of the responses above, and your uncritical acceptance of the bilge that Prasun writes, is saddening.

    For one, give credit where credit is due.

    The Rohini is an all Indian radar developed by the DRDO, with extensive time consuming involvement by the Indian Air Force, the user. It is no off the shelf import, knocked together as license assembly under fancy terms of import of technology or technology buyout.

    For more details about the DRDO's radar technology, please do look at the DRDO techfocus about the same.

    Prasun is habitually unreliable when it comes to talking about the DRDO or for that matter about most matters relating to Indian defence.

    Case in point, please ask him for any corroborative proof about the absolute nonsense he wrote about India corroborating with Taiwan for ramjet based missiles, and for all the hoopla about India making all sorts of fancy weapons. In his latest article, he went so far as to call the BEL WLR an active phased array radar. The man does not even know the difference between a PESA and an AESA, the former of which the Rajendra based WLR is!

    Each of his articles is actually different in "Facts" from the other, merely inventing stuff on the fly to impress a not too critical audience.

    Most defence professionals have long got used to these incredibly jingoistic and nonsensical claims from Tempur. Unfortunately, Force continues to carry them without due investigation.

    - Ravi
     
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  3. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    Some of these so called journalists work for the arms merchant's interest and harp their views. Ask them and they will swear by that their information as correct. In fact to back up their absurd claims, the journalists do hire a disgruntled employee and use him as cover for their story. Take all the information provided with grain of salt.
     
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  4. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    Contrary cases are also as true. There are many or rather most amongst the journalist who do uncritical bidding for DRDO ...

    DRDO and their scientists are more media savy than ?????? Till yesterday they were singing about Kaveri....

    Prasun for one does good reporting rather than singing glories of DRDO claims. The Comments of Ravi above do acknowledge the joint project between DRDO and Polish company and both using derivatives... so what is wrong with what Prasun wrote... a journalist is one who is critical


    Prasun though is DRDO darling :rofl:
     
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  5. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The problem with DRDO is they claim to bring the Moon to Earth and then come up with a Lemon.

    It matters not what some journalists write, it is those who have to wait for years and then are given the lemon who are actually complaining.

    Even Modi has pulled them up and surely he is not a arm's agent.
     
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  6. power_monger

    power_monger Regular Member

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    Fine DRDO has delivered lemons.Still it does not warrant baseless articles by journalist.
     
  7. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Actually, one cannot call either side of the fence's statement as baseless.

    Both sides tend to exaggerate i.e. media as also the DRDO.

    There are many examples of DRDO doing reverse engineering and calling it their own and original.
     
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  8. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

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    @Ray, reverse engineering is part of the game. Other countries go all the way to steal information. India has not done so.

    Joint projects with other countries is a very normal practice. If the IPR is shared, then India is free to develop that technology further.

    The point is this radar was not imported from Poland. It was domestically built. It does not matter what is the origin of technology.

    I agree that DRDO may not have delivered to the timeline or to the specs. I have painstakingly explained in multiple posts that DRDO does not have a magic wand. There is a pool of scientific resources that DRDO is using. Country's technological base is insufficient in many defence items, and technological base itself has to be built. DRDO does not have power to change the whole country.

    The Services have been quite unreasonable in their expectations of DRDO. The government has been blind and just a file pusher. Nobody has taken viable decisions.
     
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  9. power_monger

    power_monger Regular Member

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    Reverse Engineer to learn know how is a common thing every where.But are the systems reverse engineered to replicate the original system or knowledge is used to build a new system all together? I do not think that DRDO has done duplication of products as its reputation to respect IP laws is acknowledged globally. Can you throw me one article which blames DRDO of violating IP laws?
     
  10. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    I am aware that reverse engineering can build a product.

    Throw in some cosmetic changes and viola! You claim it as an original!

    IP Laws?

    Just check how it is violated all over the world.

    Check cryogenic engine.
     
  11. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The problem is that you have not been associated with the process of acquisition of hardware for the defence.

    That is why you cannot understand the problem.

    Let me try to explain in as simple a way as I can.

    The adversary is not going to wait for you to modernise your forces to match or beat his military machines.

    Therefore, there is a need to have matching machinery.

    But then that is living in the current time slot and even that is important too.

    Through various agencies, one can come to know the planned strategy and acquisitions of the adversary for a distant future.

    Therefore, one has to be ready for that time slot also.

    Given the adversaries futurist strategy, tactics, and acquisition, one builds up his requirements for the current and the distant time slot.

    The current void can be filled up with foreign acquisitions, but the distant future acquisitions are planned and given to the DRDO which, in case you did not know, enthusiastically endorse as doable and also claim they will deliver more that required.

    Funds, foreign equipment that can help in designing etc are given.

    The DRDO starts work.

    Trials are done as and when the prototypes are made after years of toil. The shortcomings are informed and DRDO gets to work again.

    The distant future arrives and DRDO still has not come up with the answer.

    Catch 22.

    DRDO promises it will be there......anytime now!

    So, the wait. And in the meantime the adversary has gone one step ahead.

    The military gets worried. It cannot leave its troops to chance and lose lives and in case there is a war, the battles.

    The Govt too is worried since losing a war would mean the end of that political regime and the political party.

    They go for foreign acquisition that come closest to match the adversary.

    Crooked folks find the panic ideal to dip their hand in the till and may hay while the sun shines.

    The thieving is discovered.

    The firms are blacklisted and re-tendering is ordered.

    More trials.

    And in the meantime, DRDO worried that the cash cow Project is slipping out of their hands, promises a greater Moon than what they are delivering.

    More Catch 22 and delays.

    The military continues to have the yawning void while all are busy staking out their share.

    And when you have a Minister like Antony who only cares for himself, the country goes back 10 years, while the adversary leaps ahead.

    And the DRDO get more funds and continues to give no results.

    That apart, heard of the TATRA trucks? Great vehicle. Money poured in for modernisation, but then where was the modernisation even though the money got used. Used where?

    While there is no doubt that there is some hanky panky, yet the CBI closed the case as 'no evidence was found'.

    How can evidence be found if you have chaps who head the CBI told lo lay off (2G) by the Supreme Court for finding that there is good reasons to tell the CBI boos to 'recuse' himself.

    So, that is how the pennies fall.
     
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  12. power_monger

    power_monger Regular Member

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    Ray,

    This argument can go on. DRDO has given us Agni missile series and ABM systems which no other country could have given.give credit where it is due. Complain when it is required. Mixing up things won't help anyoine.
     
  13. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

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    @Ray, I have seen this discussion for last 15 years with amusement. In my view, the primary constraint is not DRDO but public sector DPSUs. If India allowed private companies to build weapons, then a much better industrial infrastructure would have been created in the country.

    All our successes in space sector and defence sector are in projects where private industry has been involved extensively. Even our SSBN is ready now due to work of L&T.

    It is all about efficiency and commitment. Just as our soldiers are expected to do their job, other citizens must also have the same standards.

    DRDO may have been wrong on many counts, but it is the products developed by DRDO that will make the difference in the next war. DRDO is as critical as army or air force. The reason is when DRDO develops a product, it also develops a whole industry with it. The knowledge base created in the country helps in further development of local technology.

    This is the reason I want DRDO projects to be executed with private companies exclusively. Let the fabrication be done by a major private player (for example Tata) in aero-engine project. There should be extensive collaboration between DRDO and private industrial companies.

    The services are guilty of ignoring locally made products. Even when suitable products are available, army has been ignoring. I have already written about that. Your argument about sincerity of army and air force are invalid.
     
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  14. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    And when you compare DRDO with ISRO, you can't but want this white elephant gone.
     
  15. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

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    No. ISRO is no different from DRDO. ISRO does not have Services breathing down its neck.
    DRDO has also done a lot for this country.
     
  16. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    http://fas.org/irp/threat/missile/rumsfeld/pt2_solok.htm
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2014
  17. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    @Ray sir, what matters is the end result irresp. DRDO on this count has failed time and again.

    @sgarg Undoubtedly there have been few success but look at the long list of failures, and the time, effort and money that was poured in. And at the end of the day they end up buying foreign products.
     
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  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Like what?

    Being patriot is one thing and being pragmatic is another.
     
  19. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

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    @Ray, China has sent students on government expense to USA for a very long time, with the sole purpose of learning and then return to China to build local factories.

    None of that has ever happened in India. India spent money on BTech, these engineers went to USA and never returned.

    ISRO and DRDO have been built by those engineers who did not fall into the trap of money. I agree some of these engineers and scientists may be mediocre but there are some brilliant ones too.

    An army officer told me sometime back that army officers are basically mediocre (intellectually).

    The best children of this country rarely become army officers. A question has to be asked why?

    The military affects everything in this country including the industry. Its thinking and character molds the thinking and character of the nation.

    It is not only about war and about matching weapons Pakistan or China has. The game is much bigger than that.
     
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  20. TrueSpirit1

    TrueSpirit1 The Nobody Banned

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    Nice to know that you have formally ventured in the "arms business" & have developed "vested interests" that see DRDO as a perennial inconvenience :thumb:

    :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
     
  21. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

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    There are a number of technologies which are not easily available from foreign sources. I hope you know that every weapons sale is a political deal. When somebody sells you something which you cannot make, it always comes with conditions attached. The West typically rushes to supply an item where DRDO is close to success, just to ensure that a local industry is not developed for the item.

    None of the missiles that India has today could have been imported. But missiles are not the only example.
    Even a simple item like a rifle. You are unhappy with INSAS, you can go for imported one. But you know that you have INSAS as fallback in case the import is blocked.
     

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